[CP1.1] Makoto Nanaya's Gameplay Discussion - When's 2.0?

[Chaoschao222]

She's still fine. Not good, but fine. Sure she still doesn't have karakusa, but she's still enjoyable and these minor changes won't change that.

[Kev-Ab]

Those changes are too neutral, I wanted some noticeable buffs, maybe buffing some prorates or making something faster. I'm confused.

I'm sure that 6B ground bounce can be a really good change, but I don't think it will help her in what she lacks, or against her worst matchups.

About CT no one's probably going to notice it.

But, I'm afraid of the jB change, I hope it's barely noticeable.

Also, what Ragnarok_F4 says is true, She isn't bad, she is mid that's a progress from Extend.

I think the problem is that top tiers have too many tools agaisnt everyone and we have too few against them.

[Ried]

It's okay CT. I'll mourn your nerfing, if no one else will.

RIP to the totally practical and very essential Parry RC CT OD, unburstable taunt into 7k combos. Can't let a squirrel have too much fun now, can you.

The j.B nerf sounds like a legitimately unfortunate one though, and I guess how useful the 6B thing will be is still unknown; could potentially open up some new and interesting routes, but why Makoto of all characters is getting more nerfs than buffs...lol.

[StarGazer]

We already know that this patch goal is to fix console characters. So you guys shouldn't be excepting any nerfs or buffs for Makoto. What we got here was simple changes to make the game more fresh.

[Yazumatto]

I think I'm done despairing for now so let's try and look at things from an "it could be worse" perspective.

- her basic gameplan hasn't changed overall; she's more or less the same

- most of her matchups haven't changed for the most part

- other characters got nerfs too which can increase your survivability

- her backdash was average at best; the system change doesn't really affect her when looking at the surface

- she still looks the same (your mileage may vary)

Her quality of life still sucks but if you're used to it, CP1.5 is more of the same so there's that. On the off-chance that the new 6B and the new j.B gatling is a positive game-changer, those can be new things to play with. You could also change characters and hope that other people in Japan do the same so management can see there's something wrong. They'll respond with either:

- noticeable buffs/positive moveset overhaul

- she gets put out of her misery in the CP2 storyline to further develop Noel/Tsubaki as characters (don't think Mori won't do it) and remove her from the roster

(Yes, the last thing is technically a positive for the poor girl at this point. It also means you can see how bad of a designer Mori really is and you can devote your time to P4A2 and GGXrd instead )

[Dark Ranger88]

If they look at character performance in Japanese tournaments/Dan Ranking/etc when balancing a character then Goro playing Makoto might actually be the worst thing for us.

They probably look at Makoto and think, "These handful of players can do well with her, so we don't really need to changer her that much. Hell, look what Goro is doing to people. She might even need nerfs."

[Yazumatto]

That's wrong, otherwise Tao, Valk, Hazama and the like would share the same bottom-tier projects apartment building Makoto is living in right now. It might be wishful thinking but even I don't think ArcSys is dumb enough to think that one person having success with a character means she should receive nerfs.

In any case, Goro said that he has life commitments now (he got married, iirc) so I doubt he'll be playing. Even if he plays, I don't think he'll stick with her for a third game in a row with her being bottom 1.

[Appledash-]

I really hope they don't use Goro for balancing. (Goro is op, not Makoto) Even if they did, it doesn't make sense. Look at what mitsurugi does to people with hazama, or fenrich and tetsuwo playing Jin.

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[Chaoschao222]

今日JAEPOで触ってみたけどJB＞JDがかなり繋がりづらかったわ安定させるなら別ルート考えたほうがいいかもしれないあと挑発でどんぐり投げるモーション追加されてたぞ１ラウンドに１回なのかしらんが連続で投げることはできなかったけど

I knew playing Unlimiteds would get me far in life.

Also, according to your pal, who cares about things besides Victory Acorn, word is the j.B nerf is pretty bad.

[StarGazer]

Welp.

Any words about 6B?

[Yazumatto]

How bad is it? Does the new gatling not even compensate for it at this point?

Can't say I'm surprised.

[Dark Ranger88]

I'm confused Chao. Are we getting a new Acorn move? I Google translated, but now I'm even more confused.

[Chaoschao222]

How bad is it? Does the new gatling not even compensate for it at this point?

Can't say I'm surprised.

I only skimmed and heard TL's from Hiago, but I could see a few people complaining about the gatling itself being hard, and it may be possible that j.B > jcOD > DP is a no-go in most situations.

I'm confused Chao. Are we getting a new Acorn move? I Google translated, but now I'm even more confused.

If jbbs is to be trusted, Makoto's taunt has changed to Unlimited 5AC, aka Victory Acorn, aka lob an acorn in the air with a perk-filled bounce.

