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LunaKage

[CP] Noel Vs. Mu/u-12 Matchup Discussion

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Discussion About the Mu/u-12 matchup goes here. First post may be edited as important information arises.

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I don't understand how to fight this char at all. She's got so much range on Noel. and if She ever gets close and I block all her pressure she just does that big orb. After the orb I normally just IAD back, but of course that's not where you want to be. Maybe you can 4D it? Also getting hit out of my combos by her 214D (236D?) lazer thing is pretty cool. I seems like if she whiffs a normal she has huge recovery on them. It's hard to get her to whiff something though because her hitboxes are HUGE. Gonna go into the lab with her and will report my findings.

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^By orb do you mean Habaya/236A/electric spark thingy? It's actually risky for Mu to use it in pressure vs Noel as you can 2D over it or 3C under it if you react in time.

Don't be afraid to run up and bully Mu with Noel's runspeed and dash up 2A/5B/5C; you will at the least force the Mu player to watch out for this and change their gameplan, and at most get a CH combo into Noel damage. By all means don't just carelessly YOLO rushdown at Mu, but carefully moving in with dashing barrier and the proper pokes will help a lot. Her 5C has an early extended hitbox which means properly spaced, your run up 2A/2B/5B will beat it out, and if you have a good read, your 3C can slide under it if done early enough. Her Sword of Decimation is another good poke that leads into big damage on CH, but if you block it, she is at a disadvantage (-2 uncharged, -9 charged) which is your cue to go in.

Optic Barrel from fullscreen is good; you won't get much by hitting with it but you will interrupt Mu from going ham with steins at fullscreen and at least force her to block it and stop the steins from firing. Just don't overuse it as Mu can run up and punish you if you use the B version multiple times. Bullet Rain super is another option Mu has to respect once you get 50 meter. It's hard for Mu to really punish it and you force the Mu player to start looking out for it when you have meter.

If Mu fires off Totsuka/236D and you aren't already blocking it, probably the best thing to do is attempt to throw/airthrow her if you are in range. If your throw is successful, the laser will pass through your throw animation and you'll be unscathed. The Mu player can always break the throw if they anticipate this but this is usually better then letting Mu gain the advantage.

On the ground, your 6A is really good to keep Mu from going crazy in the air. Should beat out j2C and poorly spaced stein placements. Don't be afraid to poke with jA or airthrow Mu either, just watch your spacing so you don't get CH by Mu's jC. If you're having trouble getting in from the ground, deep jC is difficult for Mu to anti-air when it's spaced right. You can jump in barrier to bait Mu's anti-airs, or use jD to CH or sometimes clash with them.

On offense, when you get a knockdown, your 4D should eat Mu's DP for free and catch her rolling or not teching, saving you the trouble of baiting it on wakeup. I guess the only downside to this is you commit to drive pressure early, but if you have 50 meter for RC you should be good to go into the "real" mixup. Other than that, during blockstrings you have to bait Mu's DP like any other shoryu, and try to use low profile moves like 2A/2B to go under Mu's Counter Assault.

On defense, you pretty much have to respect Mu's oki, but your CA is pretty good to get out of her pressure. If you have the right read/mad reactions, you can 4D through her overhead or throw attempts, just don't get blown up if they bait this with stagger pressure.

Hopefully my ramblings from the perspective of a Mu player can help a bit in this matchup. This has always seemed like a pretty even, if momentum-based matchup to me.

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Hey you're that Mu that was beating me up! Thanks for the input. I've always had trouble defeating Mu and I don't think it has anything to do with Noel specifically, just as a rush down. Also I tried 3C under the orb (yes 236A) and it still hits unless you let it float up in the air for a bit. A better punish that Noel can do is IAD>j.D if Noel doesn't have to block it. There are some weird ranges the orb can be done at that makes it act strange. If Mu does 2A>2A>5B>236A then the orb will still be close enough that Noel has to block it, but after the first to hits it pushes back too far for like the 3rd hit, then hits Noel 2 more times. If something like this is done then Noel has to IB the entire orb to get a punish. Otherwise if the orb is done close enough Noel can just 5C CH punish it without having to IB at all. I'm still working on finding more stuff but I think most of it will come from just playing Mu a lot.

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Good input there Zeromus, though the one problem I have with your assessment is at one point you implied that Noel's "real Pressure" was outside of drive. In reality, she doesn't really have mixup outside of drive, there are situational exceptions of course, but if you're pressuring your opponent in a normal blocking situation, drive pressure/mixup is her best bet, while still carrying the same risks it has always had.

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On offense, when you get a knockdown, your 4D should eat Mu's DP for free and catch her rolling or not teching, saving you the trouble of baiting it on wakeup.

A minor correction: Noel's 4d beats Mu's dp but not directly because both attacks clash with eachother but not as an attack but as a projectile (meaning Mu cannot reclash her dp and she can't even RC her dp as well). You won't score a hit with 4D but you can still whiff cancel any other drive attack and that will hit Mu while she is recovering from her dp. So punish Mu with the more damaging starter after that

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your best bet in that situation is the drive string of 4D > d.6C, or in a pressure situation d.4D > d.6C.

If both moves whiff, then the d6C will catch Mu standing, and allow a combo into Muzzle Filter.

If your 4D actually connects, and you aren't in the corner, d.6C will still connect, at that point you do 4D > d.6C > d.2D > d.5C > d.5B > 236A to continue the combo.

If your d.4D connects, it will counter hit, and combo into the d.6C, which again will combo into Muzzle Filter.

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Oh I don't mean to downplay Noel's drive pressure at all, cause it's super legit in this game, I just mean generally it's much more spooky when Noel RC's into something unexpected, as opposed to her drive chains which are easier to react to imo.

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Yeah some people have an easier time reacting to drive pressure than others, hell one of MI's mid level guys have an easier time blocking my drive than Axis does lol.

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