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LM_Akira

Order-Sol vs. A.B.A.

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So I had very little experience with this matchup until quite recently, when I was able to play an extremely strong ABA/I-No/Slayer player.

In terms of fighting against her, I believe the idea is to try and stop her transforming as much as possible. Keep Normal Mode ABA under as much pressure as possible because if she gets a chance to transform into Moroha Mode, your job is going to become a nightmare. The problem with this is the fact that Normal Mode ABA will always be looking for a chance to transform so you need to stay on your toes. So just saying "pressure Normal Mode ABA so she can't transform" is easier said than done :vbang: .

Normal Mode ABA poses no real threat to you. If you can get up into her face, CC lockdown works nicely as long as you mixup your options. Watch out for 2K or 2D as these both lead to free keygrabs, as well her throw and 2HS. Keygrab will work from a surprising number of options, as well as by itself (e.g. predictable Lv1 Rock Its can be keygrabbed!).

Moroha Mode ABA is scary. Don't try and combo her unless you're;

a) Going to kill her

b) Can end the combo in knockdown

c) Her Moroha gauge will empty by the time the combo has finished

3 knockdowns will remove all of her Moroha bar and will give you a free combo after the 3rd one (she's vulnerable as she gets up). So try to go for the knockdowns instead of combos as a good ABA will always know when to recover their health and generally undo the work you did in killing her during her Moroha Mode rampage.

Some random notes:

- whiff j.P falling j.HS will lose to Normal Mode's 2HS (and give her a free combo and transform) and Danzai in Moroha mode (you will most likely land a CH with the j.HS but the super armour will just absorb it). I'm pretty sure this will lose to Moroha mode's 6P as well. In the case of Normal Mode, the damage is nothing to worry about (but she gets a transform :() however, in Moroha Mode she can hurt you really badly from these anti airs, especially leading into the corner. I didn't test out j.P, j.P. Maybe j.P FD (if they don't do anything at first) as Titanium Beast suggest against Slayer's 2S may work better if you're going to jump forwards.

- Moroha Mode 5S(f) will obliterate your 5S(f) or 2S, most likely other moves to (I didn't get a chance to try 5HS but I doubt it would be any use) at mid range. Basically you can't hit buttons if you're both on neutral ground and there's a gap between you because she will outpoke you and combo from the resultant hit.

- Moroha Mode ABA has a solid fuzzy guard game and can keep you in block stun for long periods of time (building your guard gauge in the blink of an eye). Dead Angle works well vs Moroha Mode to count as one of your knockdowns but smart ABA players will save their burst for these times and so will burst before she is knocked down (so in other words, Dead Angle when she doesn't have burst is a free knockdown).

- As with all dragon punches, Danzai needs to be baited (or at least an attempt to bait it must be made) it's super armour will most likely result in you being swatted away if you try to blindly rushdown Moroha Mode ABA.

- If the ABA player is abusing the stagger on the 2nd hit of rekkas, you need to mash out of it so's to stop them running back in and extending their combo.

- Lv1 GB functions as good anti air against Moroha Mode ABA (using j.S or Konzetsu as crossup/non crossup shenanigans on wakeup is also something to watch out for).

- Moroha Mode sweep has sickening range :(

Recent match:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyS9MyCNDuc

I have some other matches where I'm not playing like a total scrub and I'm playing with more of a gameplan but I've got hours and hours of casuals to wade thru to find them.

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I think this match-up is fun, honestly. Punishing Danzai and its FB counterpart never gets old.

I'm not going to talk about vs. Normal Mode. It's just too easy. All your strongest Oki and mix-up work against her until she gets 25% Tension (for reversal FB slide), and your pressure can keep her locked down for quite a long time. Like LM_Akira said, 2K/2D lead to a free keygrab, and 2D can beat a few of your normals, so be wary. Other than that, have fun with that "free" pressure.

The real bulk of this fight, and the part everyone is most concerned with, is against Moroha Mode. Some Protips:

1: Gotta' disagree with not combo'ing her. You CAN kill ABA. Even though her defense is huge and her aerial hitbox is retarded, damage is damage.

2: When going for a combo, prioritize knockdown. Three knockdowns = your biggest damage punish (a corner Fafnir into Dust Loop, most likely). Aside from that, scoring a knockdown puts ABA in a more panicky mindset; once they realize that they have one less knockdown before they permanently lose their health for pressuring you (discussed later), along with potentially getting a free combo on them for even more damage, you limit their options and can be more focused on dealing with their next action: trying to get out of Moroha Mode.

3: Most ABAs will hold their Burst until a knockdown, to maximize the number of times they can make mistakes before getting punished. So limit baiting Burst unless the combo you're going to do will kill her. This also means that alot of your 2D xx Lvl1 GB setups will get bursted. I tend to hold off on these particular setups until after an ABA's burst is gone. Just makes things easier.

