[CP] Izayoi Gameplay Discussion - Tobe! Gandamu!

[Angel-tastic]

Fair enough, but in any case it's good that they're "fixing" the issue. 5Bs hurtbox is certainly a nuisance as it is now.

[crimsonstardust]

Just how far is her hurtbox extended with 5B? Cause I'm really glad that's getting changed...

[Rhannmah]

right up to the tip of the sword/spear/whatever that weapon is.

[Iron Savior]

Ive wanted to play as Izayoi ever since she was revealed, and my Cp should arrive later today, the combos are already covered by the wonderful combo thread, so how should i approach her neutral game?

My concern is that she doesn't seem to have an easy way to get in like Val Lanto and other related attacks in Relius' case, and it seems people like to mash 5a when you are in Gain Art

 

Also, how do you combo in normal mode from farther ranges?, i think i once saw someone do 5b>6c>stuff, but i can't find something like that in the combo thread

[Justice7541]

You pretty much just do 5B > 236C if you're too far for 5C to connect.

[Angel-tastic]

Also, how do you combo in normal mode from farther ranges?, i think i once saw someone do 5b>6c>stuff, but i can't find something like that in the combo thread

In normal mode, 5B -> 6C works on counter-hit, so you can do that when you counter something with 5B pokes. The combos are basically the same as 5B -> 5C though; you just do 6C -> CS Gamma instead, but the rest is the same.

[crimsonstardust]

Ive wanted to play as Izayoi ever since she was revealed, and my Cp should arrive later today, the combos are already covered by the wonderful combo thread, so how should i approach her neutral game?

My concern is that she doesn't seem to have an easy way to get in like Val Lanto and other related attacks in Relius' case, and it seems people like to mash 5a when you are in Gain Art

 

Also, how do you combo in normal mode from farther ranges?, i think i once saw someone do 5b>6c>stuff, but i can't find something like that in the combo thread

 

Well as some people mentioned 5B 236C is a solid way to poke people and is safe to use the tip or near the tip of 5B and some other members already mentioned some stuff I would of mentioned too. 

 

The neutral is honestly the hardest part about Izayoi, its easier in normal mode cause you have normal movement, in GA mode it gets harder cause its really easy for her to get disrespected when she tries to go in with hover dashes.The way I started to approach neutral with her is to take advantage of the fact she can air dash and jump out of hover dash, this lets you bait out some stuff and do stuff like counter hit jC or if your lucky, fatal 3C. One very overlooked part of GA mode is you can simply just walk with her and you don't have to be flying all over the place with her. If you see people mashing 5A or something to stop your approach, its gonna be up to you to be able to stop yourself from running into those things with jumping or air dashing and try to sit in ranges where you can start mixing people up, of course there are cases where your opponent can't people conditioned to stop mashing so your gonna have to take advantage of that with frame traps and other ways to bait out that sort of play. Part of her neutral involves you really being familiar with her hover dash movement and what she can do out of it, you can do things like pseudo tri-dashes by whiffing air throw, jB or jC to land a tad faster don't forget you can do stuff like air sonic saber to D teleport, just make sure the sonic saber is going to hit as you teleport cause you can get mashed out if the D teleport is done to early. If your opponent is starting to respect the hover dash jC/jB, you can whiff throw (or catch someone chicken blocking) and go low. In both modes sonic saber, 236C (you can stance cancel this move also to keep yourself safe also), 623B/C, 5B and possibly D teleport (during GA mode) are gonna be the main neutral tools for her. Izayoi forces you to play on point so your reads have to be pretty solid or your gonna be sitting in block stun for awhile. 

[Iron Savior]

Her neutral is the hardest part?, even harder than the combos?

I was practicing them(along with Relius') for a few hours and i couldn't do them in a match

[Ichipoo]

Her neutral is the hardest part?, even harder than the combos?

I was practicing them(along with Relius') for a few hours and i couldn't do them in a match

Good neutral is how you land combos in the first place.

[Midnight-Zephyr]

Ive been having a slight issue execution-wise.

Any combo that has 236B>214A>2B/2C I tend to drop. (I can land it about 3 out of every 10 tries.) Is it just a timing thing or is there way to make it easier for me?

 

In general I need to get accustomed to the 4 Mirage Thrusters and their uses, but its mostly in combos where I find it hard to use.

[crimsonstardust]

Well normally you use 2B cause of its start up time and range, you also have to watch your spacing cause their are ranges where you can hit 236B but will whiff 2B cause you are just a tad to far. If your having trouble linking 2B you can try holding the down 2B cause it gives you a 3 frame buffer. Make sure your doing 214A right away so it gives you some more time to link 2B.

[Angel-tastic]

Any combo that has 236B>214A>2B/2C I tend to drop. (I can land it about 3 out of every 10 tries.) Is it just a timing thing or is there way to make it easier for me?

Yeah, it's just timing. I think Celerity mentioned that it's a 1 frame link (+ the extra 3 frames from the input buffer), so it just takes some getting used to. I had trouble with it too when I was learning Izayoi, but after a bit of practice you should be able to do it consistently without any difficulty. You want to press 2B right as Izayoi starts to reappear, since you don't have to wait for the teleport to be completely finished before you can attack.

[Midnight-Zephyr]

1 Frame? Well its even more suprising to me because I am getting better at it.

I still dont want to rely on it in like Netplay or something (dat lag), but Its not as difficult due to the input buffer. Thanks.

[Kenrou.Horo]

Why are her combos so hard ._."  Compared to Makoto, her combos are so much more intense, both timing and input-wise.   How long does it take to acclimate to Izayoi?

 

I was so happy when I finally got CP this week, but the disillusionment after trying to learn Izayoi hit me like a brick LOL. 

[Ichipoo]

How long? It just depends on how good your execution is as a player. I was able to get her 2B links down like 80%-90% after a good 3-4 hour grind. I still can't do mode change combos though but that's probably because I'm lazy and 1.1 is around the corner.

[crimsonstardust]

Eh I dunno about being hard, I have more trouble doing more damaging stuff with her that usually involves linking 2C after 236B~214A in the corner for non fatal counter combos during GA. I can't remember how long it took me to be able to do combos consistently with her I always feel like for BB it takes awhile before being able to hit a combo consistently when your trying to play a new character.

[Justice7541]

Why are her combos so hard ._." Compared to Makoto, her combos are so much more intense, both timing and input-wise. How long does it take to acclimate to Izayoi?

I was so happy when I finally got CP this week, but the disillusionment after trying to learn Izayoi hit me like a brick LOL.

Eh? 236B~214A 2B 623B is like the only hard thing for starters. Most of her other BnBs are easy enough unless you're trying for the swagstyle stuff like 236D 5D microdash 5A, and for the most part you can USUALLY get by without them, at least until you're more used to the character.

You do pick up the 236B 2B link eventually, although admittedly I still drop it sometimes myself if I'm not paying enough attention.

[Sashi]

Neutral with GA mode Izayoi, though. That's so hard. I can do the combos fine, but I can never get a hit. I can move with Morrigan in VSav and I-No in AC, but trying to get a good hit is so hard for me when I'm in GA. I end up having the mobility of Tager.

[crimsonstardust]

Neutral with GA mode Izayoi, though. That's so hard. I can do the combos fine, but I can never get a hit. I can move with Morrigan in VSav and I-No in AC, but trying to get a good hit is so hard for me when I'm in GA. I end up having the mobility of Tager.

A lot of people seem to not realize/forget or whatever the case maybe that you can do things like air dash or double jump out of hover dash, you can do other stuff like whiff air throw or use jB/jC to fall faster during the neutral. Usually when I do get a hit in its cause I've managed to condition my opponent to think twice before trying to anti air Izayoi with random buttons, though that's pretty hard to do when some players just don't give a crap and still hit buttons. Don't forget you still can use sonic sabers and D teleport when your hovering around.

Though I think it'll be easier when the patch drops cause she can double air dash and she can move diagonally during an air dash so that can set up some interesting pressure off of GA 5C jump cancel.

[Ichipoo]

I think the hard part initially when playing 1.1 Izayoi is getting used to all of these new aerial movement options and making the most of them in a match lol.

[crimsonstardust]

I think the hard part initially when playing 1.1 Izayoi is getting used to all of these new aerial movement options and making the most of them in a match lol.

 

I think personally for me its gonna be the fact that GA back air dash is like her back dash now. 

 

Here's something I've had on my mind now that we are on the topic of changes, what do you guy's think about the teleport set up or whatever the Izayoi player in the latest footage was doing? I'm not sure what to think of it cause it looks kinda flashy and cool but I dunno how practical it really is, cause it looks like the opponents weren't sure what to do about the set up, my general experience with her teleports is most people could just mash out of them.  

