[+R] Johnny vs Chipp

[4r5]

[Tsukahara]

How do you guys feel about this matchup?

I finally got a chance to play our Chipp player in my scene last night for a few hours and it felt pretty rough. Note the giant blurb below.

I had some trouble with this matchup in AC, and +R feels like it's both easier and harder and the same time.

Pro's from +R

-Up coin feels like it shuts down a lot of his air movement. At least the Chipp in my scene loves to fly around and this helped stop some of that double jump airdash movement.

-Slightly higher launch lets me nail the optimized MFlvl2(S) j.k > j.s > j.s >j.h KJ blah blah ender for around 70-80% life/recoin much much easier

-Because return jack is now unburstable, I've used it to punish backdashes if I need a level 2

-if I catch him with a 6p or with something in the air, the Air super lets me get back to the ground to get level 2 (super, 6k, upcoin usually)

Cons (Our Chipp player has steadily gotten better as well, so some of this I might have just not had to deal with in AC)

-Command Grab.... I used to 5p > Coin for a free level 2 every time I saw him use this in AC, but in +R the only thing I have managed to beat it with is reaction super. It just feels... really really hard to punish and way more invulnerable. I tried just IAD'ing away, but he recovers quickly and teleports as soon as he does just to end up back in my face. I tried neutral jumping, he recovers and jumps for a free air grab. Maybe I should be punishing with TK Divine blade? I didn't try it in last nights set, but next time I will see if it works out. Plus I'm still way to free to this in general, so that's something I will have to work on. Maybe I should just backdash this? I tried a few times, but if done to early I still get grabbed.

-6P... His 6P is on par with Ky, and it feels like he can just run up and do it as an opener for free. It outranges my 2k, and I feel too slow trying to react with 2s (maybe I just need to do this faster) and flat out beats f.S, 5k and 5H feels like too big of a risk as he is fast enough to capitalize on that whiff very easily.

-Teleport.... Man... teleports... I feel like its just a 3 way guess everytime. If I see him appear above me, 6p on reaction seems to lose most times, coin can work sometimes, but if he teleports somewhere else then you lose. I tried option selecting close slash and throw, but teleport throw still catches me. (Maybe I just need to work on doing this faster? Sometimes I try and do it too fast and SB by accident before I move my 4 input to 6, so maybe this is viable and I'm just too scrubby still)

So I started trying to backdash/forward dash out of teleports to some degree of success, but it didn't feel reliable.

-Alpha blade... catches me at almost full screen any time I try and dash forward predictably

-Sweep

His sweep is really far reaching and you always need to be watching for it

I guess I only really got to play him for one long set so I don't have that much experience against him yet. We recorded our set and will probably put it up in a few days or so, so I will go back and watch what I'm doing more closely and I might put that up to show what I was having issues with/ask for critique on how I'm playing the matchup...

TL;DR

I do huge damage, but feel like his neutral and teleports give him huge advantages that I'm not totally sure how to deal with reliably.

[qwerty]

Because return jack is now unburstable, I've used it to punish backdashes if I need a level 2

Huh? You do realize Killer Joker will catch backdashes, right? Even then, there's definitely better ways to beat backdash mashing (dash 2K, dash upcoin, etc).

if I catch him with a 6p or with something in the air, the Air super lets me get back to the ground to get level 2 (super, 6k, upcoin usually)

Counter hit 6P leads to a free MF loop, even at Level 1.

6P -> upcoin -> 3H 5/6H -> HMF -> coin xx dash 5H HMF x2 -> dash IAD KSDE

It sounds like you're trying to chase Chipp, when the most reliable strategy is to force Chipp to come to you. You should be staying on the ground and making sure he respects High MF, upcoin and airthrow. Once he's on the ground, you're playing a 5K/2S kind of game, not 5K/f.S.

One thing I will say is that when you do get Chipp blocking, you want to keep him there for as long as possible. If it means spending three or four coins to get him to the corner, then so be it. Cranking up his guard bar even a little will go a long way in increasing your random hit damage.

6P can be dealt with a number of ways. If 2K or 2S is losing, that means you're either timing it way too late or at a frame disadvantage where you shouldn't be pressing buttons, anyways. That being said, you can call out run up -> 6P with 2H, then RC in to damage. As far as 6P anti-air goes, you can doublejump -> j.H, DB or Unchou.

As for teleports, it depends on how he uses them. At neutral, you can preemptively High MF, coin/upcoin or 5P if you have an idea where he's gonna end up. If you're talking about teleports being used in pressure, then your options are more limited, so long as he's not leaving huge gaps in his pressure. I don't recommend trying to beat teleports during pressure until you're more familiar with playing defense in those situations. It's more important to be able to block and get out of bad situations than it is to beat something that might not even work.

From what I'm gathering, you need to work on your spacing. I suggest watching some matchvids and trying to recreate situations you observe in training mode. Improving your defense will come in due time, and improving your sense of spacing will actually help with that a lot, too. Keep at it!

[Tsukahara]

Video of our 2nd hour of casuals from a few weeks back is up finally.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK7-a2Daw_E

Towards the end of this set it started getting closer to even, and I started using up coin more against him. I'm still crazy free to teleport grab and command grab oki though... and I was really trying to get better at air grabbing him when he jumped on me in the corner, to very little success I'd like to note... Also damn, reviewing my own gameplay finally as I've never been able to see my replays until now... I really need to work on my confirms in this match. I keep getting hits but not turning them into anything. Guess I'm going to go spend some more time grinding.

Also general Johnny critique would be appreciated, although this feels like the sloppiest of my play, and I see a lot of stuff I usually don't drop as often.

