[P4AU] Naoto Shirogane - Gameplay Discussion "TIME TO MOVE"

[RWA Announcer]

This stuff sounds great and I really didn't expect them to give us this much, even though I no it's not final yet.  I haven't been keeping up with our Detective Prince too much lately due to playing Adachi, but what's this "last bullet bonus" that's apparently going away in 2.0?  Was there some trick to reduce her cooldown or something after we used all 5 of our shots?

[Kikirin]

If you enter stance when you have only one bullet, hitting the opponent with it takes off more fate than normal. Try it out in training:

 

214A > AAAAA (1 fate)

 

vs.

 

214A > AAAA~D, 214A > A (3 fate).

[TheHitmarkersPro]

So, uh, I sub S. Naoto and occasionally lab a few things up with her, I can do my own variations of the SB combos(netplay warriors can't TC consistently) but I'm pretty damn lost when it comes to the pressure game and what not. 

 

Basically, I have no clue what some decent blockstrings are

 

Someone please lead me in the right direction so I don't lose to everyone who knows how to block autopilot strings

[Syklone]

So, uh, I sub S. Naoto and occasionally lab a few things up with her, I can do my own variations of the SB combos(netplay warriors can't TC consistently) but I'm pretty damn lost when it comes to the pressure game and what not. 

 

Basically, I have no clue what some decent blockstrings are

 

Someone please lead me in the right direction so I don't lose to everyone who knows how to block autopilot strings

Pressure is stagger heavy. And I find it kind of hard to really explain it to people lol, honestly you just gotta go in there and find out what works for you and try things out. But her most notable normals in pressure are 5B and 5C. 5C is a really good pressure tool since it's special and jump cancel-able (and dash cancel-able, if you're into that) and it gatlings into sweep and is also a reverse beat, so things like 5C into 5B are possible. S.Naoto's pressure isn't as good as regular Naoto cause S.Naoto doesn't have the same auto combo.

 

 

So I guess some cool gimmicks would be things like    short hop>J.C>J.214CD into either roll, neutral jump delayed airdash, or just a jump in low. Her short hop J.C is pretty decent if your opponent isn't calling you out on it. Also she gets good reward off successful throw baits, so go for throws. 2[C] is +8 on block so if you get it you are at an extreme advantage. But most important is mixup your blockstrings so you don't get called out and eat a combo. Oh yeah and lastly throw in a couple aim cancels and trap cancels from like 5B and sweep (8 frames of godliness and low profiles).

 

Also 5B>5C>236A=Netplay unblockable

[Reako]

How does Naoto do 214A~C> dash 5C> turn 236236AB.

 

The 236236AB will always fire the ''wrong'' way for me. Any ideas?

[Zeromus_X]

You mean after reversal Awakening super? Do dash 5C, then do TK 236236AB so Naoto turns around to face the right direction.

[Reako]

You mean after reversal Awakening super? Do dash 5C, then do TK 236236AB so Naoto turns around to face the right direction.

Yes, that's what I meant. That will work fine, thank you.

[Syklone]

We're all gonna make it in 2.0 guys. She looks good with that beautiful midscreen combo/damage. Based ASW

[Ichipoo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPRDUA21Img#t=03m47s

 

Comboing off of a ricocheted bullet is the new sexiness now.

 

With this change and the increased damage in midscreen combos, seems like they're really making her play like a glass cannon type (considerably strong offense but weaker defense or health) of character and I think I like that, probably because I've had experience with these type of characters such as Millia and DIO in Guilty Gear and Jojo's Bizarre Adventure: All Star Battle respectively. 

[Kikirin]

Naoto changelog:

 

 

5AAA (normal-type)

• Can chain into AoA and sweep.

• Forces crouching on hit.

 

2C

• Increased untechable time.

• Special-cancelable even on block.

• Lowered opponent float on hit.

 

2[C]

• Increased untechable time.

 

5DD

• Now turns around to attack in opponent’s direction on startup.

 

j.A

• Can only chain into itself up to 3 times.

 

j.D

• Reduced untechable time.

• Improved recovery on hit / block.

 

AoA

• Armor / invincibility earlier in the attack.

• Decreased recovery.

 

Shield of Justice

• Reduced hitstop on catch.

