[CP] Izayoi Gameplay Discussion - Tobe! Gandamu!

[skd]

hello friends, its me, back with sore hands from playing 1.1

 

complete with a flair for poor organization from yours truly!!

 

1.0/1.1 Damage comparisons on Dsaber
D saber (1.0) > 1159
D saber (1.1) > 944
OD D saber (1.0) > 1565
OD D saber (1.1) > 1248

 

 

Char spec meterless midscreen modechange, -3stocks, +6 stocks (net +3, no oki route yet)

-(jB/C/2B/5B) 5C 3C 236B 214A 5C 2C(1) 236D~214D 5D/2D 5A 623B~214B Delay 623C 6623C .

-2C(1) drops on jin, rc, am, az, valk, tao, noel, ara, carl, untested on kagura

-2C(1) hits, but D saber doesnt create enough untech > hz, ter, tag, mak, haku, bang, koko

-works on: ragna plat relius litchi bullet izayoi mu nu tsubaki

 

 

Normal mode 3C

-3C 236B 214A = 12f to act, 3C 236B 214B = 8f to act

 

 

New airdashes

-Fastest possible double jump IAD: jA > 18f, jB 20f (airdash = 11f before you can act, i think)

-airdash min height increased (? probably)
-fastest possible 6644 and 6666 no longer yield airdashes, holding 6 slightly longer lets you do that

-jC IAD jB is a 4f gap
-66 in the air already yields a kind of downwards angle, so you dont have to worry about doing 663 or anything. holding 9 during the dash keeps you...almost level, you make a little bit of a swerve but yeah. it makes it possible to stay off the ground with the fastest possible IAD (which is seriously good for mixing up high/low timing, very ambiguous since you can stop at any time)
-dash acceleration is a little different too she just kind of launches herself really fast now hahaha. you can just end up sailing across the screen while barriering (good movement option)

 

and last but not least the trans-am glitch is still in! wowee

 

i couldnt really pick apart the 6b feint timing change, and my impression of the 5b hitbox buff is...nothing...too big. its nice, but it could be a lot better. still, the move is fine for what it is. you (mostly) only get hit by moves that really avoid the hitbox now, so thats nice.

 

6A and 6B gp/invin buffs are very nice, along with the backdash buff as well. new GA backdash angle is very good for getting out of active frames. our little girl is all grown up (✿◖◡​◗)

[crimsonstardust]

I'm a little confused with the GA acceleration part, so basically after one 66, she goes a lot further now?

[skd]

it mainly shows after you release dash (you get thrown pretty far) but yeah, i think she starts to get faster as you dash farther. it might just be vita aspect ratio or whatever playing tricks on my eyes, but i dont think so :v

[TheRealBobMan]

Trans-Am glitch?

[crimsonstardust]

Hey Lunaris quick question about 6A, does it still not guard against low attacks?

[skd]

trans-am untechable glitch where every hit mid combo has counterhit untechable time.

 

6a does not, but 6b invin kicks in at the same frame (frame 4 for both in this version), so you have tools to beat both high/mid and lows very effectively.

 

been going hard on modechange, universal -3+6 at corner and -4+6 into corner. Throws anywhere are pretty much -3+6. All of these can be +4 with oki.

[Hintalove]

Crimson, I don't think it's something you do all the time, but rather something you can mix on against opponents that are prone to action when they perceive a neutral situation. Not worth the stocks unless you are pretty sure they will mash out something.

As for those -3+6 combos, where do they fall in the damage range?

[skd]

its not a lot hahaha, you end up sacrificing quite a bit of damage. its about 3~3.1k off dash jC in the corner (keep in mind the universal p1 nerf), does about the same damage on those chars who you are able to combo midscreen. but hey, stop positive or stock neutral bnb's are pretty good. midscreen, you get about 3.5k~ with 1 stock on 5C 2C(1) midscreen chars (after 3C 236B) so the damage loss isnt something to ***really*** miss. in the corner however, if you burn 2 stocks you get about 4k with knockdown, so :v

