Millia vs. Order Sol: This match is even more S.O.L. than the other one...

[AKA]

Order-Sol is probably her new worst matchup. You can't do anything on the ground and your best interruptor/low poke (sweep) gets beaten by not only 5H (at max range, wow look at that!), but Fafnir (low invincibility). Slower 5P means anti-air would be harder if it already wasn't impossible (low jump j.H is like a better Slayer j.H. No option beats this if you react to his jump). His run is faster than normal Sol's, so you can't Iron Savior any sweep attempts on reaction to his run because the speed difference (and Order-Sol's sweep moving him forward) means the sweep will win. He gets half-life+ off of all of those CH's which he uses as part of his normal space control and offensive hit-checks. Be prudent. Baiting uppercuts with airdash crossups is risky, because his 5H (comes out if he tried uppercut but failed) will CH anything you do on the other side on an option-select offense. 2D, running 236H, 2369P loses if he does 5H at the same time you do 2369P. I'm pretty sure far S beats your sweep too (why use that though when he has 5H CH CC running crouch combo for half-life?) at arbitrary distances. All in all it's like they toned down Millia's anti-air against a souped-up Chipp + Slayer combo. It's definately winnable, but you have to take the definition of "careful" to new levels, and even then you better hope he's not familiar with your mixup patterns/guess right once you get advantage with a knockdown. Pretty much an all or nothing fight, lots of scrambling going on.

[blitz]

yer right, it's a a frickin slaughter in his favor =\ What she has on him is pin, you have to bait the shit out of his AA with the pin at the correct height (where his 5H will whiff if you do a pin). And then, plan your game around getting that advantage and maintaining it, like a low strong =3 you have to get creative, pin -> turbofall -> FRC, j.K, land, TK badmoon and such, keep em guessing, and always makes sure you have the tension to keep it all safe. The riskier side is that roll will dodge quite a few of his moves, so as long as you aren't being predictable with it, it can be a powerful check on his stupidly good normals.

[TGS]

Placeholder.

[Kane]

This matchup just plain pisses me off. To the point where I end up picking Testy so I can get a win. Any tips for this matchup as to stop me stooping that low?

[zer0kage]

Kane spill the beans. You already took down LM Akira in the last Ranbat.

[LM_Akira]

Kane spill the beans. You already took down LM Akira in the last Ranbat.

Errr yeah when I was playing complete shit and didn't know how to deal with the gayness of roll > throw during an RB.

This matchup is discussed more in the HOS forum. And Kane I don't think you and I have even played this matchup enough yet to fully understand it, let alone get pissed off with it.

[Teyah]

Since I went ahead and started the thread in the OS forums, I may as well copy over the info I posted:

I am transplanting my post to this new thread, as the Media thread probably isn't the right place for this sort of discussion.

On Hoss vs Millia:

Honestly, this matchup is not that balanced - it's easily one of Millia's worst and probably one of Order-Sol's best. It's true that Millia does best in the air, but she has to contend with Order-Sol j.P which is arguably the best air normal in the game in terms of risk/reward. It's not wise for her to throw out j.K, as it's very laggy on whiff, leaving you open for potential j.Ps. Millia can use her own j.P to similar effect, but it's much harder for her to convert into anything meaningful since a gatling to j.K-D requires extreme closeness (j.P CH j.H is possible though). Order-Sol can of course, easily convert to 25-30% damage on Millia via j.K djc. whatever -> SV, or get free pressure on block.

Another problem for Millia players lies in that she can't run her usual long range game, as even that stuff is risky vs OS: he can dash under j.D and punish her on landing recovery, or IAD/jump/running 2S to beat her 2D. 2S in general seems to beat a lot of her pokes, and nets easy, safe damage via 2S CH 6H.

One similarity both characters share is difficulty in AAing: Order-Sol j.H cleanly beats all of Millia's AA if it hits directly above her head, while the same can be said for Millia j.S. Both characters have other options: OS can Gunblaze or j.P for AA, while Millia generally blocks or backdashes for distance. Millia's 6P is decent as AA, but it is very laggy and gets her killed on whiff.

A good portion of this match is generally spent jockeying for air position, with Millia looking for an opening to start ground -> air pressure and mixup, while Order-Sol shuts her down with j.P, leading to either ATG pressure or a basic aircombo -> SV for decent damage. If Millia isn't successful in scoring a hit, she's forced back to the ground and Order-Sol is free to run his superior neutral game.

This post by sanshiki also sums up the thread and agrees with my thoughts on the matchup pretty well:

My personal experience here against Millia players isn't high level but I deal with proper oki and decent zoning so i know whats its like.

Rock It is a decent tool to use as an offensive range poke-special in neutral against Millia.

Its impossible to react to, the most that'll happen to you is a trade, where Millia lands face down and depending on what she used, you will most probably won't be knocked down.

In Slash I used to rely on it to fish for random air counters into a stupid air combo. In AC you get a sliding knockdown which is fairly easy to run after to start your pressure, or if you're very close, you can instead do a S H iad j.p j.h SV combo. Best used in conjunction with f.S, 2S and sweep. Millia on the ground is afraid of fighting footsies because she doesn't want to risk a big CH into stupid damage with high stun or knockdown.

Millia seems to have a little trouble getting that knockdown on the ground doesn't it seem? She wants to try avoid dealing with all those big attacks and focus on one of her strengths, the air pin attack!

Thats one thing that'll give HOS a problem. Once Millia's in the air you'd be waiting for the pin to drop (forgive the pun). But what if she doesn't? You'll have to bust out your anti-airs if she just comes in without it!

HOS has some cool tools to deal with pin-less neutral ground-to-air situations.

like 5H whenever you see Millia somewhere in the 'She's gonna do it!' zone, which is about 2-3 character lengths in the air in front of you. Millia trying to land a j.D knockdown will find herself eating a simple 260 damage combo from a 5H counterhit.

Gunblaze also keeps an aggressive Millia wary in case your 5H gets too predictable and she might throw the pin but didn't. Usually ends in a neutral position again, and she picks up that pin. Hopefully she blocks or gets hit by the flame of pillar, which would be a plus for you.

After all that she finally lands a knockdown on you, because you zoned wrong on the ground or got pin staggered. If on her okizeme you don't Storm Viper into an S disc, there's a fairly good chance you'll get back into neutral position.

And the whole bother for Millia starts all over again.

Its a hard match for her, and its not worked like the 'Insert zone/whore character' vs Pot matchup where Pot gets a rare but solid knockdown and takes 2 big combos to score a round win. She has to deal 3-4 combos to win, which are almost exclusive to oki setups, while all Order-Sol needs to do is to be patient and wait for the many opportunities to escape: after he blocks that mixup, he gets burst back in time for being so hard to kill, or he gets tension to DAA.

Order Sol doesn't need tension all that much to seal the match. Usually you'll find after several gimped j.p comboes on Millia at the start of the match it doesn't take much more to finish her off.

That's about it. Its not impossible for Millia to win, but Order-Sol doesn't have to work hard for the matchup.

[LM_Akira]

I think some things sanshiki has said are grossly overexagerating / over simplifying the matter tho.

Rock It is a decent tool to use as an offensive range poke-special in neutral against Millia.

Its impossible to react to, the most that'll happen to you is a trade, where Millia lands face down and depending on what she used, you will most probably won't be knocked down.

That is nonsense, any character can 6P RI on reaction or sweep it. Try using it vs May and watch HOS die. Now, I've never personally tested Millia's 6P vs Lv1 RI but her sweep has more than enough range to take care of RI.

Millia on the ground is afraid of fighting footsies because she doesn't want to risk a big CH into stupid damage with high stun or knockdown.

What are all these stupid damage/high stun/knockdown combos?

The only thing I can think of is 2S (CH) 6HS RC stuff, which takes lots of resources if you want the damage/knockdown you're talking about. You can't just pull it out of thin air. 2HS on CH gives good return too but how are you going to land 2HS CH playing footsies?

Millia seems to have a little trouble getting that knockdown on the ground doesn't it seem?

In my personal experience, no.

Millia trying to land a j.D knockdown will find herself eating a simple 260 damage combo from a 5H counterhit.

lol so you're talking about doing 5HS (CH) CC as anti air and then following up with a full dust loop into the corner? How often do you actually see this happen?

[Teyah]

That is nonsense, any character can 6P RI on reaction or sweep it. Try using it vs May and watch HOS die. Now, I've never personally tested Millia's 6P vs Lv1 RI but her sweep has more than enough range to take care of RI.

Rock It is 16F startup at Level 1 (slightly more depending on distance), which is pretty much unreactable at neutral, where your eye is not going to be sitting on OS watching for Rock It startup frames with your fingers on 6P. Millia's sweep is also ridiculously slow, at 13F. If done simultaneously it will beat RI, but if RI reaches Millia by the time the sweep comes out, she's getting hit.

What are all these stupid damage/high stun/knockdown combos?

I'm not sure of the ones he was thinking of, but other than 2S-6H RC here are a few realistic, damaging combos that come to mind:

Close 2S-5H-RI (lv2 or lv3) -> aircombo

(CH) Fafnir -> standard followup

Gunblaze (beats or CHs many of Millia's slow pokes; 6P most importantly) -> combo/loop

In my personal experience, no.

Care to elaborate? Millia's neutral game is very weak against OS, he has several ways to punish her 2D/j.D at relatively little risk and she isn't going to win the majority of close poking wars she takes up on the ground. The only reliable way of getting in and getting a knockdown for her is via Pin.

lol so you're talking about doing 5HS (CH) CC as anti air and then following up with a full dust loop into the corner? How often do you actually see this happen?