4: Moroha Mode can keep you under pressure for quite a long time. Your guard bar is going to get cranked, but don't panic. Just watch for 5D, the throw (while landing j.HS, and after 2HS are the most advantageous points to throw for ABA, as your options after both are limited thanks to Danzai), and the unblockable (41236K, the little flip kick off the key). If you see the unblockable, just jump it; you don't even need to FD in the air to guard it.

5: Keep in mind that when Moroha Mode pressures/combos you, she's losing health. The longer you can guard her pressure, the easier it becomes to kill her if you get a chance to retaliate. Don't be afraid to guard (it helps you out in more ways than you think).

6: While throwing seems to be a sweet deal (adds a knockdown, gives you momentum), Danzai and j.HS both punish you hard for the attempt. Don't get too crazy with the tick throws, and never, ever take that throw bait on your wake-up. Not only do the aforementioned moves ruin your day, but 2HS is throw invincible, easy to hit confirm, and leads to massive damage.

Prime punishes/escapes:

1: Danzai/FB Danzai: You can 2S/2D after the first hit (before the second) for a free CH. If you guard both hits, a running 5K/2P is easy to hit with.

2: 2nd hit -> 3rd hit of Rekkas: Learn to IB the second hit. Once you do, you can interrupt even the fastest input of the third hit with 2S. If you don't want to go through the trouble, you can SV inbetween, but that carries its own set of risks.

3: 2nd hit -> Unblockable: It's man time, 5HS that bitch.

4: Max range 5S(f): You can Fafnir this. If you don't want the risk, it's a free jump-in.

5: If she jumps: You GB. Unless she's right on top of you, GB will always cover you safely.

6: 2D: Fafnir :).

Oki NOT to do:

1: 6K: Reversal Danzai eats you.

2: 2HS: Same as above.

3: Normal whiff Lvl1 GB: Danzai HITS YOU OUT OF IT WTF.

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Honestly, after reading your posts I can kind of see how it's not a terrrrrrible match. The thing however is, more than any other character(except maybe testalol and eddie) aba forces you to defend with a cranked guard bar, and unlike the other two, her combos consist of massive hits for the entire duration, so if you eat a 2h or even a throw with cranked bar you're looking at 90% damage easy as long as the aba player knows whats up. One thing you guys don't really touch too much on is how to approach her. She has some of the best anti-airs in the game and entering into a poke battle with her is akin to suicide. If shes not jumping then I don't really see what options we have besides random risky stuff like ri/fafnir. Lastly, can you cancel into gb to avoid danzai/fb danzai like hammerfall?

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Good stuff WUT, I will try out some of those things the next time I get to fight ABA. I've always held the notion that you should simply go for knockdown against Moroha ABA and forget combos but I'll work more on dust looping her in future. Oh yeah, Moroha 2S is solid anti air too, much like Slayer's 2S. Hintalove, for approaching Moroha ABA all I can really think of atm is FD braking and low jump > double jump backwards to try and bait stuff.

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Oh yeah, Moroha 2S is solid anti air too, much like Slayer's 2S.

More like five of Slayer's 2S. That shit is wiiiiiide.

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having a lot of experience against our weekly visiting ABA, your post helped me alot (both Akira and WUT), thx. And oh, if you see the unblockable (41236K flip kick on the key) you can poke it out with like P K or S if the ABA is doing it in a blockstring. but i guess jumping is the most safe option.

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Thanks to all for the info. This will come in handy against a friend who's trying to use A.B.A so I'll finally have a decent strat goin

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You don't poke when you approach A.B.A. 5S(f) pigeon-holes you into too few options (Fafnir or jumping) on the ground, and her anti-airs must be met with respect. Empty jumping, jumping FD, double-jump, FD brake, all those little tactics you use when fighting someone who can outzone/poke you apply here. If she whiffs something you're in.

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In Normal mode, I'm actually less afraid of HOS than most other characters. Sweep, 5H, and 2H are all effective. Her turtle game here seems to counter his need to get close, to a decent extent anyway. And yeah, you basically want her to guess between 5S and 2S. Remember to sweep underneath 5H! Good ABAs don't usually perform all 3 rekkas on block. You should be able to do something safe after IBing the first one, though that's not the easiest thing to do in a real match. HOS's level 1 DP sucks here. Low damage, doesn't knock down, and she has a literally foolproof punish - mash 2S and get the counter hit every time, regardless of what you do. On defense: Backdashing is one of the best ways to escape 2H & rekka pressure, and this is especially true for HOS. Just be ready for dash up throw if ABA catches on. Jumping after blocking a 2H is not recommended - she can delay rekkas to catch you during your jump startup, or Danzai, or 2S (yes, 2H gatlings to 2S), or butt, or airthrow...