 

as i said previously (i think?) the p1 nerf ends up in us losing about ~400 damage for identical, full combos in the corner. jC in the corner was previously 4.4k for the same combo (exact was 4380, now is 3951) but realistically, you couldnt hit that hard in 1.0 because 3c wasnt special cancelable. that ends up bridging the gap a little bit. there was also a change on min height where strike fall places you (i hope to god this isnt a vita glitch/camera exploit) but now you can get 5A/phorizer after very low hits (so OTG 2C or OTG 5C 2C(1) into 6C 623C~D 5A/Phorizer works, this is gooooodlike). either min height change, or 6C sends you flying a little higher. in any case, gr888888888 (i dont want to jump the gun and say recovery, but its...probably recovery. thats what it feels like, anyways.)

 

Corner 3C FC CT 2C 5C 2C(1) 3C 236C~6D 2C 5C 2C(1) 236B~214A 2C 6C 623C~D (Phorizer OK) 6068/6728 with super. combo results in -1 net heat loss, so you can get the super if you start the combo with 51 heat

 

trans-am duration extended with hitstop = normal trans-am lasts for 10 hits, OD trans-am lasts for 20 hits (lmao)

 

tbh, trans-am might be worth the meter this time around. meter return is good and its literally one more orb than D saber teleport and 1 more stock. trans-am less combo routes are pretty good too. OD trans-am + orb gain (d saber) is pretty fucking opprressive.

[Angel-tastic]

Oh wow, Strike Fall recovery is shorter? That's really useful. You can do that right now in Overdrive, so it might be a glitch where Strike Fall is always using the Overdrive recovery time, but that would be pretty legit if that were a deliberate buff. Is the overdrive Strike Fall recovery on the Vita even shorter now? Can you combo off of Tiger Knee'd Noir Edge or something in Overdrive? =O

 

EDIT: Also, I'm wondering if 3C is only special cancelable on hit, or if it is on block as well.

 

Trans-Am seems like it could be pretty useful now since you get more hits and can probably use 3C somehow to combo into it reliably. After the combo is over, that would probably give you like 5 seconds of safe 6Bs, 3Cs, and 2Cs to mix up the opponent with, which is pretty tempting, not to mention that 6B combos with Trans-am, and I would assume the buffed 3C does now too. You could probably use the Trans-Am bits for oki too so you could block wake-up DPs and stuff, so a nice combo + godly oki + pressure is probably worth 4 stocks IMO.

[Surf]

She can already go into Trans Am with safe oki in 1.0 that will bait dp's and hits meaty enough to stop upback. And if you got a confirm you can go into another safe oki route + 50/50 mixup into a safe jump. And with Trans Am lasting twice as long it's gotten even more powerful

[crimsonstardust]

there was also a change on min height where strike fall places you (i hope to god this isnt a vita glitch/camera exploit) but now you can get 5A/phorizer after very low hits (so OTG 2C or OTG 5C 2C(1) into 6C 623C~D 5A/Phorizer works, this is gooooodlike). either min height change, or 6C sends you flying a little higher. in any case, gr888888888 (i dont want to jump the gun and say recovery, but its...probably recovery. thats what it feels like, anyways.)

I'm a little confused by this, so if we do like a standard bnb in the corner, use strikefall ender, so its possible to do 5A Phorizer now? Or is this more on line with the portion of the combo you mentioned?

Edit: oh wait I'm an idiot scratch what I said, for some reason I though the / meant combo into.

[Angel-tastic]

She can already go into Trans Am with safe oki in 1.0 that will bait dp's and hits meaty enough to stop upback. And if you got a confirm you can go into another safe oki route + 50/50 mixup into a safe jump.

Indeed she can. The problem I see with 1.0 Trans-Am and why I think no one uses it is that you basically have to choose between either a Trans-Am combo or Trans-Am oki/pressure, neither of which seems to be worth 4 stocks + 50 meter by themselves, in addition to what resources you need for the actual combo (Safe-jump + Rapid cancel mix-up, etc. > Trans-Am mix-up, Justice Phorizer > Trans-Am combo IMO). The fact that Trans-Am lasts twice as long means you should be able to do both now, combo into Trans-Am for some really good damage with Strike Fall and still have enough time left for all the great oki/pressure too. I think the fact that you can effectively do both now is what will make it worth the 4 stocks in BBCP 1.1. It's like 2 stocks for the Trans-Am combo and 2 stocks for the godly oki/pressure, instead of 4 stocks for one or the other.

