Dizzy vs Slayer

[excelence]

yep... bear with it the only good thing from Dizzy 6p, it has huge forward hit box and priority and can stuff many pokes into knock down rape

[Nehle]

You can try for an airthrow, but, yea, the best option is to block. Imperial Ray would probably trade with the j.HS unless FRC'd and you can't spend 75% tension everytime you need to AA him :I

[Tech Romancer]

You can try for an airthrow, but, yea, the best option is to block. Imperial Ray would probably trade with the j.HS unless FRC'd and you can't spend 75% tension everytime you need to AA him :I

What about a TK'ed bubble? Maybe if that were timed correctly, that might work? I can't test it right now, but since j.HS is part of Slayer's body (his fists)...

Somebody please! There's gotta be a way to stuff this jackass from jumping in on us. If he jumps in, he establishes CC, and then he gets all this positive frame normals and mix-up potential to work with. And we don't want that crap.

Also Nehle, speaking of bubbles...I posted a query for you in the video thread, but you never got back to me.

[excelence]

his fist on j.hs isn't part of his body, but his feet is, tk bubble got eaten alive with his 6hs/5hs/mappas/j.k/DOT/BBU without proper spacing

[Kurokun]

Are these j.H attempts of the regular jump in variety or IAD j.H instead?

[excelence]

on regular Jump in variety u can only block/back dash/air throw..., on iad u can 2s and it's clashed

[Kurokun]

on regular Jump in variety u can only block/back dash/air throw..., on iad u can 2s and it's clashed

At the onset of the discussion, I was wondering which of the j.H versions (regular jump in or IAD) Tech Romancer was talking about. I ended up going into training mode to check/test things out regarding both versions and arrived at the same conclusion as your post.

It looks like though SL's IAD j.H attempt -could- be countered by DI's j.H for a CH into a KD combo or whatever if spotted early enough. However, the IAD is pretty fast and likely to be part of SL's pressure tactics. Also the risk of getting hit by a CH j.H from SL into a high damage combo is present should you not succeed. It probably would be better to block then counter/escape the resulting mixup instead, lol.

[Killerwatt]

I'm curious; does anyone know the Japanese ranking for this matchup? I had a few fights with my groups resident Slayer and he claimed it was a frustrating fight (I won 3 out of 4 matches I also got them recorded so look out for them soon!) and that it is clearly in Dizzy's favor. While we might believe it to be so, I wonder what the Japanese think.

[zaeris]

I don't have evidence but it’s in slayers favour.... Clearly good slayer wins hand down, your friend doesn't know his match up well....... If Dizzy gets CH by slayer it can go into 50%+ and BBU/slayer jHS gives him an easy 50%+. A good slayer only needs to land two combo to kill dizzy and plus dizzy is mostly vulnerable in many states such as summons, ice spike, bubble, most of her special are slow and -ve on block. If dizzy is winning its only because slayer is making alot of mistakes and eating attack that he shouldn't. The match is 3/4 zoning for dizzy, Dizzy Oki can be limited here too if that slayer can use BD cancel which lets him escape her J2s oki.

[Nehle]

Last thing I read was Kazuki saying 5:5, but that was just as AC was released so that might have changed. I do still believe it's in Slayer's favor, but it's not as horrible as zaeris makes it sound. It's not quite that simple either. Relatively close and summonless, yes, Slayer has the direkt advantage because all his normals are shitfuck broken so you are in trouble if you push buttons at the same time as him. That said, Dizzy does have a severe speed advantage over Slayer and if he can't lock her down, she can be gone in a flash. Slayer's trouble here is that he has no safe way of moving fast. His dash is a joke and his IAD is pretty short. Slayer's only fast movement without spending tension is mappa, and mappa is risky as hell because if Dizzy can see it coming, it's easily stuffable with either 5K or 5H and that's a free knockdown combo and plenty of time for Dizzy to start spamming projectile wall, which is a big problem for him as he has no multihit to get past fish reliably (except Crosswise Heel, which is lololol punish if you block it) and scythe and dagger easily locks down his airgame. The problem is if Slayer has tension. Or if he manages to get knockdown on Dizzy. Fuck, BBU can get past almost anything Dizzy has (but can be baited) and DoT can be done on reaction against almost any summon for 100% combo from almost anywhere (Maybe FB bubble from high up can be good here). This creates a huge guessing game for Dizzy which forces her to take enormous risks. And once he has a knockdown he can just mix you up and frame trap you all day until he lands any sort of hit and then you died. Once again Dizzy takes huge risks trying to escape or beat his lockdown game. Not that it can't be done, but if you make a mistake it may have cost you the round. I think the biggest mistake Dizzy players make is that they are too afraid of Slayer to begin with, and run away more than necessary, which gives him too much tension and suddenly the whole game is a deathtrap. When Slayer doesn't have the tension to BBU or DoT, don't run away too mutch, instead find the right spacing and learn how to stand your ground so that you can begin the zoning game. Regarding oki and BDC, it's not that hard to have it meaty enough to stuff his escape attempts.

