AC Jam Strategy/Play Style Discussion

[FlashMetroid]

its a link......you do it at the end of the animation lol

[Bluewindz]

Post 102 Go....

I want to talk about playing conditions today. Physiologically of a player is important.

7 things

On average, a human being can memorize in their short term memory, 7 things before they start to lose track. In Guilty Gear terms, that can be like seven attacks. So when your opponents start to counterattack you move after move or air throw you constantly and you are like WTF?? You might be too predictable. Human beings can pseudo go beyond that limitation of 7 things by grouping memories together. So for an example, in GG terms, instead of memorizing an attack pattern out to 7 moves like attack: A, B, C, D, A, A, B. They can store in their short term memory 7 chunks of data. So in GG terms:

Attack Pattern 1: A, A, B, B, C, C, D, D, E

Attack Pattern ....

Attack Pattern 7: A, B, C, D, A, D, E, A, A

Although not every player is equal, on average, 7 is the limit. So what is needed in a match to increase the success rate of effectively mixing a player up is the usage of more than 7 attack patterns. That is where knowing Jam's gatlings is important. I will go over some things which I am sure many people already know, but just in case.

Lets begin with some openers:

1. IAD 214K

2. IAD j.p

3. IAD j.HS

4. IAD 236P - used before an opponent or as a quick landing tool when you get behind an opponent.

5. Dash into 6P

6. Dash into 5K

7. Dash into 6HS

8. Dash into Throw

9. 2D

So that's 9 right there. Use them in a match. Most people only use 4 or 5. Why? Because based on experience, people tend to use moves that they have had success with and not use moves that got them punished. So for example, when people first started playing Jam, there's move A and move B. They would use A 50% of the time and move B 50% of the time. Over time, move A would connect more/do more damage, whatever. So they use move A 75% and B 25%. Over time, the ratio might look like A 95% and B 5%. That is an example of players being predictable. So the idea is to overload your opponents short term memory. Real life example, there is a few players in my area that uses around 4 or 5 attack patterns. Since I seem it and the such, and it's below 7, I block it all because I memorized it. Then they do not understand why they lost. I tell them, then they say it is a habit. To break a habit, place limiters like you cannot use certain moves during matches to get over it quick.

I know for sure, Jam has a lot of variety. That variety might be maxed at 7 or 8, but it's better than using 4 or 5 patterns.

Muscle Memory

Muscles can remember motions/movement and can react before the brain does. So when you charge in and attack, your opponent might not be able to react fast enough, but their muscles might. The may counter you instantly and you may go WTF?!?! (well I don't lol!) This is because based on their experience, the muscles records a specific reaction to your attack, the timing and the movement needed to counter your attack. If you continually charge in at the same pace, you will be countered by ..not the opponent, but by the opponent's muscle memory. To avoid this pitfall, vary your rhythm or pace of attack. This is the same idea as when players are put on the defensive, they double jump to throw off your rhythm and get you to either miss your attack or to create an opportunity for them to attack you. So you may want to feint an attack, or do a double jump yourself before rushing in from the air. Randomize your pace of attack. A creative way to sync your movements is to play a sporadic song in your head and attack ever 4th beat or whatever. The downfall to muscle memory is that when your muscles remembers a certain action to counter your attack, it is often very hard to not do that reaction again and falls prey to feinting. An example is when you are charging in from the ground. The opponent usually expects you to charge right in, but you suddenly instant stop and do something else.

Fighting Theory

Perfect Play

Like in real life, in theory, the first one to attack usually has the disadvantage because you open yourself up for a counter attack. In GG terms, best possible action is to not move. If your opponent attacks you, you can Slash Back or Instant Block and counter. With Jam, you can parry. In fact, Jam should be happy that the opponent is attack her in theory fighting. If an opponent moves forward, you have the advantage of striking/throwing first because your opponent is moving forward. If your opponent moves back, you can move forward capturing more territory and eventually forcing your opponent in the corner.

In reality, Jam is much faster than most characters. So instant blocking is pretty crucial for Jam to open up her opponent. I strongly believe that Jam is the last character you learn in GG after you learned all the other characters because she has a move called "parry". I would imagine you would pick her just to parry everything and laugh.

Common Mistakes

1. Dropping a combo

2. Misjudging the height/weight of your opponent, thus only getting two loops on your wall combo

3. Not maximizing your damage opportunity by either going for an easier combo or not using the best possible move in a situation.

4. Charging in recklessly

5. No variety, No mix up, No throws

6. Using tension for offense and not defense

7. