[CP] Noel Vermillion - Q&A Thread

[SixWingedAngel]

Oh my god

 

they killed noel

 

you bastards

 

 

(I find the removal of 236D wallstick to be a huge nerf)

[LunaKage]

My thoughts: it's only the first loketest, history says that the final version will be vastly different from what we have now. So don't go into panic mode just yet.

[legacy49i]

Here's my thoughts on the matter:

 

http://youtu.be/5wcKpoAQKj4?t=1m35s

[Finuve]

Due to Uniel coming out I've been slacking on my BnB series, but I still have the 1/4 video for Short Starters, so it's definitely a good first place to look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dbbenDVQYI

 

I'm still working on the other videos guys, so don't worry lol.

I finished this video so long ago! I need more!

 

seriously though, this video is about the only reason I have made any progress with combos

[LunaKage]

lol don't worry, patience.

 

Life has been happening, so it's hard to make videos sometimes.

[legacy49i]

When you Guard Crush, do they remain in the same state they were in when blocking (i.e. Standing OR crouching), or will it force one or the other?

I'd check myself but I'm not around my PS3.

[GreeniX]

They stay in the same state, so you need to hitconfirm into 214A on stand hit for optimal damage on the followup and do whatever else on crouch hit (I do 5C 3C into stuff).

[legacy49i]

Is Crush Trigger - Muzzle Flitter a very fruitful combo? How much damage are we talking here?

[GreeniX]

Going straight into Muzzle Flitter from CT makes some magic happen and skips the special proration so you get the usual raw 214A damage, AKA very good damage (a simple midscreen meterless combo grants more than 4k with okizeme). Using anything else than 214A makes it so it's actually hard to get a meterless 3k while still getting a decent knockdown. You can opt to always go for something that works regardless of crouching state, like 5D d.6A d.5B into followup, but if you're able to identify a standing opponent, Muzzle Flitter is the way to go.

[ZerAlizar]

I'm practicing a combo that begins with 5B into 6A, and in training it's fine with consistency and all that, but online it seems like I get within poking distance of the 5B but not close enough to follow up with 6A into sj.C. So I guess my question is what should I be looking for situationally so that the 5B can successfully cancel into the 6A? Both for myself and the opponent

[LunaKage]

You wanna be as close as possible. the combo into 6A is definitely not your spacing combo, a spaced 5B will basically lead into one of these combos:

 

Normal Hit:

5B > 2C > 5C > 236C

5B > 2C > 5C > 236C > Rapid > 66 > 5B > sj.C > j.D > d.6B > d.6C > d.2D > d.6B > 22C~66 > 6C > 6B > 22B

5B > 2C > 5C > Fenrir

5B > 2C > 5C > 236C > Rapid > 66 > 5B > sj.C > j.D > d.6B > d.6C > d.2D > d.6B > 22C~66 > 6C > 6B > 6D > Fenrir

 

Crouching Hit:

5B > 2C > 5C > 3C > 22C~66 > 5B > 5C > sj.C > j.D > d.6B > d.6C > d.2D > d.5C > 22B (wont work on a certain few characters, just replace d.5C > 22B with d.6B > 236D in those cases)

5B > 2C > 5C > 3C > 22C~66 > 5B > 5C > sj.C > j.D > d.6B > d.6C > d.2D > d.5C > Fenrir (Works on everyone)

 

Counter Hit:

5B > 5D > d.6B > d.5C > d.6A > d.5B > 236A > 665B > sj.C > j.D > d.6B > 22C~66 > 6C > 6B > 22B

5B > 5D > d.6B > d.5C > d.6A > d.5B > 236A > 665B > sj.C > j.D > d.6B > 22C~66 > 6C > 6B > 6D > Fenrir

 

The only time you're really going to do the 5B > 6A variation of the combo is if you land a jump in like j.C > 665B > 6A, or if you can punish a blocked or whiffed move with a close range 5B, and even then you'll be doing that if you either know it wont be a Counter hit, or if you DON'T know if it will counter hit, and just want to be safe.

[ZerAlizar]

Thanks! I really appreciate the variation of combos, gives a beginner a lot to work with.

 

Also, for 236A > 665B I can't seem to land the dash fast enough after the Optic Barrel. Is there some sort of cue that i should be looking for? Or is it something that I have to familiarize myself with practice?

 

*nvm, figured it out lol

[crimsonstardust]

I got some questions with anti airing with Noel, I know 6A on paper is her go to anti air but a lot of times I can't seem to use this like some anti airs that hit a little more vertical, I know this is more of the lines of "its mostly about getting the spacing" but there are some angles where some people approach from the air that I can't seem to use 6A for, generally I know this is pretty good at stopping low air dashes and some jump is but when it comes to situations where its pretty above her head I can't seem to find the right moves to stop a lot of these approaches. So besides 6A what are some other anti air options Noel can use?

[Sashi]

Airthrow. Dash under is also a reasonable choice depending on the situation.

[crimsonstardust]

I have a lot of times where I can't airthrow my opponent just cause they coming in with a fast jumping normal or a series of them. /: So by dashing under, is the idea basically just to avoid getting pressured?

[someonewhodied]

for oki with noel, should I be doing 6D>4D>mixup or 4D>2D>mixup after 22B ender?