[skd]

Visually, i appear much closer to the opponent with strike fall (vertically). i really dont know whats different, just eyeballing it feels like something is definitely different, and for sure you can pick up off slightly lower hits now (also get safejump off of longer combos). TK noir strike fall sadly does not go into 5a haha, but yeah there is definitely still a difference between OD strike fall and normal strike fall. though i cant really pinpoint whats different? it feels like recovery, which throws me off because if i could see a visual change it probably isnt recovery...whatever though haha. if it works it works.

[Justice7541]

Wait are you saying Izayoi can do IAD j.B/2A mixup now? That's really troll.

Dash barrier hopping also sounds funny.

[Ichipoo]

I'd hate to derail the discussion away from 1.1 for a while but lately, I've been finding that holding 623B/C to be surprisingly effective sometimes. Before, I would occasionally throw them out just a few moments too early and it would whiff, thus dying. Had I held and delayed them, I would've anti aired my opponent. When the opponent starts to respect this by not jumping or air dashing at you more this should give you a bit of a breather in neutral.

 

I personally feel silly for not realizing this sooner and again, sorry for the slight derail but I think this obvious trick should still prove a bit useful in 1.1?

[skd]

dunno if this is new, but im getting 6 normals/inputs with dash momentum and bufferable dash momentum into stuff

 

tl;dr ground dash normals/specials/supers, pretty limited though, very difficult hahaha

 

oops, i forgot to mention this is in gain art lol. so gain art, but ground dash momentum.

[Justice7541]

Carl can do that too, never tried it with Izayoi though. I dunno if Hakumen or Valk can, I never tried with them either.

Izayoi doesn't really have 6 moves worth microdashing anyway, unless microdash 2A (3A) works.

[skd]

its not quite the same as carl, izayoi's has to be frame perfect i think. and if thats true, 3 moves shouldnt work because only 6 moves can initiate a dash and the input is probably on the exact same frame. you can get around this with the buffer, but i think you have to actually press the button on a specific frame, lol. the window might be 2f, honestly. testing on vita is fucking garboooooo

[crimsonstardust]

How far does she travel when you use this tech? It might be handy for getting extra range for 6C or something.

[onemic]

Why is Izayoi still considered to be bottom tier in 1.1? JPN arcade tier lists still has her at the bottom with Makoto ;_;

[crimsonstardust]

Why is Izayoi still considered to be bottom tier in 1.1? JPN arcade tier lists still has her at the bottom with Makoto ;_;

Well Arcadia Fighting game remix has her listed as A tier (well more like anyone that isn't Azrael, Litchi or Kokonoe are S tier and Makoto is in a tier of her own). Source, http://shoryuken.com/2014/05/02/whos-top-tier-check-out-the-latest-character-rankings-from-arcadia-for-super-street-fighter-iv-arcade-edition-ver-2012-guilty-gear-xrd-sign-persona-4-the-ultimax-ultra-suplex-hold-and-more/

 

Though I wouldn't be surprised if most tiers has her listed pretty low, a lot of her initial problems got fix but I think the larger hurdle is still making sure you have stocks to start playing her game. It doesn't mean she doesn't have viability, it means as Izayoi players we have to play work harder for the win.  

[Codename Exia]

Shouldn't matter so much that she needs stocks because she seems to be much more effective with them than she is currently along with possible meterless midscreen mode-changes. It'll be easier to deal with not having stars and keeping the count up in general.

[crimsonstardust]

I haven't really seen what she could do stockless yet, still waiting for that patch.

[Justice7541]

I was under the impression that her non-GA stuff was mostly the same except that 3C comboing into 236B makes it easier to do certain links, including maybe crossover 214B cancel. Not sure about that though, will have to wait on SKD to test for us.

[skd]

i did mention that before, 3C 236B~214B 2A does work. otherwise, the only big normal mode changes were defensive (gp, backdash buff)