[Tech Romancer]

Last thing I read was Kazuki saying 5:5, but that was just as AC was released so that might have changed. I do still believe it's in Slayer's favor, but it's not as horrible as zaeris makes it sound. It's not quite that simple either.

Relatively close and summonless, yes, Slayer has the direkt advantage because all his normals are shitfuck broken so you are in trouble if you push buttons at the same time as him.

That said, Dizzy does have a severe speed advantage over Slayer and if he can't lock her down, she can be gone in a flash. Slayer's trouble here is that he has no safe way of moving fast. His dash is a joke and his IAD is pretty short. Slayer's only fast movement without spending tension is mappa, and mappa is risky as hell because if Dizzy can see it coming, it's easily stuffable with either 5K or 5H and that's a free knockdown combo and plenty of time for Dizzy to start spamming projectile wall, which is a big problem for him as he has no multihit to get past fish reliably (except Crosswise Heel, which is lololol punish if you block it) and scythe and dagger easily locks down his airgame.

The problem is if Slayer has tension. Or if he manages to get knockdown on Dizzy. Fuck, BBU can get past almost anything Dizzy has (but can be baited) and DoT can be done on reaction against almost any summon for 100% combo from almost anywhere (Maybe FB bubble from high up can be good here). This creates a huge guessing game for Dizzy which forces her to take enormous risks.

And once he has a knockdown he can just mix you up and frame trap you all day until he lands any sort of hit and then you died. Once again Dizzy takes huge risks trying to escape or beat his lockdown game. Not that it can't be done, but if you make a mistake it may have cost you the round.

I think the biggest mistake Dizzy players make is that they are too afraid of Slayer to begin with, and run away more than necessary, which gives him too much tension and suddenly the whole game is a deathtrap.

When Slayer doesn't have the tension to BBU or DoT, don't run away too mutch, instead find the right spacing and learn how to stand your ground so that you can begin the zoning game.

Regarding oki and BDC, it's not that hard to have it meaty enough to stuff his escape attempts.

Personally, I'm quite aggressive against slayer. I've learned to start stuffing mappa with 6p, air dash circles around him, and set bubbles like no tomorrow. A lot of his stuff outside of normals is extremely punishable unless he FRC's and this my advantage to be aggressive in that I don't allow him to gain much tension.

I don't think this is a easy or favorable match-up, but I do think depending on the way it is handled, its a hell of a lot better than Chip, Millia or Order Sol.

[Killerwatt]

Slayer is BDC-ing my oki and zoning with Mappa...does anyone know how to deal with this???

[Stag.S]

What you should do, right after fish on oki, is set up a bubble. If the Slayer attempts to mappa/bbu you, they'll most likely hit the fish and you'll get a CH bubble pop. Do it a few times and they'll think twice about trying to punish you recklessly, but if you're too slow on the summon say hello to a CH DoT, and 90-100% life. You really need the knockdown before you can safely pressure. If you throw out the spinning scythe, you might be able to catch him off guard as well, but make sure you have adequete cover first. FRCing it is a must, so you can block if he attempts something. The biggest concern about using this, is having him dash throw you, but with a fish out you're probably okay.

[vedasisme]

You tend to sit around watching after connecting a knockdown. You need to become a little more frantic and start summoning immediately.

also: FISHY, FISH, A-FISH, A-FISHY, OH.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWlUu54muOs

[Nehle]

Fish + 6H works pretty well in locking down after a KD if they're trying to escape a lot. If you IB K mappa you have a guaranteed 5P punish. Other than that, 5H and 5K stuff mappas if you see them coming

[Tech Romancer]

Fish + 6H works pretty well in locking down after a KD if they're trying to escape a lot.

If you IB K mappa you have a guaranteed 5P punish. Other than that, 5H and 5K stuff mappas if you see them coming

I like using 6P to punish Mappas, myself.

[excelence]

Slayer is BDC-ing my oki and zoning with Mappa...does anyone know how to deal with this???

yesterday, i experiment with aerial games, and zone with simple poke like air dash back with j.s and iad 2s... it seriously stress out my Slayer oponent, and probably someone has mention this on this thread ... "don't summon anything when he has 50% tension" .... it's good laugh yesterday

and use 2k on oki to eat any slayer bdc/bbu alives

and i think spamming ice spike frc to bait ch/continuing zoning/pressure games is a good strat :8/:

[excelence]

adding minor input that loose me a match dandy~h -> has Throw Invul why the heck this bulldozer pressure is so broke

[MacArthur Blunts]

yesterday, i experiment with aerial games, and zone with simple poke like air dash back with j.s and iad 2s... it seriously stress out my Slayer oponent, and probably someone has mention this on this thread ... "don't summon anything when he has 50% tension" .... it's good laugh yesterday

and use 2k on oki to eat any slayer bdc/bbu alives

and i think spamming ice spike frc to bait ch/continuing zoning/pressure games is a good strat :8/:

I dunno. 2K should get eaten by BDC bite...

You really can't meaty something enough so Slayer cannot BDC out... I really like to BDC delay j.P on wakeup or straight up just reversal backdash and let dizzy whiff a normal she was using to try and hit me out of BDC dandy/mappa then get a free whiff punish, sometimes BBU, 5K->DOT, sweep RC, 5K->P mappa...