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You don't poke when you approach A.B.A. 5S(f) pigeon-holes you into too few options (Fafnir or jumping) on the ground, and her anti-airs must be met with respect. Empty jumping, jumping FD, double-jump, FD brake, all those little tactics you use when fighting someone who can outzone/poke you apply here. If she whiffs something you're in.

Realistically, how is this going to work? If your opponent can just push you out regardless whether you come in by ground or by air how is jump FD and FD brakes going to work? Especially in mohora mode :S

Oh and if SV is used to skim A.B.A pokes on CH it will be only one hit and it will knock down.

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Realistically, how is this going to work? If your opponent can just push you out regardless whether you come in by ground or by air how is jump FD and FD brakes going to work? Especially in mohora mode :S

If she whiffs something you're in.

See what you made me do?

To elaborate: her anti-airs lose to your ground game, or get punished should you avoid them, with a while landing. Her zoning/spacing pokes lose to your ground game. Jumping FD and FD braking both work to close the gap safely and possibly score a way in should ABA do something wrong while trying to keep you out, along with other smart movement tactics (varied double jumps, IAD'ing back, super jumps, stutter steps, etc.).

It's the same thing against everyone who can zone you: you have to be patient. If they react/guess correctly and push you back out, you try again. Sure, it's frustrating, but that's what HOS has to deal with. You can't expect some sort of trump card that always beats every option they have for a free win in every situation; HOS doesn't have one.

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See what you made me do?

muhahaha:P

Though this part I was looking for moreover:

To elaborate: her anti-airs lose to your ground game, or get punished should you avoid them, with a while landing. Her zoning/spacing pokes lose to your ground game. Jumping FD and FD braking both work to close the gap safely and possibly score a way in should ABA do something wrong while trying to keep you out, along with other smart movement tactics (varied double jumps, IAD'ing back, super jumps, stutter steps, etc.).

Are all her AAs dj punishable? Which normals should she whiff for you to get in? Are there any whiffs fafnir punishable?

It's the same thing against everyone who can zone you: you have to be patient. If they react/guess correctly and push you back out, you try again. Sure, it's frustrating, but that's what HOS has to deal with. You can't expect some sort of trump card that always beats every option they have for a free win in every situation; HOS doesn't have one.

I know, I know:P Though with some characters its more annoying than others(Eddie for example), though I'm wondering if there would be any reason for A.B.A not to try to push you out all the time.

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Realistically, how is this going to work?

Oh, I don't know, maybe that thing called whiffing.

ABA's 6P and 2S are solid anti-airs with a variety of uses (especially 2S); however, there is significant recovery on both. 2S has a good chunk of startup, and 6P against a lot of characters, including Hos, you really have to get that 6P early. If I think you're going to jump and preemptively 6P/2S, and you just plain ol' FD Break and move in, now I'm in the recovery. I'll probably be able to block, but that being said, you got through the hardest part, her f.S. Moves have recovery. You bait moves, they whiff, you reposition and/or ideally punish. Her f.S and 5H are so good not just because of their hitboxes and rewards, but also the blazing fast quick recovery time on both.

Also, I mean, any whiff is technically 'punishable' from the right range with the right move, but it's all situational. If I whiff a move, and you're in fafnir range and feeling good about it, I don't know, then fafnir. ABA's normals don't have extreme recovery save 6H, and the only special you're going to be really punishing is Danzai or a botched orb FRC.

Personally, I've been doing rather rotten as of late against OS, but I feel like with experience, the match is for sure in ABA's favor. She has a lot of tools to deal with OS in the neutral game.

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Personally, I've been doing rather rotten as of late against OS, but I feel like with experience, the match is for sure in ABA's favor.

Against the good OS's anyway.. I still got a long way to go.. :blue:

anyway

All I know is that Danzi is Fafnirable and after that one gatling that makes you slide if you get it is fafnir / 5hs punishable. But Moroha RC's so many of his moves I honestly can't tell anymore.. :psyduck:

@WUT: I dunno about running in and FDing everything cause she can crank yo bard lie woah and eventually hit you and if you get hit wit a cranked bar.. ... :vbang: ... But that just might be me and not knowing when to break her strings.

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She can't crank your guard bar while you're FD'ing, as FD doesn't build guard bar. 5H is dirty (stupid active hitbox while she draws the key back and up), but more managable via ground game than 5S(f). Also, I like to burst when ABA goes for 2D xx OTG Key grab in Normal mode. Ruining that free mode change and leaving her stuck in Normal mode just feels too good. Keep in mind that she can delay the key grab (or opt to simply not do it) and pretty much waste your burst. Using it sparingly gives you the best results.

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