[CP] Azrael vs. Relius Match-up Discussion

[zeth07]

Discussion about the Relius match-up goes here.

First post may be edited as important information arises. If any information seems wrong please feel free to correct it, hopefully with actual proof / examples. Anyone is free to post info as long as it is constructive and helps with the discussion of the match-up.

• Will post info later.
  

Notable Matches:

[09/22/13] Tahichi vs. Relius = http://youtu.be/-M3YGAF38UE?t=1h4m3s

[09/22/13] Tahichi vs. Relius*3 = http://youtu.be/-M3YGAF38UE?t=40m38s

[09/22/13] Tahichi vs. Relius*2 = http://youtu.be/-M3YGAF38UE?t=27m54s

[09/22/13] Tahichi vs. Relius = http://youtu.be/-M3YGAF38UE?t=16m13s

[09/21/13] Tahichi vs. Relius = http://youtu.be/HF9yHq0767s?t=1h35m56s

[09/14/13] Tahichi vs. Relius = http://youtu.be/n4dln6fNi50

[09/14/13] Tahichi vs. Relius*2 = http://youtu.be/FJhpB6FBH8g?t=3m31s

[09/09/13] Relius vs. Dogura = http://youtu.be/edMHaGJBG-A?t=27m27s

[Slayer]

I've found this matchup to be quite tedious for Azrael. From my little experience when facing any Relius player, he plays at a distance until he gets pressure, then closes in, mixes me up using both his Ignis normals and his own. I'm not too great a player really, but it seems like Relius has the upper hand when it comes to getting in. However, in the event Azrael lands a hit and begins his pressure, albeit short pressure, Azrael has the upper hand at close range. At this point Relius players may begin to rely on 236A, which loses to throws, meaning if read then it can be punished for good damage (5.4K at most with 50% tension and double weakpoints). I'm not too much of a great player right now, so I can imagine most people might be thinking a bit differently. This is all entirely my opinion. Though I did find some stuff that may be slightly useful.

 

-- Azrael 5C at max range can either beat or trade with Ignis wheel.

 

-- Relius meter reversal can lose to Growler. Gives Azrael stock and plenty time to punish with a big CH combo.

 

-- Azrael 5C can also beat Relius' 214C easily.

 

-- Azrael can Growler Relius' 22A/B/C, any of them.

 

-- When on the ground, Azrael 2C can beat Relius' jA if timed properly, jB, and jC. 6B can also beat jA easier than 2C can, it can also beat jC. 6B has a chance to clash with jB, so I found it much simpler to stick with 2C.

 

-- Azrael 2C can somehow not hit Ignis j2D, but at the same time Azrael does not get hit either. I'm not sure if this is really too reliable. In this situation, 6B seems to have better reward.

 

-- Azrael will most likely lose in any air-to-air situation. Use Gustafs and other stuff to get in, but don't be too reliant on it or Relius can and will punish it. Bait out Ignis normals and wait for him to decide he needs to recharge the meter, then find a safe way to approach him. Even without Ignis, he can hit you out of the air with 6B for a free combo.

 

--Relius players seem to love the air (though remember I have not faced many of them). 2C quickly fixes them.

 

I should also note I'm still a beginner myself, so some of this stuff may seem really silly. I apologize for that.

 

When it comes to this matchup, you need to stay in Relius' face since Azrael can't do much at a distance aside from BHS and gustaf, and the last thing we want is a baited BHS. Relius does not have very many defensive options, so he loses if Azrael touches him. Most Relius players will use their meter reversal or in rare cases 236A to get out of pressure, you can punish his super on block, and 236A is not throw invulnerable as I've said before. What Azrael can do at a distance is bait out Ignis normals and get Relius to start being cautious, therefore making him defensive, the last thing he wants against Azrael. Some Relius may resort to mashing, so be careful on that.

[Warhound]

I've found this matchup to be quite tedious for Azrael. From my little experience when facing any Relius player, he plays at a distance until he gets pressure, then closes in, mixes me up using both his Ignis normals and his own. I'm not too great a player really, but it seems like Relius has the upper hand when it comes to getting in. However, in the event Azrael lands a hit and begins his pressure, albeit short pressure, Azrael has the upper hand at close range. At this point Relius players may begin to rely on 236A, which loses to throws, meaning if read then it can be punished for good damage (5.4K at most with 50% tension and double weakpoints). I'm not too much of a great player right now, so I can imagine most people might be thinking a bit differently. This is all entirely my opinion. Though I did find some stuff that may be slightly useful.

 

-- Azrael 5C at max range can either beat or trade with Ignis wheel.

 

For real? Does it just stop Ignis? My memory is fuzzy, how fast is this move? Can you react to it?

 

-- Relius meter reversal can lose to Growler. Gives Azrael stock and plenty time to punish with a big CH combo.

 

Oooh nice

 

-- Azrael 5C can also beat Relius' 214C easily.

 

Wait, really? I thought that move just tanked all physical attacks thrown at her. I've just been waiting for the Relius to charge in, and then fool him with a j.2C to shut both of them down.

 

-- Azrael can Growler Relius' 22A/B/C, any of them.

 

I didn't think about doing this, would probably help his neutral game if he had a stock though. It's just gonna have to be a Yomi obviously, no way to react to that shit.

 

-- When on the ground, Azrael 2C can beat Relius' jA if timed properly, jB, and jC. 6B can also beat jA easier than 2C can, it can also beat jC. 6B has a chance to clash with jB, so I found it much simpler to stick with 2C.

 

-- Azrael 2C can somehow not hit Ignis j2D, but at the same time Azrael does not get hit either. I'm not sure if this is really too reliable. In this situation, 6B seems to have better reward.