5H should always CH Millia's j.D if timed/spaced properly. Even a rj.H-D dj.H-D SV is plenty of damage from a hard-hitting unprorated starter like 5H.

[LM_Akira]

Rock It is 16F startup at Level 1 (slightly more depending on distance), which is pretty much unreactable at neutral, where your eye is not going to be sitting on OS watching for Rock It startup frames with your fingers on 6P. Millia's sweep is also ridiculously slow, at 13F. If done simultaneously it will beat RI, but if RI reaches Millia by the time the sweep comes out, she's getting hit.

I play people who 6P my Lv1 RIs on neutral ground quite often. It will depend exactly on how close you are but there are definitely things you can do to stop RI on reaction.

I'm not sure of the ones he was thinking of, but other than 2S-6H RC here are a few realistic, damaging combos that come to mind:

Close 2S-5H-RI (lv2 or lv3) -> aircombo

(CH) Fafnir -> standard followup

Gunblaze (beats or CHs many of Millia's slow pokes; 6P most importantly) -> combo/loop

CH Fafnir is one thing yeah. No HOS play will do 2S (CH) into 5HS tho, or at least they shouldn't be, since 2S (CH) 6HS is a staple thing (RC for combo or else charge or rushdown afterwards). Using GB in footsies? How does that work exactly?

None of those options will give an easy knockdown tho and you're looking at extra resources for these things. It's not like HOS will be always primed with 75% Tension and Lv3 to kill you in footsies.

Care to elaborate? Millia's neutral game is very weak against OS, he has several ways to punish her 2D/j.D at relatively little risk and she isn't going to win the majority of close poking wars she takes up on the ground. The only reliable way of getting in and getting a knockdown for her is via Pin.

The range on 2D is pretty good so if I'm ever caught by a string/gatling I'm almost always being knockdown. Even if 'm up in her ace and think twice about something I'm often swept. But that may be my in-experience with this fight.

On the other hand, getting HOS's 2D to connect can be a right pain in some situations because of it's range.

5H should always CH Millia's j.D if timed/spaced properly. Even a rj.H-D dj.H-D SV is plenty of damage from a hard-hitting unprorated starter like 5H.

I'll experiment with 5HS more then. But that's only in the situations where she's not coming in with a Pin, which isn't that often I find. But making out HOS gets like 260 damage from 1 AA consistently is just daft. And it's not simple lol (unless it's some obscure semi-dust loop into Lv3 special or something.

[reaVer]

If someone is sweeping or 6Ping Ri on reaction, the Ri user is doing something SEVERELY wrong. However, it can happen you're playing a moron, get some space in between you when you expect him to throw out Ri and punish him the moment he does.

If you as a Millia run away and manage to get away at any given moment, you can forget about groundgame pretty much, because at that moment you'll be facing a l3 OS. From there on any attack that hits you will go to 200 easily courtesy of l3Ri/l3SF/l3TR and Millia's poor defense rating. Oh, and in some cases he can even hitconfirm them too.

lol so you're talking about doing 5HS (CH) CC as anti air and then following up with a full dust loop into the corner? How often do you actually see this happen?

How often do you see a Millia dumb enough to throw out a plain j.D against OS?

Now, with that out of the way, there's 2 styles that OS tends to use when facing Millia depending on whether she rushes down or runs away(actually, these 2 styles apply to a lot of characters... but anyways). Level 1 style is rushdown and counter rushdown, if you're rushing down OS will be stuck at l1 but will proceed to demolish your gameplan(SVs!), if he fails to do that, you win. The only damage threats in this style are GB, fafnir, 6P, CH 2D, CH 2S, CH 5H, CH j.D and CH j.H. Generally however, neither of you will be doing a lot of damage on the other so its hardcore mixups and staying ahead of the opponent that count.

If you run away, there's little for the level 1 style OS to demolish so often players try to obtain level 3 and use the abare in that style to hack away at your life bar. So here, the sources of damage are pretty much anything OS hits you with. Though he prefers ground hits over airhits and also knows shenanigans to obtain those groundhits despite you being in the air(its soo easy to forget to FD that l3BRP *HINT HINT HINT*) and if that doesn't work he can still intercept you for free all day pretty much. So generally you should play very carefully and not make converting damage too easy for him(aka, try not to get hit at all).

[Teyah]

CH Fafnir is one thing yeah. No HOS play will do 2S (CH) into 5HS tho, or at least they shouldn't be, since 2S (CH) 6HS is a staple thing (RC for combo or else charge or rushdown afterwards). Using GB in footsies? How does that work exactly?

None of those options will give an easy knockdown tho and you're looking at extra resources for these things. It's not like HOS will be always primed with 75% Tension and Lv3 to kill you in footsies.