[legacy49i]

I'd say neither. 5B, 2B, 5A, 2A are safe bets. Starting with Drive is good for trying to call out a DP or something like that, but it becomes a commitment that may bite you in the ass later.

[LunaKage]

I believe he's talking about Drive oki, that goes directly into mixup.

 

In that case you will always be starting with 5D, since 5D in the corner will prevent all rolls.

 

here are your options:

Overhead: (Loses to people who block high, people who are mashing, people who are jumping, and DPs)

5D(Whiff) > d.5A(Whiff) > d.6B(Overhead) > d.5C > d.6D > 236D > 5B > 5C > sj.C > j.D > d.5C > d.6A > d.5C > 22B > 2B > 6C(2) > 6B > 22

 

Low: (Loses to people who block low, people who are mashing, people who are jumping, and DPs)

5D(Whiff) > d.5A(Whiff) > d.6D(Low) > d.6B > d.4D > 214D > 5B/2C > 5C > sj.C > j.D > d.4D > d.2D > d.6B > 236D > 6C(2) > 6B > 22

 

Mashing and Jumping on Wakeup: (Loses to DPs, if the d.6A is blocked, you can revert to normal mixup, but here is the combo if they get caught mashing or jumping)

5D(Whiff) > d.6A(Hits meaty) > d.6B > d.4D > 214D > 5B/2C > 5C > sj.C > j.D > d.4D > d.2D > d.6B > 236D > 6C(2) > 6B > 22

 

Baiting DPs that put your opponent in the air, except for Makoto's DP

5D(Whiff) > d.5A(Whiff) > d.4D > d.2D > d.6B > 236D > 5C > j.C > j.D > d.5C > d.6A > d.5C > 22B > 2B > 6C(2) > 6B > 22

 

Baiting DPs that leave your opponent grounded, like Jin's 623C, or 623D:

5D(Whiff) > d.5A(Whiff) > d.4D > d.6C > 214A > 5B/2B > 5C > sj.C > j.D > d.6B > d.6C > d.2D > d.6B > 236D > 6C(2) > 6B > 22

 

Baiting Makoto's DP:

5D(Whiff) > d.5A(Whiff) > d.4D(Whiff) > Delay d.2D(CH) > d.6C > 214A > 665B > 5C > sj.C > j.D > d.4D > d.2D > d.6B > 236D > 6C(2) > 6B > 22

 

Baiting Tager's 360 and 720:

5D(Whiff) > d.5A(Whiff) > d.2D > d.6C > 214A > 2B > 5C > sj.C > j.D > d.6B > d.6C > d.2D > d.6B > 236D > 6C(2) > 6B > 22

 

Baiting Azrael's Growler:

5D(Whiff) > d.5A(Whiff) > Reload(Growler Whiffs) > 66C(CH) > 214A > 5B > 5C > sj.C > j.D > d.6B > d.6C > d.2D > d.6B > 236D > 6C(2) > 6B > 22

[legacy49i]

Ok, gotcha.

 

I usually do 6D - d.6B with no d.5A inbetween.  Well, that's not the only thing I do, but I find that if the opponent likes to lay, the 6D will reset them, and if they neutral tech, they eat the overhead immediately.  Not sure how it affects a forward roll, though.

[someonewhodied]

with about 3 22B hits, i find that a 6D will catch forward and back rolls and keep them in the corner.

[LunaKage]

6D can be blocked though. I can thank Alpha/Delta for that info. Set your opponent to Roll forward or backward, but also have them set to block everything. You'll notice that they can block the 6D no matter which way they roll, but they cannot block the 5D.

 

The first time this ever happened to me in a match was against Kagura, since my opponent kept holding down-back or down-forward for rolls, since they wanted to keep their flash kick charged, I noticed that he kept being able to block my 6D after rolling, then Alpha confirmed it was just a flaw with 6D due to the speed of the move.

[legacy49i]

That's shit. Does 5D have more active frames or something?

[LunaKage]

5D is 23 frames

 

6D is 26 frames

 

so it's faster.

[legacy49i]

Well then it shouldn't be an issue with the move itself.  It's a timing issue.  6D would work if the person rolled 3 frames later.  Since teching is entirely at the call of the player, whether or not 5D or 6D works depends on your opponent.

 

Are you running on the assumption that the opponent techs at first chance on a Silencer B?  Because what if you don't finish with Silencer?  Or if the opponent doesn't tech right away?  Doesn't 5D go over a downed opponent?  6D will reset them if they're late.

 

My thought process is that if I find an opponent likes to delay tech, I can 6D and either reset, or get overhead immediately on neutral tech.  If they tech right away (i.e. mashing), I usually won't do Silencer finish.  I usually do Spring Raid and reset them with 6C or an air throw.  If they are too unpredictable, I'll finish with Silencer, and keep it safe with A and B pokes.

[LunaKage]

Yes this is from Silencer finishes, you should be finishing with Silencer every chance you get because the oki is better. Ending a combo with Spring Raid is a terrible, terrible idea.

 

6D will pick up an opponent that's just chilling on the ground forever, but no one who is any good will just sit on the ground forever. If you wanted to catch a no-tech, you end with Silencer, then do 662B, since if timed correctly will end up relaunching, and it's much faster than doing 6D.