Dizzy vs Ky

[bizarro]

[excelence]

Stats

imo 5/5... Ky actually does great damage on his combos v Dizzy

Openers

Block

his f.s > tk bubble, Back dash anything and trade for 2s

his GS > iad backward

Punishes

Ib the 1st hit of his SD, he has the frc point after it, but u also got a mind games on it

Option:

-. 2hs(ch) > raw sd/he frc and 2p or gs or whatever

-. dash throw > he frc and block

Counters

Dizzy - Ky

yomi

f.s > GS

tk Bubble > SD

most of the time i wouldn't reccomend to try counter his moves as it has good hit box or frc feint

Anti-airing

2s for any normal jump in, ase will pawn this option thought

air Throw

he can bait your F.s/Imperial Ray with air dash and RTL take caution on this one

Zoning

DON'T THROW A FISH ON NEUTRAL! avoid his SE first then throw and buffer the air pike before u throw a fish ... his f.s is a part of his body, that mean u can ch it with ice spike/2hs if his spacing is bad

Their game plan

Zone, zone, zone & corner Stun whatever rape, aggro Ky is an easy target for throw btw

Strategy

Ky has a good all around moves it's very hard to punish most of it if he space it right (not to mention most of it was a frame trap bait ) ... i would suggest be patient and try to get the fish out and score an air throw on him

Char specific details

all of his low option can be dashes through. i mean ALL!!!(2k,2s,2d,sd) lol.

after throw u can just ice spike him to guaranteed knock down and fish reset giving him a really hard time on pressure.

all his FB must be blocked with fd while mid air

Knockdown control

err, whatever the only thing Dizzy fear is Potemkin Buster reversal

Combos

her basic corner fish setup works

knock down hs~p_fish,2k,laser...

mid screen

2h(ch),hs_fish,2h,laser,air pike ...

corner dust combo

5d,[9]hs,bubble,j.s+bubble poop,(land) j.s,djc j.p,j.s,j.d

extra notes:

SB the last hit of his non frc cse on his oki games to score a throw ... it's hard thought

[Gonzales]

just wanted to add a little note Ky can use his slide move(forgot what it was called) to avoid some of your fish options like H laser. Not only that if he FRC's it he can get a combo so just be aware of it and remember that its negative on block unless he FRC's it

[excelence]

only the 1st hit of the SD can avoid the laser fish. on oki, 2k pressure will score a nice ch combos on reversal timming and forgot to add, don't burst out his VT loop

[Gonzales]

i've tried dashing thru his 2S it still hit Dizzy has anybody confirmed that you can actually dash througth cause 've tried it doest seem to work for me

[excelence]

what? ... i'll double check on that

[excelence]

yep, she can't dashing over Ky 2s ... i think i'm doing it just when the active frame just finished and giving an illusion i'm dashing over his 2s

[Stag.S]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU6h1ILg_Gk&feature=channel_page

What would a Dizzy do againt a zoning Ky though.

[excelence]

my thought 0:07 -> i've said i hate his f.s opener 0:27 -> pretty bold op against Dizzy tick throw, but it works (his 2p will give extended hit box for throw) 0:29 -> neutral tech recover without FD, Dizzy got hit which she shouldn't 0:41 -> problematic fuzzy guard setup, Ky whiffed j.p, makes it hard to block 0:45 -> again falling in the same hole Round 2 -> LOL ... i've been there for quite sometimes... everything is yomi on this games XD 2:57 -> ugh he got his game rolling from here on 2:58 -> another aerial option that need to take notes j.p(whiff)>ad j.s 3:01 -> imo when u got hit by combos it's much better to hold 4 for block

[excelence]

The guide need to be revised... Thought #R is right at the corner... SE harrasment on neutral destroy Dizzy and without tension there's very little thing she can do out of air pike & air grab.

Got 0:3 time out games yesterday

[Destin]

The guide need to be revised... Thought #R is right at the corner... SE harrasment on neutral destroy Dizzy and without tension there's very little thing she can do out of air pike & air grab.

