[CP] Azrael vs. Bang Match-up Discussion

[zeth07]

Discussion about the Bang match-up goes here.

Anyone is free to post info as long as it is constructive and helps with the discussion of the match-up.

• Bang is a very momentum based character. If he gets in on you he's going to try and stay on top of you and try to mix you up until you die.
  
• Bang doesn't really have "strong" oki tools to "force" you to block, unless he commits to using Steel Rain.
  
• Bang does have strong mix-up options with multiple lows, highs, and a command grab if he does get you into a blocking situation.
  
• Bang does not however get much off of regular crouching combos mid-screen or off his command grab.
  
• Because Bang is a more offensive orientated character the match-up comes down to who can get the upper hand by forcing the opponent to block and getting a knock down. There would be less chasing Bang down compared to other characters since he needs to get in himself, so it is really a clash of who can win offensively at neutral.
  
• All of Bang's Drives are punishable or will give the opponent (you) the advantage on block. 2D can be jump canceled or special canceled but none of those things can really harm you in most cases.
  
• Bang's B-Nail know ricochets differently depending on where it hits, while D-Nails now allow him to retain momentum which means he can come in behind them easier but are no longer used in his pressure.
  
• Bang has no reliable meterless anti-air, at best he will try to Air to Air you with j.A or hope to land 2D. With meter he does have "Ashura" (236236A) so pay attention to his meter, although it doesn't do much damage it can change the momentum of the match which is what Bang needs.
  
• Bang has a new distortion that is a command grab which works on grounded or opponents in the air. He does however need all 4 seals for it to work. If you are on the ground and not doing anything you should be able to just jump. If you are in the air he will catch you unless you have an attack that hits behind you already out (j.B). The move becomes scary if he uses it during Overdrive.
  
• Furinkazan is now Bang's Overdrive. You can expect much of the same stuff from it if you've played previous games, however each seal Bang has provides different "buffs" while he's in FRKZ. Try to not get knocked down or even put in blockstun if he is in FRKZ as it is very hard to block FRKZ mix-up and it leads to big damage.
  
• Bang's 3C is a Fatal Counter, and he can get a ridiculous loop combo off it, consider bursting this if you get hit by it but not immediately.
  
• Bang's Astral is UNBLOCKABLE and has full body guard point, Azrael can more than likely just back dash it on reaction. I expect that Azrael can not crouch a properly TK'd Bang Astral.
  
• While Azrael could in theory absorb Bang's Nails with Growler Field (214B), because of the way they work it isn't likely to happen unless you just happened to do the move the same time he threw them out. The one exception being Steel Rain which takes forever to start-up and should be able to absorb easily.
  

From jbbs:

元バングで今アズ使いの俺で良ければ少し対策を書きますね。

　

