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zer0kage

Millia vs. Zappa: Random! Random! Random! Mamamamama...

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Right guys any info on how to handle Zappa? There is a Zappa player here but I get pummeled because I simply wasn't sure what to look out for back then. From what I can see this is how some players approach the following spirits:- Sword:- Stay away, get him far away if he gets in, look for gaps via the pin and fully capitalize on em. Dog:- Lure the dog away from him and make it chase but a good Zappa player will at times walk with his dog which then makes it quite difficult to get into him or kill the dog. Ghost:- Have no idea but it seems it is very capable of locking Millia down if he has meter.

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I hardly play Zappa, but when I did, iad pin helped out a lot. It ca catch him when he's trying to do a summon attack like throw ghosts or randon sword/dog stuff. It can also kill the dog sometimes. (I'm not 100% on doing it every time though). Sorry, that's all I got.

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alright... to deal with the dog, you stay outside, using 2D, S(f), 5P, and pin. Once inside, lustshaker negates the dog and builds tension/guard gauge. If pin is blocked, don't go on autopilot, you'll just get knocked out of the air by the dog (a really easy way to lose your pin for a good chunk of the match, btw). If you manage to get inside, you need to get an FB disc out ASAP, or a psychic tick throw (roll... which is good for dodging the dogs attacks AND tick throwing at the same time, 236S -> FRC which is good for giving him very little time to react with the dog, etc). People can train themselves to react to roll (as we all know), so don't rely on it, it has to be a surprise. You can also just mix him up before he has a chance to use the dog defensively (he'll be focused on blocking), but it's not a very safe option (which is why I suggest just staying out of zappa's range during this portion of the fight). As for the sword, the sword is FUN! You get to roll past half his approaches for free punishment, the hardslash pin is great for dodging the higher sword moves, and you still stand a chance of just out poking him due to range (2D is bank here, but be careful with it). FD in the air a lot, though. Once you get in, FB disc is great, and you can go to town rushdown-wise, but be aware of his tension and sword-DP (especially with pin or TK badmoon, he'll CH you with a DP then -> FRC, dash -> PAIN + orbs). The ghosts are annoying, but the deal here is to just get close to him, even if that means getting close, and blocking him, over and over. IAD -> FD, dash jump -> FD, iad pin -> FD, etc. Make him waste his ghosts, and then nail 'em with an iad pin when he's got none. You can also roll past his ghostly projectiles if you notice his tension is below 25%, and get some free punishment. Watch for things on the ground and the pebble. If you see yourself having the tables turned on you because of ghost-debris, cancel whatever you are doing into FB disc, it'll save you from zappa ghost rushdown/lockdown. As for zappa in general, use regular disc as little as possible, zappa can crouch/dash under it. If you do, you can lust shaker for a moment to see if he'll dash into it and let you combo off the disc, and also cancel to HAIR CAR to dodge a wakeup centipede if you think he'll do it (with FRC, but well-timed it'll move her hitbox back out of the way, and just smack him during his recovery). Outside of that, you pwn him air <-> air. j.P and j.K and j.D and j.H all have his name on them. Your AA is better, 6P will actually deal with his cross-up j.H if you time it right, but you can also do things like roll -> throw or backdash -> 2D, just instant airthrow, etc. Don't let him CH you with far slash when you wake up. Jump FD or backdash or instant block it and get away/retaliate. if you are blocking the stream and not the puddle, it's easier to deal with. One more thing I guess: S(f) is actually good in this fight, but it has a very specific range and use: To stop zappa's non-punch and non-kick normals, and only from it's max range. Good recovery on whiff though, so it works as a match starter on zappa.

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alright... to deal with the dog, you stay outside, using secret garden, 2D, S(f), 5P, and Pin. If pin is blocked, don't go on autopilot, you'll just get knocked out of the air by the dog (a really easy way to lose your pin for a good chunk of the match, btw). If you manage to get inside, you need to get an FB disc out ASAP, or a psychic tick throw (roll... which is good for dodging the dogs attacks AND tick throwing at the same time, 236S -> FRC which is good for giving him very little time to react with the dog, etc). People can train themselves to react to roll (as we all know), so don't rely on it, it has to be a surprise. You can also just mix him up before he has a chance to use the dog defensively (he'll be focused on blocking), but it's not a very safe option (which is why I suggest just staying out of zappa's range during this portion of the fight).