 

-- Azrael will most likely lose in any air-to-air situation. Use Gustafs and other stuff to get in, but don't be too reliant on it or Relius can and will punish it. Bait out Ignis normals and wait for him to decide he needs to recharge the meter, then find a safe way to approach him. Even without Ignis, he can hit you out of the air with 6B for a free combo.

 

--Relius players seem to love the air (though remember I have not faced many of them). 2C quickly fixes them.

 

Yeah, I think a lot of their air normals are pretty damn good, I see most of them just running away and staying in the air if they can.

 

I should also note I'm still a beginner myself, so some of this stuff may seem really silly. I apologize for that.

 

When it comes to this matchup, you need to stay in Relius' face since Azrael can't do much at a distance aside from BHS and gustaf, and the last thing we want is a baited BHS. Relius does not have very many defensive options, so he loses if Azrael touches him. Most Relius players will use their meter reversal or in rare cases 236A to get out of pressure, you can punish his super on block, and 236A is not throw invulnerable as I've said before. What Azrael can do at a distance is bait out Ignis normals and get Relius to start being cautious, therefore making him defensive, the last thing he wants against Azrael. Some Relius may resort to mashing, so be careful on that.

 

The biggest issue with this match-up, is the problem that even Hakumen has to face. No one benefits from nothing happen more than Relius. And I find it REALLY hard to pin him down at times, because when Ignis is down, all bets are off, he doesn't bother to fight you for anything. It's a tedious, annoying ass match-up. Still not as bad as Mu-12 but, few things are.

[Myoro]

Az's 2C is a projectile so it will never affect Ignis. Never use 2C to anti air a good Relius because they will always bait it with j.5D, j.2D, or j.8D. We have no good answer for j.B crossups and j.2C at certain angles because all of our anti airs suck. (unless Ignis is out for the j.2C one. In that case 4D will wrek him)

 

5C will beat 214A and 214C. 5B will beat 214B.

 

A savvy Relius can handle an Azrael backdash easily by using 6D on reaction when their moves whiff so be very careful about that because we can get 3000+ damage anywhere from that catch.

 

236D can also be growlered for Azrael balls. Azrael's 236B will NOT go though Ignis.

[Myoro]

The biggest issue with this match-up, is the problem that even Hakumen has to face. No one benefits from nothing happen more than Relius. And I find it REALLY hard to pin him down at times, because when Ignis is down, all bets are off, he doesn't bother to fight you for anything. It's a tedious, annoying ass match-up. Still not as bad as Mu-12 but, few things are.

 

Runaway is actually the worst thing Relius can do in that situation. =/

 

When Ignis dies the order of best to worst things you can do are: Solo combos>solo pressure>Runaway>get hit.

 

Relius is quite poor on the defensive, especially running away, so if he gives up pressure that's an invitation to destruction, one good guess for the Azrael and it's all over.

 

I understand Az has limited movement, but if you push that to the limit you'll have no trouble catching up and pressuring him.

[Slayer]

Thank you Myoro, I should have thought of that. 2C will lose when Ignis is out, yeah. I've had some Relius players IAD toward me and use jA, that's why I had to note ways of dealing with it. Caution should be taken when Ignis is summoned.

 

Though Growler can beat 22X and Relius' meter reversal, phalanx is useless when Ignis is out, so save it until she goes away. I think it best to Growler sparingly as it is, blocking seems to be the safer option if you're not close to Relius. This is why I tend to make it a point of getting in Relius' face and staying there.

 

As for 5C beating Ignis wheel, it works quite good at a distance. If timed, Ignis flies out and touches the tip of Azrael's toe, takes damage, then poofs. If not timed properly, it will trade, but Ignis will still disappear. If Relius does Ignis wheel closer than max range, 5A will tap Ignis hurtbox before she reaches you.

 

Being careful when Ignis is out is a given, but feel free to charge when she's gone. Though in the few matches I've had against Relius, his 6B can stop you if you try to IAD toward him. I should probably play more matches against Relius players for better ideas.

[Slayer]

I've found some extra interesting stuff;

 

-- 5C may beat/trade Ignis wheel, but I've found out 6A works much better. Even if Ignis touches Azrael, he takes nothing, and still hits Ignis.

 

-- 6A also works against Relius 214C and his 236C if you find a Relius that uses 236C a lot.

 

-- Azrael can backdash out of Ignis 214B even when he's cornered, then hit her to make her poof. But like Myoro said, be careful with your backdashes, Relius can punish them, OR put you in a blockstring.

 

Sorry about that guys, I still need to practice a lot to find more useful stuff.

[Myoro]

Problem with using 6A against Relius is that Relius is still free to do whatever he wants to Azrael after he hits Ignis, and all Azrael can do is Rapid. 5C lets you use Gustav 6C or growler after you hit Ignis, so it's generally safer to hit Ignis with this.

 

(If you use 6A as your only solution against Ignis and you don't Rapid, I can almost guarantee you're going to get counter hit by 22C or 3C. 3C counterhit combos hurt, they give Relius full ignis gauge and good damage and screen carry. A Relius won't think twice about sending Ignis in to get hit if they can get one of these out of the deal.)

 

No smart Relius will use 236C outside of a combo, unless it's as a punish.

 

If you need Relius EXP I'd be more than happy to provide.

[Slayer]

Ah, that's an excellent point. I'll be sure to post anything I find for this matchup in the future. Thanks for helping me out Myoro.

 

Very soon, I might take you up on that offer for a match. I am a bit occupied as of right now though.

[Warhound]

I'd get in on that, but it'll probably have to wait until the weekend.