立ち回り

釘、２回空ダ等で非常に先手を取りづらい組み合わせであること知っておく。

慣性、逃げA釘（毒）が厄介だが制限＆致命打にはあまりならないので絶対に焦らない。

安易な低ダは危険。前ステ、前ステJC低ダ、前ステグスタフを使い分けてパターンを読まれないようにする。

対アズでは使用頻度の低い傘、BCD釘は全てグロウラーで吸う。B釘（鋭角爆破）は遠距離or起き攻め位でしか使わないしそこまで驚異ではない。

慣性A釘の存在でこちらの対空があまり機能しない為C釘（蜘蛛の巣）は5A、5B、5Cの後位この時はグロウラー。

低ダからC釘が来た場合はグロウラーか見た瞬間前ステ5B〜かガード後に反撃。

D釘は前作の様に最低空でいきなり出すことが困難な為ガト→低空ムササビ→D釘位なので是非とも吸収したい。

アズの技空振り時やRCセットで使ってくる3Cはバッタ等で回避しそこから反撃。ガードしてもRCされたら大人しくする。

バング側の3CはFCすると非常に危険なので安易なグロウラーは絶対ダメ。釘を読んだつもりが3Cでしたでは笑えない。

慣性A釘はとにかく付き合わない事。その意味ではバッタが非常に大切だが飛んでばかりいると相手の低ダJBJCやB釘爆破に引っかかるのでここも注意。

バッタ、二段ジャンプ、前ステ、前ステJ低ダ、前ステグスタフ全てを混ぜて相手に的を絞らせないように心がける。

慣性A＞2Aの場合タイミングが合えばA釘通常喰らい後投げを入れておけば位置、距離によっては2Aを投げで潰せる時がある（あくまでも博打）

立ち回り時でのヴァリは無意味。死ぬだけ。使うとしたら相手の緊急受身後の6D、2D、阿修羅用に。

被起き攻め＆固め時（画面端）

固められるのはやはり慣性A釘の存在が大きい。状況によっては低ダJBJCからかな？

バング戦の被固め時の肝は「5Cを捌けるか」だと思っている。画面端の場合バクステはほぼ無意味。

慣性A釘から来る崩しはガト〜5Corコマ投げの２点。固め中はこちらが暴れても勝てないと思って良いのでとにかくガード。

基本しゃがみガードしてとにかく5Cを待つ。CAも封印。ガト〜5Cガード後のバングの行動は5C＞2C＞双（RC〜）が殆ど。

5C2C直ガ最速スカッドで双に割り込める　ざまぁww　ガード後の双の後に相手がRC出来るかだけは必ず見て置く事。そこで攻撃食らっては意味がない。

5C＞6Bあるけどこれはガトからの派生からだと距離が離れるので見切るのはまだ簡単。

緊急受身後も同様。基本しゃがんで様子見でバクステ＆暴れ厳禁。密着5Cが来る可能性が高いのでなんとしてもガード。

先にも書いた5C＞6B（RC低ダJB〜）が機能する距離なので5C後は6Bなのか2Cなのかを良く確認。

固め＆受身後のバング落としは相手のゲージが50％なければ5Cを見切るための経費と割り切るのも手。

アズの体力は高いしバングの攻めが途切れる。当然5Cをガードし続けるとコマ投げに頼ってくる。

この時は5A＞２A＞2A＞微ダコマ投げと言った一瞬走る動作が見えるので前ジャンプで位置入れ替えで反撃したい。

一応緊急受身後の生コマ投げの対策としてグロウラーも視野に・・・あまり使いたくはないがww

緊急受身後にバリガ貼ってジャンプしたくなるけどそれもオススメできない。5Cで引き戻される上に2A＞2Aに引っかかる。

固め中（5A＞2A＞2A）はバリガを使って5Cを見切りやすくする事もあり。5Cは発生が若干遅い中段ではあるけど前方向にかなり判定があるので見た瞬間すぐに立つ事が重要。

アズの攻撃判定は非常に優秀ですがこれは技がかち合ったときの話なので速さと手数が多いバングには固められたら大人しくガードする事が肝要かと。

過去に自分が使っていた戦法を参考に書いてみました。

間違った所もあるかもしれませんが参考になれば幸いです。

Need a proper translation.

Notable Matches:

Tahichi (AZ) vs. Ikegami? (BA)

Minami (BA) vs. Tochigin (AZ)

Tochigin (AZ) vs. Peach (BA)

Tan (BA) vs. Tahichi (AZ) *3

Dogura (AZ) vs. Den (BA)

[helix]

Yeah, so i'm redirecting my post from the general discussion here:

There's zero Bang discussion in the match-up threads, so i want to ask a few questions about the match-up

I know that all of bang's drive moves are punishable except for J.D, but for some reason i'm really struggling to punish it, what should i use for a punish?

Whenever i try to jump in on him, and this might sound REALLY weird, but i get anti-aired, he uses 2D and it anti-airs me, so i'm having trouble getting in on him.

I struggle a lot when getting in, Bang is good at keeping the lifelead and make me come to him, especially when he uses a poison nail (which makes me panic for some reason) and i don't know how to approach him because i know he wants me to come to him, but i can't zone him obviously.

What should i do at the start of the round? i'm really struggling at the start of the round because jump back nails beats all my options (i try back dashing but it doesn't really benefit me).

Also, for some reason after hitting the opponent with 5A, 5B, 2C into 6D the opponent is too far away for a 5B and i always mess up TCL in that situation, so what should i be doing in that situation?