[Yazumatto]

Victory Acorn as the new taunt would be a nice thing to have in a vortex of despair.

I'm not getting hype for it since it's jbbs and they're a bunch of trolls but if there's proof, I can at least be slightly amused for a few seconds.

God I hope someone figures out how to use j.B in combos again.

[StarGazer]

Victory Acorn for Un-Unlimited Makoto? Gods are full of mercy, we don't deserve such an amazing gift

[Yazumatto]

Hey.

HEY.

There's no confirmation yet. For the love of god, don't get your hopes up yet. We don't even know if the acorn has a hitbox yet or if it can be usable. Mourn the loss of j.B first before we get confirmation. :/

[Ragnarok_F4]

Remember that this is a loktest. The could make some final adjustments later, before its release. So with that nerf, they only changed some combo routes. Makoto's OD is quite good, she's one of those chars that overuses it and wins with it. Maybe that's the thing they wanted to nerf with the jB change, similar to Haku's air grab > OD nerf?

[Yazumatto]

Overused? You can't be serious right? It's just decent at closing out games. There's nothing abusable about it like Litchi's or Hakumen's. Plus, her overdrive damage is merely adequate compared to many others that can poop out 7k-8k without trying.

[OmnixTSC]

Coming from someone that plays Hakumen and Makoto side-by-side, I can honestly say that Makoto's OD usage is laughable in comparison. Is it bad? Not by any means. But the reward off it isn't nearly as good as it is for some of the other characters.

I'm sure we'll be fine in the update. I already have some ideas for 6B if it works the way I think it will.

[StarGazer]

Its hard to believe that Victory Acorn is going to be true. Its not even mentioned in the official changes.

Makoto OD is good, not awful, not great, good.

Now i would really appreciate it if you guys could stop with the 'she is going to be fine' thing as if we don't know. Its pretty stupid to read ten pages of the same useless post. We've been through worse so its pretty ok, actually the low tier hero thing is the only motivation left to play this character as she is horribly boring now with almost no learning curve to reward you for playing her

The only thing we should be mad of is how ASW made Makoto from one of the most unique characters into this empty plain shell, words can never express how stupid were the changes to Makoto with each game. Seriously thinking about it makes me think that ASW wants to remove her or just don't care about her anymore. Only a big rework could save her now which is why i had no hope for this small patch.

Remember that this is a loktest. The could make some final adjustments later, before its release. So with that nerf, they only changed some combo routes. Makoto's OD is quite good, she's one of those chars that overuses it and wins with it. Maybe that's the thing they wanted to nerf with the jB change, similar to Haku's air grab > OD nerf?

I don't think loketest changes get to be posted on the official site, hope im mistaken.

[HiagoX]

what the fuck is going on

[Yazumatto]

the third great depression happened

[Dark Ranger88]

Acorn oki when? Acorn pressure how? Zoning out Mu/Lambda with Acorns?

5D > Acorn > Big Bang Smash?????????????

[Teutonicknight]

Don't count on it just yet, because that's almost too good to be true. But if it is, holy crap, that'd be a godsend.

[Chaoschao222]

Acorn oki when? Acorn pressure how? Zoning out Mu/Lambda with Acorns?

5D > Acorn > Big Bang Smash?????????????

Last I looked, nobody else was talking about this, which seems odd if it really was changed. The only +1 hope to that situation is that people don't taunt that often.

However, even if Victory Acorn is true, it won't be used for pressure. The startup is too slow, so even in a best case scenario where the opponent is forced to trade, given acorn does 1 damage, the trade is not in your favor.

Acorn could be used for oki, but as you'd imagine it kills proration pretty bad, so you'd want the acorn itself to not connect.

Acorn won't zone anybody unless they absolutely refuse to move.

in general, acorn combos are exclusively for being a gigantic asshole with really, really good starters in great positions.

今日マコト触ってきたので

・6Bのバウンド

バウンドはマコトの頭ぐらいまで跳ねる

6B＞ルナ＞スター はいる

6B＞コメット はいらなかった

6B〆は空中で受け身とられる

・挑発

どんぐりは攻撃判定があって1ダメージ、発動条件はわからなかった

・ガトのJBJD

6A＞JB＞JD3

みたいなコンボの前半なら簡単に繋がった

・J攻撃始動のダメージについて

JC＞5B＞5CC＞2D2＞5B＞6A＞2D3＞2C＞アステB＞JC＞JB＞着地＞JB＞JD3

JD3が青くて2500くらい

・ちなみに

6A＞JB＞jc＞生OD＞コロナ

が繋がった

こんな感じでした

I can only understand about half of this, but there's a lot of stuff there.

Also a few more people have mentioned comments or questions about j.B being butt and acorn taunt.