As for the sword, the sword is FUN! You get to roll past half his approaches for free punishment, the hardslash pin is great for dodging the higher sword moves, and you still stand a chance of just out poking him due to range (2D is bank here, but be careful with it). FD in the air a lot, though. Once you get in, FB disc is great, and you can go to town rushdown-wise, but be aware of his tension and sword-DP (especially with pin or TK badmoon, he'll CH you with a DP then -> FRC, dash -> PAIN + orbs).

The ghosts are annoying, but the deal here is to just get close to him, even if that means getting close, and blocking him, over and over. IAD -> FD, dash jump -> FD, iad pin -> FD, etc. Make him waste his ghosts, and then nail 'em with an iad pin when he's got none. You can also roll past his ghostly projectiles if you notice his tension is below 25%, and get some free punishment. Watch for things on the ground and the pebble. If you see yourself having the tables turned on you because of ghost-debris, cancel whatever you are doing into FB disc, it'll save you from zappa ghost rushdown/lockdown.

As for zappa in general, use regular disc as little as possible, zappa can crouch/dash under it. If you do, you can lust shaker for a moment to see if he'll dash into it and let you combo off the disc, and also cancel to HAIR CAR to dodge a wakeup centipede if you think he'll do it (with FRC, but well-timed it'll move her hitbox back out of the way, and just smack him during his recovery). Outside of that, you pwn him air <-> air. j.P and j.K and j.D and j.H all have his name on them. Your AA is better, 6P will actually deal with his cross-up j.H if you time it right, but you can also do things like roll -> throw or backdash -> 2D, just instant airthrow, etc. Don't let him CH you with far slash when you wake up. Jump FD or backdash or instant block it and get away/retaliate. if you are blocking the stream and not the puddle, it's easier to deal with. One more thing I guess: S(f) is actually good in this fight, but it has a very specific range and use: To stop zappa's non-punch and non-kick normals, and only from it's max range. Good recovery on whiff though, so it works as a match starter on zappa.

Zappa can react to your sacred garden attempts. All he has to do is keep you at a certain distance, and it's easy to do with his dash speed and backdash speed. He can run under sacred garden before you can move it down at this distance as well (blocking low at sweep range). Zappa reacts to you when he has Dog, because he literally has nothing to fear from you running away. The best option is usually closing the gap with him and putting him into blockstun with lust shaker. He can't control the dog because it will vanish, but you're still gaining tension and guard damage through attrition. You also have roll/iron saber options from it, or using the +5 it grants to run in and bait dog by...doing it again or throwing him. Lust Shaker is the only move that you can use to force a reaction when Zappa has dog. Running away only ensures you'll run out of tension (Zappa will not), and prolonging the match (which is only good if you have a lead on life). Which, really, just gives you more time to make mistakes.

Ghosts, you can run under his main bufferable poke (far S). Very important, as once you FD him out to its max range, it's the only move he can do safely if he wants to re-establish pressure with a ghost FRC. Nothing else makes contact except jumping (AA bait) and low HS to control the space in front of him (roll bait).

Sword, yes, is all about superior movement.

Normal disc is an excellent tool to use on oki, but if you want your overhead to combo you must use Bad Moon. Zappa's crouching hitstun is too low to the ground to get a combo off of a meaty 6K from HS disc oki.

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Zappa can react to your sacred garden attempts. All he has to do is keep you at a certain distance, and it's easy to do with his dash speed and backdash speed. He can run under sacred garden before you can move it down at this distance as well (blocking low at sweep range). Zappa reacts to you when he has Dog, because he literally has nothing to fear from you running away. The best option is usually closing the gap with him and putting him into blockstun with lust shaker. He can't control the dog because it will vanish, but you're still gaining tension and guard damage through attrition. You also have roll/iron saber options from it, or using the +5 it grants to run in and bait dog by...doing it again or throwing him. Lust Shaker is the only move that you can use to force a reaction when Zappa has dog. Running away only ensures you'll run out of tension (Zappa will not), and prolonging the match (which is only good if you have a lead on life). Which, really, just gives you more time to make mistakes.

Ghosts, you can run under his main bufferable poke (far S). Very important, as once you FD him out to its max range, it's the only move he can do safely if he wants to re-establish pressure with a ghost FRC. Nothing else makes contact except jumping (AA bait) and low HS to control the space in front of him (roll bait).

