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LM_Akira

[Accent Core] Order-Sol Combo Thread

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The manly Lvl1 GB Follow-up:

Lvl1 GB, dashing 5HS [sJI] sjc sj.S, sj.K, sj.S jc sj.S, sj.HS xx Lvl# SV.

Works on everyone (Bridget and Robo Ky are the hardest to hit consistently, but still doable) and leads to more damage than the j.HS, j.D jc j.HS, j.D xx SV combo. 5HS is now epic for SJI.

... Is anyone else getting frustrated with his corner throw combos? ...

Not particularly. Having more character-specific combo opportunities is awesome, especially since his combos don't feel nearly as diverse as his launching options (Admit it, once you stop gawking over linking two Lvl3s together for less damage than a normal combo or combo'ing into a Lvl3/2 super after a Lvl3 launch to blow meter and still do less damage it all starts to feel less rewarding). The j.HS, j.D followup has always been tricky; guess I'm just used to it by now.

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On Potemkin: Lvl1 GB, dashing 5HS [sJI] sjc sj.S, sj.K, sj.S jc sj.S, sj.HS xx Lvl1 SV 150 l1GB,rj.H-D,dj.H-D,l1SV 147 Lvl1 GB, dashing 5HS [sJI] sjc sj.S, sj.K, sj.S jc sj.S, sj.HS xx Lvl2 SV 160 l1GB,rj.H-D,dj.H-D,l2SV 161 imo it's not worth the hassle. Not to mention that for consistency purposes you want to use j.P rather then j.K which reduces the damage of both versions(j.P will always hit, j.K will not always hit).

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WUT:

I wasn't saying I'm necessarily frustrated with the fact his options are character specific (I play VF after all, max damage there is all about weight, stance and distance specific combos) I'm talking about the fact his combos are character specific as well as timing specific. Or perhaps that should read his combos differ in timing dependendent on your opponent's char.

e.g. doing

Throw (wall stick) j.HS, j.D, dj.HS, j.D, Lv1 236K

as a base ultra basic combo on Potemkin is a piece of cake. Do it vs Johnny and it won't connect, you need a dash 5S© (just a 5S© if you're close) and then the timing in getting the dj.HS... bit is a right pain. Try this combo on May and the final j.D into BRP will whiff. Vs Testy you can get stuff in like

Throw (wall stick) j.HS, j.D, dj.HS, j.D dash 5S© HJC hj.S, j.HS, j.D

but nailing the dash 5S© is tough. You can even add to this combo but I find it too hard to catch with the 5S©. Adding in the right delay between j.HS, j.D (delay) dj.HS, j.D has lost me a few matches already.

I've never had a problem getting to grips with his corner throw/6P combos but I'm finding the new timings vs different chars a real issue.

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On Potemkin:

Lvl1 GB, dashing 5HS [sJI] sjc sj.S, sj.K, sj.S jc sj.S, sj.HS xx Lvl1 SV 150

l1GB,rj.H-D,dj.H-D,l1SV 147

Lvl1 GB, dashing 5HS [sJI] sjc sj.S, sj.K, sj.S jc sj.S, sj.HS xx Lvl2 SV 160

l1GB,rj.H-D,dj.H-D,l2SV 161

imo it's not worth the hassle. Not to mention that for consistency purposes you want to use j.P rather then j.K which reduces the damage of both versions(j.P will always hit, j.K will not always hit).

Consistency? On Potemkin? You can hit Potemkin with pretty much everything. Hell, you can start it with a 5S© [JI], 5HS into the same air combo I posted and do more damage on Potemkin than either combo listed. And you never need to use j.P instead of j.K; j.K always hits on him; he's just that big. In fact, I never bother to use j.P instead of j.K in that situation. J.K has a better hitbox than it did in Slash and works great in the GB followups; just learn to use it.