 

Counter Shot and Counter Shot EX

• Startup is slower, no changes to fastest possible follow-up.

• Second hit onwards, takes 1 fate counter? ２ヒット目以降は運命カウンターを１つ減らすようにしました。

• Counter Shot EX no longer wall bounces.

 

Safety

• Overall recovery increased, no changes to recovery of fastest possible follow-up.

 

B Fangs

• If Shadow-type and 0 bullets, auto-combo bonus

 

Various (Air) Fangs

• Increased untechable time.

• No increased untechable time after ground bounce.

• Blowback on hit is smaller for A and B versions.

 

Air B Fangs

• Increased landing recovery.

 

Air SB Fangs

• Faster fall speed, lowered hitbox of second hit.

 

Various Zappers

• Reduced poison effect time.

• Faster startup of D and SB versions.

• Faster persona movement speed of D and SB versions.

• Increased untechable time of D and SB versions.

• Opponent doesn’t float on hit during rush/charge portion of D and SB versions.

 

C Zapper

• Smaller blowback, higher float.

 

D Zapper

• Reduced recovery.

 

SB Zapper

• Naoto doesn’t experience the hitstop of the attack.

 

Remaining Bullets

• Bullet recovery begins when stance is exited.

 

Various Shooting Stances

• Using B and SB Stance during stance starts the bullet recovery, similar to as if it were exited.

 

A Stance

• Can quickly transition into various shots.

• Removed advance input of A Stance.

 

B Stance

• Projectile invincibility added to second half of movement.

 

SB Stance

• Fatal recovery removed.

 

Various Shots

• Can quickly perform different shots.

• Can cancel into B and SB Stances.

• Removed bonus fate reduction from entering stance with one bullet remaining.

• Reduced recovery of final A/B/C shots and various SB shots.

 

Forward Shot (A Shot)

• Can hold 4 during auto-combo to prevent accidental use of super.

 

SB Forward Shot

• Faster startup.

 

Anti-Air Shot: Normal and SB (C Shot)

• Final shot bounces off wall and ceiling.

 

Special Shot: Normal and SB (B Shot)

• Reduced recovery.

• Bigger blowback.

• Increased knockback on block.

• Reduce untechable time on SB version.

 

Various Megido

• Now always takes fate on hit. (Were there situations / bugs where it didn't?)

 

C Megido

• Fate reduction is 3.

 

SB Megido

• Reduced recovery on ground version.

 

SP Pistol A

• Untechable time due to proration reduced? 補正によって受け身不能時間を減少するようにしました。

• Increased untechable time.

• Decreased Mute duration.

 

SP Pistol B

• Fate reduction for second use is 1.

• Decreased Fear duration.

 

SB Pistol

• Slower startup of second (shotgun) portion.

• Increased recovery.

 

Hamaon and Mudoon

• Removed fatal recovery.

• Untechable time due to proration not reduced? 補正によって受け身不能時間を減少しないようにしました。

• Mudoon faster startup.

• Mudoon continuation/duration (active frames?) increased.

 

Raid

• B Shots take 2 fate counters.

 

Critical Shot

• Fatal recovery.

 

Some Persona Attacks

• Persona invincible up until attack startup. (5C, 2C, j.C, various Zappers)

[Ichipoo]

I am liking this. 2.0 is looking like a whole different game right now.

[RoanYagyu]

jA change removes non fear fuzzy ?

[Doonpa]

jA change removes non fear fuzzy ?

 

Fuzzy should be intact assuming you do j.AAAB instead of j.AxN until you land. The limit on j.A should only apply to itself, not to her ability to chain into other things hopefully lol

 

Working on a write up about her change list because I have a lot of ideas right now lol 

 

EDIT: Naoto change list impressions: http://pastebin.com/gUFgkYd4

[RoanYagyu]

Fuzzy should be intact assuming you do j.AAAB instead of j.AxN until you land. The limit on j.A should only apply to itself, not to her ability to chain into other things hopefully lol

Working on a write up about her change list because I have a lot of ideas right now lol

Ahh ok I wasn't sure off the top of my head whether you needed 4 jAs or 3 before the jB

[RWA Announcer]