Any help would be appreciated.

[Verimeloni]

I know that all of bang's drive moves are punishable except for J.D, but for some reason i'm really struggling to punish it, what should i use for a punish?

First, I haven't looked at Bang's frame data so all the things I say are things I've noticed from fighting Bang online/watching videos at Nico. Second, Instant Block. If you see him do 5D/6D/2D during a string either backdash or IB it, with normal block it's not recommended to mash 'cause he can sweep you and you're pushed to corner. If you block his 623B then it's safer to start your offense. If he likes to randomly use his D moves try experimenting with Valiant and Hornet that are they fast enough to punish with.

Whenever i try to jump in on him, and this might sound REALLY weird, but i get anti-aired, he uses 2D and it anti-airs me, so i'm having trouble getting in on him.

If he's on the ground, use j.2C to throw off his AA timing but don't abuse it. Only IAD after knockdowns or if he's in the air also.

I struggle a lot when getting in, Bang is good at keeping the lifelead and make me come to him, especially when he uses a poison nail (which makes me panic for some reason) and i don't know how to approach him because i know he wants me to come to him, but i can't zone him obviously.

Like with Rachel and Nu blind-dashing will get you killed. You have to slowly push him to the corner until he either has to try to switch the side of the screen or attack. With nails you can either Growler them or backdash, they're not too fast to react to (if he does j.236D just Growler, if you backdash the nails will still hit you). Use moves like Gustaf and 6C to get closer, if he does his 3C a lot on neutral start using 6C more, it jumps over his kick and can get you a crouching FC combo if timed correctly.

What should i do at the start of the round? i'm really struggling at the start of the round because jump back nails beats all my options (i try back dashing but it doesn't really benefit me).

Try Gustaf or sj. (double jump) 2D/2C.

Also, for some reason after hitting the opponent with 5A, 5B, 2C into 6D the opponent is too far away for a 5B and i always mess up TCL in that situation, so what should i be doing in that situation?

Take it to the training mode and try > 2B > TCL or > 5C > TCL, 5C has to be timed just correctly but deals more damage.

Don't take any of these by heart but keep them in mind the next time you're fighting against Bang. Also watch your replays and analyze what was good and what was bad.

If someone has more info on this MU please comment/correct.

[LegendaryRath]

Against Bang players with good neutral you'll have to be patient. If bang starts offense by gliding behind poison nails, you can not anti-air him. The nail will hit you and he gets a free combo. Bang doesn't have a real anti-air, so for the most part you don't need to worry about jumping on him. He might try to use the upperbody guardpoint on his 2D but the move is so slow that he has to throw it out way in advance or you will be able to land and block it.

Once you get in, Bang has a really tough time. All of his escape options are risky. He might use 5D or 2D mid/upper-body guardpoint to try to beat overheads or punish pressure. By occasionally using 3D, you can CH him and get a huge combo for it too. Bang's 6D has guard-point on the first frame and beats lows, but will get CH by highs. Just be sure to mix up your drive pressure a bit and confirm your counterhits!

[Synyster17]

does anyone know if there are any gaps in this strings or what. i can seem to get out of his pressue.

[Zyed]

Bang will Bang you if you try to push buttons while he throws the 3 shuriken specials on you.

 

3D and crush his balls through the armor and 5D alot less during pressure cause that armor is pretty gay to your overheads. 4.5k damage combos are close to game winners. 

 

Bangs fucking rule the air sometimes you just gotta IAD 5B and time it right so you can swat him like a fly. 

 

Oh and to the Bangs that wanna wake up and hit the armor button right away. Get grabbed sons.

 

Bang's got no damage combos but he sure can keep you in one combo after another mode, you gotta block those mix ups. its really hard to find the gaps he makes but I usually block til a Bang uses that Bang style punch that does the wall stick to you and im free after that. But sometimes when you get hit he'll just start jumping all over you with these ambiguous kick cross ups. Really hard to block reminds me of Wesker S cross ups. 

 

As alot of characters have access to them, Bang got those 50 distortion reversals too soooooo yeah it'd be a good idea to watch for those.