Point being, the j.HS, j.D combo doesn't work on everyone and leads to less damage, so why not just go with 5HS SJI and score more damage? 5HS SJI followup takes just as much effort as the j.HS, j.D followup, so "not worth the hassle" doesn't really apply. However, the only time I'd really want j.HS, j.D after Lvl1 GB is to score a Lvl2 BRP knockdown closer to the corner. If you're learning one combo that takes careful timing, may as well learn the one that nets you more bang for your buck and works (albeit with slight variations) on everyone.

LM_Akira: In all honesty, Johnny is the only one that is a little more difficult than usual (I.E. j.HS, j.D jc. j.HS, j.D doesn't hit); May and Testament both get hit by it easy enough without the 5S© and you can get the 5S© SJ relaunch on them as easy (read: hard) as you could in Slash (where it was still difficult after taking them to the corner). They're just like the rest of the cast in terms of variable delays. Johnny is where it gets silly:

Throw, dashing 5S© jc j.HS, j.D, land 5S© sjc j.S j.HS, j.D xx Lvl# BRP.

Easy enough, comparable in damage to everyone else as it does 135 damage to Johnny (throw combo with relaunch does 143 to Testament).

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I'm having doing the lv1 Gun Blaze into d.HS(JI)->SJC combo on Ky. How deep do I have to be for the HS? I can't even get the first S to connect :/ I can hit d.j.HS-D->JC, dj.HS-D->lv# BRP no problem though.

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WUT: Point being j.H-D, j.H-D does about the same damage for less risk compared to your ji combo which can go wrong at 6 different points. And if I'm near corner I wouldn't use l2BRP, I would relaunch with S(sji). If I'm not near corner I wouldn't use l2BRP either, cuz l2SV does more damage.

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WUT: Point being j.H-D, j.H-D does about the same damage for less risk compared to your ji combo which can go wrong at 6 different points.

There's no point in continuing the discussion when it's clear you're just being blindly stubborn. A combo is a combo; it can be problematic at first, then you learn it and everything is fine. Just dismissing an option because it's risky at first glance doesn't help your game any.

And if I'm near corner I wouldn't use l2BRP, I would relaunch with S(sji). If I'm not near corner I wouldn't use l2BRP either, cuz l2SV does more damage.

I'm not going to argue with you over taking more damage with a combo vs taking a knockdown and getting setup for potentially more damage next time; things like that are decided on the pace of the match and one option may be better than the other depending on the situation.

I'll just ask one question: Are you really having that much trouble getting damage now (in AC) that you absolutely have to max it at every turn? Almost all of HOS' launchers and followup combos lead to around 200 damage; you should never be struggling for damage in this game. Personally, my troubles come from my opponents zoning me, as HOS is still weak to zoners but has a few new tools (5S[f] and Fafnir) to ease the pain. Speaking of Fafnir...

Fun with Fafnir (and CH 6K) ((all tested on Sol)):

Midscreen or closer to corner:

CH 6K CC dashing Fafnir (412366+slightly delayed D), 5S©, 5HS sjc IAD j.P, j.S xx Lvl1 SV. 196 damage.

CH 6K CC dashing Fafnir, 5S© jc j.HS, j.D jc j.HS, j.D xx Lvl2 BRP. 226.

CH 6K CC dashing Fafnir, 5HS jc j.HS, j.D jc j.HS, j.D xx Lvl2 BRP. 239. (harder than 5S[c] and more corner-dependent).

CH 6K CC dashing Fafnir, 5S© jc j.HS, j.D jc j.HS, j.D xx Lvl3 BRP, 6HS. 248.

CH 6K CC dashing Fafnir, 5HS jc j.HS, j.D xx Lvl3 BRP land, slight dash 5S© 5HS sjc j.S, j.HS xx Lvl1/2 SV. 262 if Lvl1, 266 if Lvl3. (More corner dependent, but works from the starting positions in Training and closer).