Sword, yes, is all about superior movement.

Normal disc is an excellent tool to use on oki, but if you want your overhead to combo you must use Bad Moon. Zappa's crouching hitstun is too low to the ground to get a combo off of a meaty 6K from HS disc oki.

I knew I forgot to mention something... yeah, lustshaker works on dog, which is another reason to use it after Hdisc (incase he wakes up with blocking + dog flip).

On sacred garden: You are thinking in terms of slash or earlier. 1) We have the fakeout and 2) You wouldn't necessarily use it unless you had enough advantage or distance. Fakeout can make him waste ghosts, for one thing (just not when he has one on you already). And I was also refering to SG for oki. Secret garden is better for oki in this matchup than say, Hdisc.

And about the dog: It's not about just getting in, it's about getting in with frame advantage, and with the dog in recovery. Otherwise, you won't have time to lustshaker. That's why you stay away, so you can set-up a way to get in by baiting out dog moves instead of falling into a dog trap. You do iad pin, they are liable to block pin -> do dog flip as you come down, and even if you block it, zappa will turn that into an air to air blockstring and turn that into more pressure. You have to avoid the dog, is all I'm saying. Yes, get IN, but AVOID/DESTROY the DOG while doing so. I play chris too much maybe -_-

edit: I suggest using FB disc if you have to use a disc, and try to keep things DP-safe otherwise. Also, zappa can be nicked by the disc after being poked with a low, but it's timing and spacing dependant.

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I knew I forgot to mention something... yeah, lustshaker works on dog, which is another reason to use it after Hdisc (incase he wakes up with blocking + dog flip).

On sacred garden: You are thinking in terms of slash or earlier. 1) We have the fakeout and 2) You wouldn't necessarily use it unless you had enough advantage or distance. Fakeout can make him waste ghosts, for one thing (just not when he has one on you already). And I was also refering to SG for oki. Secret garden is better for oki in this matchup than say, Hdisc.

And about the dog: It's not about just getting in, it's about getting in with frame advantage, and with the dog in recovery. Otherwise, you won't have time to lustshaker. That's why you stay away, so you can set-up a way to get in by baiting out dog moves instead of falling into a dog trap. You do iad pin, they are liable to block pin -> do dog flip as you come down, and even if you block it, zappa will turn that into an air to air blockstring and turn that into more pressure. You have to avoid the dog, is all I'm saying. Yes, get IN, but AVOID/DESTROY the DOG while doing so. I play chris too much maybe -_-

edit: I suggest using FB disc if you have to use a disc, and try to keep things DP-safe otherwise. Also, zappa can be nicked by the disc after being poked with a low, but it's timing and spacing dependant.

I was referring to SG against Dog, nothing else. I wasn't referring to it as oki either, only as a spacing tool against dog. It's inferior to LS.

The fake will do what? Force the dog to move and you then have...nothing out? Full screen is the only safe time to use this, but no good Zappa will allow you to set that distance up.

LS forces a reaction out of Zappa even if he has the dog, because it neutralizes it. You use it when he does a raw summon with dog after stalling for the timer to get it (much like the SG with proper distance situation).

It sounds to me like the Zappa you play against is too impatient.

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It sounds to me like the Zappa you play against is too impatient.

I don't actually USE SG against the dog, just when I knock zappa down in general. Sorry for the misunderstanding, the offshoot about the fakeout had more to do with specific situations, since I took your comment about the SG as "SG is never useful against zappa", which isn't what you said, but that's the way I took it before I realized I had listed SG against the dog. My bad, carry on.

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Wow Blitz ! Not a constructive comment here but as a reader and not an active actor in this debate, AKA is polite. Perhaps you took it too personally when he said that Zappa was impatient but again, that was just his point of view he clearly expressed politely and with arguments to back him up. As highlighted by Luigi-Bo, the conversation was nice and interesting, don' let ego consideration , misunderstandings, random insults and such tarnish it. ;)

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Ok, Zappa player here. How do I fight this crazy lady? I kind of have to wing it because I don't know enough about her options to know what weaknesses I can exploit as a Zappa player. What does Zappa do that pisses you guys off? Likewise, what moves should I watch out for that you guys like to use against him? What situations do you find Millia to be strongest in here?

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