[Angel-tastic]

Re: Teleport oki: IMO, it's just Confusion Fu that only works because it's so unusual and because, as you say, the opponent isn't sure what to do. If people were more familiar with Izayoi's teleports, I think it would be really easy to counter. Koeru tried the same sort of thing later in the event and got shut down pretty much every time IIRC because the opponent wasn't fooled by it. It's not something I'm planning on doing post-patch unless it turns out her teleports got buffed somehow.

 

@Kenrou.Horo: Yeah, Izayoi is sort of tricky to learn because her most important "basic" combo is quite hard since it has a 1 frame link (+3 bonus frames from the input buffer). I had pretty much the same experience as you when I first tried to learn her and just went  back to playing Nu for a while, and tried Izayoi again later once I was ready for the "challenge". Anyway, take confidence in the fact that after you learn the CS Gamma -> 214A -> 2B combos, that's pretty much the hardest combos Izayoi has. Remember that you need to press 2B a bit earlier than you would expect. You can attack right when Izayoi starts to reappear, but before the teleport completely finishes, even though you can't move or jump. I hope that helps a little.

 

As far as Izayoi's Gain Art neurtal is concerned, I actually don't use j.C that much since it's so free to anti-airs, and when it actually works, I consider myself lucky. Mostly I just use it to counter my opponent's pokes, or attack them when they're landing from a jump and other times when they can't anti-air you. Otherwise I mostly just spam A Sonic Sabers, Crusade Seraphim anti-airs, and 5B's just like in normal mode. Sometimes you can catch the opponent off-guard with 3C since it moves Izayoi forward. If you're getting pressured and counter something with Justice Phorizer, you can combo off that into Strike Fall oki. Also, one thing I've been doing recently with some success is using 6C as an anti-air, since Izayoi moves forward, it's hit-box is pretty tall, it's air unblockable, and it tends to "trade" in your favor, being a level 5 attack, and it's +4 on air block. Sometimes you get the swag 4k counter combo too. Once you've got oki, I feel like Izayoi's pressure is pretty good personally.

[TheRealBobMan]

Since people have trouble in neutral, I guess I should point out that Izayoi has a faster forward and back walk in GA mode.  This helps quite a bit with her ground pokes (can't wait for 5B to not suck).  Now if only you got meter for walking forward like in GG...

[Hintalove]

Here's something I've had on my mind now that we are on the topic of changes, what do you guy's think about the teleport set up or whatever the Izayoi player in the latest footage was doing? I'm not sure what to think of it cause it looks kinda flashy and cool but I dunno how practical it really is, cause it looks like the opponents weren't sure what to do about the set up, my general experience with her teleports is most people could just mash out of them.  

 

The mixup of x blockstring into teleport back into Astraea is good because it is fast and people that aren't used to it will move/hit a button when they see you teleport away thinking that you were trying to reset back to neutral. Astraea is also cancelable into tele on block so it's pretty safe even if you don't get the hit. Lastly, Astraea is a fatal counter move, so if you hit I assume you can get a big return. The part that is iffy is that it is going to cost you a stock just to fish for a ch.

[crimsonstardust]

The mixup of x blockstring into teleport back into Astraea is good because it is fast and people that aren't used to it will move/hit a button when they see you teleport away thinking that you were trying to reset back to neutral. Astraea is also cancelable into tele on block so it's pretty safe even if you don't get the hit. Lastly, Astraea is a fatal counter move, so if you hit I assume you can get a big return. The part that is iffy is that it is going to cost you a stock just to fish for a ch.

 

Astraea isn't safe on block though, even if you teleport I'm pretty sure some characters can chase a back teleport or if you use one of the other ones I'm pretty sure that's a free punish then. If they get used to it that does kinda defeat the purpose of using astrea like that though, say if you where baiting a reversal with that set up (hypothetically, not saying that's the point you are making) 3C still would be a better option cause you aren't using a stock to do that and I think 3C still has fatal properties unless there was a hidden change that took that out. I dunno I guess it is something you can pull out every so often cause it is still a mix up, doesn't mean it's always mean you keep yourself safe with plays like that either. Though I agree with Angel tastic on the idea its basically confusion flu, though I'm wondering now if you do something like, ender 3C~214B 214B (in the corner) if that puts you at a safe distance before they wake up. Man to many things I wanna test out when we get the new patch. T-T