CH 6K CC dashing Fafnir, 5S©, 5HS sjc IAD j.P, j.S xx Lvl3 SV xx AC land j.HS, j.D xx Lvl2 BRP. 231.

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It's a good thing people don't take me seriously, they feel really bad when I beat them. Oh and btw, those are combos, not setups... WUT: Your first and second argument were that your combo does better damage, and I've pointed out it didn't. Now all of a sudden you're telling fairy tales which pretty much state that you don't really care about the damage on a combo. That's contradiction in my opinion.

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WUT: Your first and second argument were that your combo does better damage, and I've pointed out it didn't.

Oh? And when did you point that out? When you showed that it did 3 more damage, or 1 less damage, on Potemkin? Lemmie let you in on something: Lvl1 GB/Lvl1 SV does 4+ more damage with the SJI than the j.HS, j.D on everyone else, and either breaks even or does more damage as Lvl1 GB/Lvl2 SV on everyone, aside from Potemkin. That looks like "better damage" to me, regardless of the "effort" required to get it. Does the game account for effort? Does that mean the j.HS, j.D etc. follow-up suddenly does 3 more damage? No, it doesn't. Quit complaining about the difficulty and learn to do it or don't and do less damage; dismissing it as risky and "not worth the hassle" doesn't change the numbers.

Now all of a sudden you're telling fairy tales which pretty much state that you don't really care about the damage on a combo. That's contradiction in my opinion.

Jeez, you're rather persistent with your assumptions considering everything that's been said. Guess you misread my intentions. My reasoning was that you should not always be in the mindset "gotta' max damage, gotta' combo into Lvl2 SV and do super jump combos in the corner".

If I didn't care about damage then I'd be throwing punches into my combos and ending in supers, neither of which works out well for you. Getting good damage for the resources you put into the combo (tension, charge lvl) is essential. And you can get even more damage with a knockdown and mixup; it's just riskier than the guaranteed damage from the combo you landed previously.

I'm done arguing over this. I've only kept it going in public so that anyone who bothers to read it can understand the options HOS has for combos and (potential) setup and will learn different combos for different situations in matches. We're just beating a dead horse now. If you've got anything else to say about the matter, then do it via PM.

Edit: I stand corrected. Lvl1 GB, j.HS, j.D jc j.HS, j.D xx Lvl2 SV does 1 more damage on the chars that take less damage than normal (HOS, Slayer, ABA, Potemkin). Everyone else is still even/less damage than the 5HS SJI combo with Lvl1 GB/Lvl2 SV ender.

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LM_Akira: On May, after guarding a 3K: CH 2D CC 5S©, 5HS sjc IAD j.P, j.S xx Lvl2 SV. 155 damage. CH 2D CC 5S©, 5HS sjc IAD j.P, j.S xx Lvl3 SV land, running j.HS, j.D, jc j.HS, j.D xx Lvl1 BRP. 184. CH Fafnir, running j.HS, j.D jc j.HS j.D land, 5S© sjc j.S, j.HS, j.D xx Lvl1 BRP. 245.* CH 2S, 6HS RC running 5S©, 5HS xx Lvl3 RI IAD j.D, land, 5S© sjc j.S, j.HS, j.D xx Lvl1 BRP. 257.** CH 2S, 6HS RC running 5S©, 5HS xx Lvl3 BRP land, running j.HS, j.D jc j.HS, j.D xx Lvl2 BRP. 260.*** CH 2S, 6HS RC running 5S©, 5HS xx Lvl3 BRP land, running j.HS, j.D jc j.HS, j.D, land 5S© sjc j.S, j.HS, j.D xx Lvl1 BRP. 267.**** *: Gives you the most damage for what you spend (only 25% tension). **: Easiest follow-up to 2S, 6HS RC and the most reasonable in a match setting concerning charge meter (Lvl3 > Lvl1). ***: Most resources spent (50% tension, requires an almost full Lvl3 charge meter), but nets you solid damage and a knockdown. ****: The other reasonable follow-up in a match setting after 2S, 6HS RC. This one is a little more distance-specific to the corner, but the payoff is nice.