Really any Slayer that knows the matchup shouldn't really be trying to BDC mappa when there are fish or bubbles floating around. Alternatively, they should be FDing you away to 5K range and then IB while looking to 5P the fish, watch for the throw or empty BD away.

5P/5K are both really good for dealing with fish. They both jumpcancel and gatling/link into themselves.

Another thing Slayer and Dizzy should know is that Slayer can kill you so many ways that health advantage really doesn't matter to him. Good Slayers will take about three or four combos to kill you. Better ones will just crank your gaurd bar early on and punish your escape attempt with a death combo.

[excelence]

I dunno. 2K should get eaten by BDC bite...

wait, u can BDC>bite? i'm certain, Dizzy corner oki 2k+fish is 100% safe on 2k max range against any reversal BDC

You really can't meaty something enough so Slayer cannot BDC out... I really like to BDC delay j.P on wakeup or straight up just reversal backdash and let dizzy whiff a normal she was using to try and hit me out of BDC dandy/mappa then get a free whiff punish, sometimes BBU, 5K->DOT, sweep RC, 5K->P mappa...

Yes i agree she can't, but she can make his option for BDC-ing very hard to get

Another thing Slayer and Dizzy should know is that Slayer can kill you so many ways that health advantage really doesn't matter to him. Good Slayers will take about three or four combos to kill you. Better ones will just crank your gaurd bar early on and punish your escape attempt with a death combo.

you're just being generous this friend of mine usually only need 2~3 combos to finish me off

[MacArthur Blunts]

I meant without fish..

[excelence]

Sry for not being specific before

[excelence]

Since i got loads of Slayer match up this past few weeks and being trampled like a pancake almost every time i'm trying to break down a strat for him

Stats

5.5:4.5 Slayer adv ... feels heavier when u get hit thought >_>

Openers:

React to what he's doing and get away fast

Punishes:

If the Slayer know his tools, she almost can't punish all his option, otherwise

it's pretty basic(BBU,k_Mappa/deep p_mappa,Crosswise, deep 2d...)

Counters:

Slayer - Dizzy

6h < 5k>5h>236h

mappa < 6p>66>5k>5h>236h

BBU < 2k>2d/2h>236h

6k < backdash>throw

Note :

Mappa & BBU're rather hard to spot on reflex i'll suggest just block and punish afterward, for the 6k, u can always see it and backdash on time

Anti-airing :

air Throw, Backdash

Zoning :

Bubbles

Their game plan :

Hit her once or twice ... any hit <3

Strategy :

This match up is fucked up my Strategy is don't get hit, since if he hit u, without tension -> 30~50%, 25% -> 50~80%, 50%+ -> 80~100% ... his damage output is retarded and Dizzy hit box is a real whack on his combo setup.

Try to be safely offensive that prevent him to gain tension tkBubble is pretty safe on 3/4 screen away and he didn't have 50% tension use it as your main zoning tools followed by stuff.

"If you can do the above, good for you, i try that yesterday and most of the times he'll still gain tension and Dizzy will got struck with Negative Penalty almost every time, more specific to the strategy above is, never try to deal with his normal head on, u'll lost. 3/4 or more screen away is a pretty safe zone to summon with Bubble protection that makes him hesitate to advance, thought if he buffer DOT and u're not exactly corner to corner position, he'll destroy you, this runaway games is still in his favor since the risk involved in it, but the good part is, he's forced to play your games, or he'll got chipped to death, try not to makes any mistakes as Dizzy didn't exactly need tension to play her Oki games"

Don't bait him by letting him got his pressure on to you, since 2h cranked guard bar like nobody business, and with cranked guard bar, he only need 50% tension to finish u off with death combos(which he will have), stay away and make your own opening and, dunno why his tick throw games're really hard to spot(probably because his range >_>).

Conserve your tension, don't waste it on block string like i've stated before, her tension gain is suck and u need it to fd him out, DAA or to score damage and oki (2h>Imperial Ray lol)

Char specific details:

His 2k will whiff your DAA

Oki him only with ground oki + Fish, if he try to jump out, air throw him

His anti air against Dizzy is retarded, don't try to jump in on him

His 6k and Dandy~h is throw invul, stay away from his pressure

His 5h has upper coverage that lots bigger than it looks and bounce on mid air hit

Knockdown control:

Knowing his BDC timing or FDC range would help, since that's the only thing Dizzy

need to worry on his wake up.

Combos:

His hit box is pretty big, pretty much eating any combos u throw at him >_>

any of this need a correction? since it came down from a loser Dizzy that has 7:3 match up ranking, Slayer Adv on his memory card :8/:

Edit : fixing openers and adding more info on strategy, still need some research, since the Slayer i got casual yesterday probably haven't got used with my new match up strategy and it does work >.>

[excelence]

Been almost 2 years and i still hate this match up =_= ... playing text books Dizzy got me killed

[Kurokun]

I was hoping for a match vid, like if this was in the 'AC: Videos' thread, lol.