2S-5H is probably a better choice to use in close range when you've got level, as it gives frame advantage on block (on the other hand, 2S-6H is -6 / -11 on IB, and non-cancelable) and leads to a tensionless followup for good damage. Also remember that OS doesn't need knockdown in this matchup to do well.

The range on 2D is pretty good so if I'm ever caught by a string/gatling I'm almost always being knockdown. Even if 'm up in her ace and think twice about something I'm often swept. But that may be my in-experience with this fight.

On the other hand, getting HOS's 2D to connect can be a right pain in some situations because of it's range.

While Millia's sweep does have great range, you always need to string 2-3 normals before it to gatling to it, in practical strings. This requires extreme closeness or lots of momentum with moves like running 2K or even 5Sf.

Yeah, I was hesitant to include OS's 2D as a move to watch for, as it can be baited and punished quite hard by Millia.

I'll experiment with 5HS more then. But that's only in the situations where she's not coming in with a Pin, which isn't that often I find. But making out HOS gets like 260 damage from 1 AA consistently is just daft. And it's not simple lol (unless it's some obscure semi-dust loop into Lv3 special or something.

I think that comment was only directed towards beating out Millia's j.D, as a lot of Millias like to spam this move when in the air and Hoss's 5H can kill her for trying. Against other moves, 5H may be too slow or not have the proper angle to hit (OS especially seems to have trouble AAing just above his head, though the same applies for Millia).

[LM_Akira]

2S-5H is probably a better choice to use in close range when you've got level, as it gives frame advantage on block (on the other hand, 2S-6H is -6 / -11 on IB, and non-cancelable) and leads to a tensionless followup for good damage. Also remember that OS doesn't need knockdown in this matchup to do well.

I'll experiment with that then and see how far I get. And as for knockdown, I generally play for it quite often (not as much from air combos where I should be really) but if you're saying HOS doesn't need that vs Millia I'll see how that pans out too.

I think that comment was only directed towards beating out Millia's j.D, as a lot of Millias like to spam this move when in the air and Hoss's 5H can kill her for trying. Against other moves, 5H may be too slow or not have the proper angle to hit (OS especially seems to have trouble AAing just above his head, though the same applies for Millia).

Yes, AAing in this fight is very hit and miss in my experience (excuse the pun). Lv1 GB can be good for AA above HOS's head but it's tricky to land.

[WUT]

For the record, CH 2S leads to combo with Lvl2 RI/TR and Lvl3 RI/BRP/BHB/SF. CH 2S -> 6HS is indeed a Slash staple, but HOS has plenty of options when it comes to following up his CH fishing in ^C. This match is NOT hard. For HOS. Ground footsies are suicide for Millia, and Millia's AtG (her only advantageous poking position) is a guessing game that becomes null and void with j.P spam. A patient HOS poses a big problem for Millia; if he doesn't give her an easy opening/KD then her only means of winning (her oki) isn't a big issue. Knockdowns are always advised. Millia's ability to break out of pressure is mediocre, and HOS' oki is always solid. However, HOS can treat this like he's fighting Baiken/Chipp: if HOS lands a hit, max that damage. Her horrible defense means any combo HOS starts is going to HURT. Personal preference leads me to go for the KD instead, as pretty much any combo HOS lands that leads to a Dust Loop and ends with Lvl2 BRP will deal half damage, making his Oki after a potential round winner. Also, I'd consider HOS' 2D a threatening poke, even if Millia can get a decent punish for baiting/whiffing it. Effective poke (low profile, active relatively quick, deceptive range), 200~ish tensionless damage if he scores a CH, and he gains momentum on guard via CC or special cancelling. 2S, 5/2P, 5K, and 5S(f) are all more annoying when it comes to spacing and poking, but the damage potential is still there and should be considered.

[Luigi-Bo 87]

So that explains why I see 2s and 2d ALL THE TIME when I play OS players. This match reall is a bitch. I learned to get tricky with throws and learn her max throw range, that's the only way I can win against HOS. I get outpoked otherwise.

[krazykorean456]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSMKv7WtZCk&feature=related

More to come.

Thread actually got me ready for Ryan-Bill :P

Much <3 Gaiz :D

[Luigi-Bo 87]

you started off ok.

[ril213]

should also add to most of the info on this matchup though it mitev been mentioned already. do NOT throw out her 2d when hos has 25% meter or more. free CH fafnir nd it leads to high dmg. after knocking down hos he has sum options on wake up being sv nd gun blaze. sv can b baited by haircar frc whiff. u can block the sv in time. as far as AA goes, 6p is a bad option considering j.h stuffs it for free. this matchup is pretty bonkers, but honestly i would take this fight over chipp.

[shezmu]

This could be useful. You need half bar though.