Plus all the flashy stuff I tried pretty much all blew up in my face. (ie trying to Jackhound/Return jack to kill him out of a burst, and then getting ahead of myself and doing it too fast, trying to return jack him out of alpha blade landing for the lols, etc)

In reply to qwerty above:

I caught a few backdashes with killer joker transport, but a lot of the time it's not him mashing, just doing stuff like teleport -> blah blah pressure -> and then backdash back to neutral and jump away shuriken, etc. He doesn't do pressure for very long, and then just takes off. I feel like if I tried KJT to catch him I would have to hard call out when he was abandoning his pressure to take off. Maybe I'm just not reacting fast enough....

6P only leads to mistfiner loops if you hit them in front of johnny's body. Most times I land 6P when Chipp is pretty much inside me, and upcoin at that point gets level 2 instantly without extra damage. Although I'm sure I probably could have started a few MF high loops but didn't.

You can pretty much watch the video above to see how he uses his teleports. For the first while I just spent a long time trying to find ways that actually beat it, because I feel like just neutral teleport behind should be super beatable. I catch him with coins a few times, but I miss just as many times if not more.

Hmm I definitely do think I need to work on my spacing for the matchup, but I'm not quite sure how. It just feels like he has such a strong control over the pace of the match and the spacing for the most part.

Are there any good places to find Johnny sets vs specific characters? I watch a lot of the Satou sets but it seems like 1/50 is vs chipp if that.

Thanks for the tips! I will definitely keep grinding against him with those in mind going forward.

Edit: Also damn I never realized I used 5H as much as I did in this match set.... I gotta stop that habit. Geez I just keep pushing buttons like an idiot trying to swat him out of the air, and I'm super exposed for it.... I didn't feel like I was doing it so much. That's definitely going to change. Think I'll definitely try to focus on defence going forward while looking for openings rather than just swinging blindly like an idiot at a chipp that is never there. Plus work on airdash confirms....

[Mitsurugi]

Hello, fellow gentlemen (^_^)b

I unfortunately have no +R experience and had little in vanilla AC against Chipp. However after watching your first matches in the vids, a few pointers. Youtube acts strangely on the currently used computer so can't watch the full hour. As usual, those only reflects my point of view and may not work for you or even be legit. Or some pointers I sometimes forget to use myself :

- Sometimes when against the corner, when Chipp is high above and not falling on you, you still kept the back direction pressed whereas you could have dashed forward or maybe just walked forward in order to escape or maybe try an up coin (214H). It is very noticeable as we can easily spot the JO animation of walking backward for a relatively long time.

- I saw you meaty with 3H on his wakeup but way too close to him. Be careful as he could have performed a reversal Beta Blade, FB or normal, and beat you. Beta Blade is his Dragon Punch.

- A good Chipp player whom I unfortunately could play only a handful of matches, once told me Johnny players should use more 2H in order to stop Chipp from pressuring too easily. Of course you have to be cautious and not randomly mash it as the huge recovery will get you killed. Nonetheless he is right as it helps you get the Chipp to respect you.

- Have a more active defense, namely use FD and IB according to the situation and to what you want to do, either increase the pushback and make his pressure harder for him or recovering faster in order to counter or escape. SB when you know what will come to you and how you will punish, weighing the pros and the cons. Though I still think SB should not be your primary tool, first focus on the others then when confident enough, delve into SB. If I recall correctly, his rekkas are more or less easy to SB.

FD jump, which was erroneously named 1-frame jump some times ago, should help you escape too.

Also, IB (and SB though don't focus on it too much first) helps increasing your Tension pulse thus your Tension. And Johnny badly needs it whether for combo, movement, defense, reversal etc.

By the way, most of the time FD should be tapped, not hold or else you'll just ask to be thrown. That sounds obvious but in the heat of the action, especially when under pressure and/or against a stronger opponent, one might forget it.

- When he is teleporting at neutral, I would personnally use preemptive 2P (maybe 5P too?), in case he teleports right next to you, if not you should be able to recover fast enough and block.

Or jump backward with either a j.P (safest, does not need a good reading) or an airthrow attempt if you anticipate a 22H. If he teleported above you, then you beat him. If he stayed on the ground, you should whiff but without being as exposed as a MF for instance since you would be in the air going away. At least I used that in vanilla AC, don't know how it is still useful or not in +R. That also means you can hold your own when in the air and Chipp is on the ground, protecting your area should he want to airthrow or hit you (j.P, j.K, KJ, DB combined with your second jump movement option etc).

- On that matter, in general and not even Johnny specific, when empty jumping, try to input j.P or j.K while ascending. Should the Chipp still stay far away, you will "whiff" but recover fast enough. Should he suddenly rush you or teleport, you might hit him. It also helps with the timing of certain setups.

- Already mentioned earlier, f.S tends to whiff a lot against him so using it less than in other matchups is recommended.

- Though it is one kind of playstyle of this matchup and other players might not feel the same, I agree with Qwerty for the chasing part. Don't go after him, instead let him come to you. However you should have strong spacing, zoning etc to back you up. Know extremely well the range, hitbox of your normals and specials to use them to the fullest. If he succeeds to close the gap and get into you, good and active defense will turn the tides and you will get your turn to press or hit him. Easier said than done but it will come with practice and you are lucky enough to have a Chipp player in your area so keep it up and don't despair (^_^)b

Except of course if the Chipp player has the life lead and aims for the timeout, in that case you will have to hunt him.

- After a throw or a combo, if you don't know, can't do it because of the setup or don't feel confident enough to perform the 1-hit ender, there is no shame RC-ing. It will allow you to keep the momentum and the opponent against in the corner with frame advantage. Getting the knockdown and/or have the opponent against the corner is very important for Johnny, moreso in matchups where the opponent is really hard to touch hit or block, such as Chipp or Millia.

Sorry if it is not that much or if you even corrected and use those in your other matches.