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Cool, I will add them to the first post. Too busy with work and other things right now to properly get to grips with AC Order-Sol. :(

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I take back what I said earlier, you can combo level 3 BHB into Dragon Install. If you ac the bhb, start a short manual charge, end it and do s into Dragon Install it all hits in the corner. I experiment for a moment outside of the corner, but I gave up since it's fairly useless anyway. Just fun to watch.

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Question: When say you land a basic ground string, or well, anything that can combo into level 3 RI or BRP, which would be preferable? The combo opportunities off both are pretty similar, and from what I recall one seems to do slightly more damage. Are there perhaps some PHAT COMBOZ I don't know about or something off one that aren't off the other for whatever reason? Any help will be appreciated :D.

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question:is true that OR can't do damage over 200(without any 6hs(rc)) anymore?if anyone know how to do so it would be much appreciated.

If you work from prorated setups it will be very hard to go over 200, if you don't, nearly anything can help you over it. 6P-H,j.H-D, land, S939S-H-D,dj.H-D,l1/3BRP works against some characters and should reach the 200+ damage.

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question:is true that OR can't do damage over 200(without any 6hs(rc)) anymore?if anyone know how to do so it would be much appreciated.

your kidding right? This character does 200+ on like everything D:

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Seen as tho HOS's charge system and overall damage output have been improved/increased significantly in AC, I don't think you really need to worry too much about scoring 200+ combos in a match. One thing I found useful vs Po is: Lv1 214S dash 5HS HJC hj.S, j.HS, j.D, Lv1 623HS i.e. using dash 5HS instead of 5S©. This combo gives the best damage possible vs him (149) without using a JI (I don't really go for 5HS/5S© HJI combos as I'm too inconsistent with them)...so it's like the best damage "easy" Lv1 GB combo...in fact it's only 1 pt less from the HJI combo! It also works vs a lot of other chars tho after some experimentation in some cases it's better going for other options. Another one from a corner throw: Throw (wall stick) j.HS, j.D, dj.HS, j.D (land) j.K, j.S, dj.HS, j,D (Lv1 236K) I've seen kaqn use this a few times vs Sol. The BRP on the end is optional but only ends on about 3 pts. Vs Sol off the top of my head it does 142 I think, vs Millia with the BRP does 167. Not too bad from a non-JI/HJI corner throw. It also works vs I-No and probably others but I've not looked into it extensively. You need to delay the dj.HS... part just right in order to get your j.K in.

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For the throw combo, if you do a dashing j.K, the momentum allows you to hit a Storm Viper instead of a BRP at the end of the combo, which does a little more damage. Seriously, nobody should have any trouble doing large damage with HOS in AC.

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Cool, I didn't realise that. HOS's "realistic" combo options have really opened up now in AC.

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Finally got AC, haven't played it very much yet due to some technical problems with my Japanese PS2. :/ Quick question on a basic combo though. In Slash, if I got a non-CH Gunblaze on someone, I would do a dashing superjump and be able to catch them with j.S, j.H, j.D, SV. After trying it in AC, it doesn't seem like that works anymore, maybe due to how they changed his j.S? I can't pinpoint whats different about the combo now. But I was wondering if this would still work if you toss out a 5H before superjumping to catch them on the tip of your sword, it seems like it comes out faster now.

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It's sort of a combination of the change in properties for j.s and GB. J.s does not hit under OS like it did in /, and GB floats lower. The untech time and low float allow OS to simply run up and do close 5s>sj>j.s>j.hs>j.d>SV. This has already been posted earlier I think. 5hs is not recommended since the push back is too great, not allowing you to complete the combo in most cases. Even in the corner, you'll usually only get one hit off the sv usually.

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