Got 0:3 time out games yesterday

Dizzy has an option on neutral, the japanese get around it by mixing up their SE's, but against lesser ky's you can at certain distances IAD at the right height over and jump P into combo. It was VERY important in slash, but can still be done in AC (ass core) and +R.

[excelence]

What do you mean with "Lesser Ky" ?... On this matchup I feel like Dizzy can't win unless she's willing to take a risk.

The Ky I go against has patience of a Budha... He will not mix me up or pressure me closer than 5k range. Since when the mix up fail at that range. Dizzy will be at huge advantage to reverse the pressure... He only aim for time out win... I can say the flow of this match is very close to Dizzy vs Pot.

[Kurokun]

He probably means a Ky player who isn't that experienced, compared to other players that are more knowledgeable and are of a higher skill level.

It sounds like that Ky player doesn't feel the need to push the action, unless the opportunity presents itself to him.

I would venture a guess that he likes to play at (long) range and harass you from afar, rather than engage at close-range or even mid-range?

You might have to go 'aggro' and RTSD to get around SE stuffs to push for an advantage against his particular fighting style (behavior).

If you were to engage him at close-range (via RTSD), would he fight you there (since you approached him) or would he try to push you away (or run away) in order to fight you at a longer range, which would seem to be more favorable to him?

It would be interesting to see a reversal of the match flow, where you do damage and do runaway stuffs and he is the one who has to engage you instead.

If only there was a vid of the match in the AC: Videos thread, lol.

[excelence]

If I ever engage him in close quarter... 1. My yomi is good and beat him to death with corner oki ... 2. I fail and he punish my rtsd then goes back to square one... 3. We get neutral in close quarter then he start blowing tension to push me back.

I'll try to post some vid, hopefully next week.

[Kurokun]

1 - Best scenario for Dizzy offense.

2 - How bad is the RTSD punish? something like: AA 6P into VT Loop/air combo, ground combo, throw combo/OD

3 - Tension stuffs: ODs and FB usage to escape from close range or defensive measures?

Does he go for oki if/when he gets KD or does he just attack from range?

It seems like if you RTSD and manage to fight him at close range; you'll either have the opportunity to win (via oki/mixup), he'll punish your RTSD attempt (for damage) then runaway, or do something with tension to GTFO of there.

How big of a life lead does he have when he goes for a timeout win?

I would guess that he harasses/punishes you, then turtles/runaway?

[excelence]

2. 6p/2h/j.k all lead into vt loop and kd + shave. Nearly half of Dizzy lifebar

3. No OD stuff, the pay off is too much when it fail, SE frc and FB frame trap or just get away fast from necro grab reversal range.

If he get KD, obviously he go for meaty and chip damage then back to SE harras.

The life lead sometimes is huge sometimes just hairline difference, what I mean this match up close to Di v Po match up is, situation can get downhill crazy fast.

And yeah his gameplan is getting the life lead and punish my rtsd.

[Kurokun]

He's playing rather effectively, shoto-esque (like Ryu) even.

Goes for things (combo/damage) when the opportunity arises, then goes back to playing a ranged game with SE stuffs.

And he's only going for timeout wins, rather than kill/finish? Interesting.

I will likely have to see a match vid to be able to give more insight on this particular match-up of yours.

[Destin]

"lesser kys" put SE's in places where you can IAD them. Use them too often to create pacing and give you time to focus on reacting them. That's the thing, most SE's are reactionable with an IAD punish, but if the ky is good he is using them infrequently enough that it's difficult to do that.

Ky can also react a lot of your offense. But with proper mixing, it should be much more difficult for him to do so. I don't really have your trouble with this match so it's hard for me to say.

[excelence]

http://youtu.be/Qp0mkLYtkC4

http://youtu.be/-AVknCaBRkA

http://youtu.be/72W5wwgpk2U

Few matches of me vs that Ky ... it's kind of better than the last time i posted here.

And sorry the video takes long to takes... since shit happen and we can't do our usual gathering this past few weeks.