Gotta agree with Ichipoo on this one.  I absolutely ADORE the Glass Cannon archetype, and since Liz, at least in my mind, doesn't really fit that role anymore, I'm glad that Naoto's going in that direction, on top of retaining what initially attracted me to her in the first place: the fact that she's just a well-balanced J.O.A.T., who can do a bit of it all, without being super weak or crazy strong.  (Like Yu!)  I am a little concerned about how less time on Status Ailments could impact Shadow Naoto, but with the general changes to that group, she'll probably remain as vicious as ever, if not becoming even MORE viable when you give her all of these buffs on top of that!  Above all else, I'm STOKED that Naoto, and Elizabeth for that matter, seem to be comfortably settling into some clearly defined niches with proper gameplans, as opposed to be a random assortment of tools.  2.0 looks like a whole new world, and I'm READY for it!

[Zeromus_X]

Naoto looks super strong and easy in this version. My body is ready for 2.0.

[Syklone]

Dp is even more butt. Never used that trash anyways. Fucking CH recovery and you lose a P card. Fuck that. Also it looks like fatal zapper loops may be gone or they've changed at least. B-but we're still gonna make it guys.....r-right???

[Sashi]

SP Pistol B

• Fate reduction for second use is 1.

 

RIP SNaoto. Can't be a scumbag anymore.

 

EDIT: Actually, does it affect SB version?

[Zeromus_X]

FC Blight loop might be gone, but now we can just combo into poison off regular BnBs which is pretty cool.

[RoanYagyu]

If shotgun still removes 6 when used once in a combo (as in say shots into shotgun still taking 7) then maybe instead of using shadow burst to take all at once it'd be better for using it really early on such as day 5b 5c 2c shots ricochet then back 5a 5c burst sb gun maybe sb fang beforehand for some carry.

[Kikirin]

Were there scenarios before where traps weren't properly taking fate counters (reduced amount or otherwise)? If not, that could mean traps now take off the full fate amount regardless of when they are used in the combo (if the notes are interpreted correctly) . This could be huge for using them mid-combo, albeit I'm not altogether familiar with whether there are many routes that can squeeze them in at the moment.

[Ichipoo]

CH C/D trap starter > 2[C] > 5C > j.B > j.C > dj.B > dj.C > air fangs > opponent hits a C trap that was set earlier

 

There, that's 7~8 fate counters already lol. #TheoryFighter

[Ninjaelephant]

i don't think many of you realize what 2 fate off B shots from raid means

2C > gunshots > sb raid will take off 12 fate

[RoanYagyu]

i don't think many of you realize what 2 fate off B shots from raid means

2C > gunshots > sb raid will take off 12 fate

I was thinking this after though if only the first shot takes 2 then the rest one (like shotgun is guessed at working like) then it'll take 6. So a more dmging shotgun but less of a setup after? Time will tell :X (or video showing of all changes instead of a few though being hopeful for some extreme stuff is fun)

[Doonpa]

Were there scenarios before where traps weren't properly taking fate counters (reduced amount or otherwise)? If not, that could mean traps now take off the full fate amount regardless of when they are used in the combo (if the notes are interpreted correctly) . This could be huge for using them mid-combo, albeit I'm not altogether familiar with whether there are many routes that can squeeze them in at the moment.

 

I want to say that the case is that if you combo into traps, they will do the same amount of fate they would if they were the combo starter. If thats the case, then its a good buff for Naoto for sure. Corner throw combo i.e Throw~follow up, C trap, D trap, j.C j.236A 2B 5C 236B~C shots 6D would do like 9-10 fate which is huuugee for no meter, though its character specific. 

 

Also another thing to keep in mind about B shots from Raid is that the proration on them is pretty bad, especially at the end of decently long combos (P2 of 400 for each shot IRPRIRPIRPRIRP). So sure, off short combos doing something like 2C, SB raid, B shot x 5 would maybe connect fully, but its probably not gonna be something that can be consistent unless you do it asap. But if they do adjust the proration to match A shot, then I can see this being a possible viable replacement for AHAHAHAHAHAxN. I still want to say that the untechable time nerf on SB B shot, shotgun nerf, nerf to follow up potential after SB Gun super, unlisted changes on proration/combo rates, unlisted changes to health, and meter gain adjustments to shadow characters might make regular Naoto stronger this time around but only time will really tell with respect to that.