[bizarro]

You're handling him just fine, I see a lot of good responses you have on defense. Right now he has a slight advantage but just a few suggestions will give you the advantage:

- Try using f.S into icespike whenever he is airborne. Not using f.S will always let him have a free tech, and Dizzy needs those knockdowns. I see you using a lot of 5H > icespike.

- After you throw, try using dash > 2K > f.S > icespike. You're using 2P and it gives him a chance to tech out either before icespike, or after icespike (I see lots of opportunities for him to tech that he didn't take)

- After you combo into icespike, you summon laser fish and airdash in with a j.S . Try using a j.H, I think you'll like it better.

- You can backdash out of a lot of the midscreen okizeme he's using on wakeup (you're lucky he's not doing mixup okizeme!)

Just these minor changes will give you a lot higher win ratio vs. his Ky

[excelence]

- After you throw, try using dash > 2K > f.S > icespike. You're using 2P and it gives him a chance to tech out either before icespike, or after icespike (I see lots of opportunities for him to tech that he didn't take)

This actually frustrate my tech trap reset, he delay his tech on purpose to avoid that.... so i just take that ice spike damage >.>.

- You can backdash out of a lot of the midscreen okizeme he's using on wakeup (you're lucky he's not doing mixup okizeme!)

Which mid screen oki, u're talking about?

Thanks bizarro, i'll try your suggestion with f.s and j.hs.

Btw on ps3 ver ... dunno because of the tv or what ... GS is nearly an unblockables overhead for me

[bizarro]

Which mid screen oki, u're talking about?

http://youtu.be/-AVknCaBRkA?t=7s

Sometimes he does an air charged stun edge too high off the ground, or just a bit too far away, or just a bit too late, you can try a wakeup backdash in these cases. Most of the time you will either succeed or just block on wakeup so almost no risk.

[bizarro]

Nevermind, please do not take my advice on backdashing acse, it only dodges it initially but on your landing you'll get hit by all 3 se's

[excelence]

That's why i'm confused lol, u can back dash it if he time it wrong, but he rarely do it wrong XD

[bizarro]

So I stayed up late into the night figuring out whether slashbacking the ACSE was a viable option. It turns out that YES, it's not too hard and after an hour of practice I was able to do it successfully about 70% of the time. If you're willing to put the time in I see this as a game changer if your opponent uses ASCE okizeme all the time.

A few tips for pulling this off:

• Standing block vs. crouching block have different rhythms.
  
  • If you're standing, the 3 hits hit you at a much slower and uneven rate (pause between 1st and 2nd hit much greater than the pause between 2nd and 3rd hit). If you're crouching, the 3 hits hit you at a much faster BUT ALSO much more even/predictable rate.
    
    
  • As with all slashbacks, you want to slashback the last hit so your opponent won't be able to react. If you slashback the 2nd and 3rd hits, your opponent may see it coming.
    
  • Block at least the first hit in a crouching position, for 2 reasons:
    
  
  
  1. As long as you block the first hit in crouching position, even if you stand for the 2nd and 3rd they will still hit you at the same fast rate, so it will be easier to time your slashback.
     
  2. Since they hit you much faster, you'll be able to slashback the last hit much faster, giving you more time to punish/escape.
     

  [*]The timing of the slashback is such that you hit S+HS immediately after the 2nd hit registers. The 3rd hit comes really quick so you'll need to be sure you slashback early enough.

  Once you get the timing down and can successfully slashback that last hit, a good followup is either backdash, jump, or TK bubble (harder, and riskier if he follows up ASCE with S or 6P instead of going low). However be wary about punishing, on his whiff he'll still have time to block your punish attempt.

  EDIT: If he always follows up with a low 2K, you could try dashing forward as a followup and then when his 2K whiffs, just grab him. Haven't tested yet.

  I'm finding that this slashback timing is a lot easier than his other blockstrings, since with those you have to look carefully to see which normals he's using, and work hard at predicting what will come next (the only one I can slashback on reaction would be 6H). With ACSE Okizeme you know that it is coming, so it's just a matter of timing, no predictions needed at all.

  His ground CSE is also a viable slashback opportunity.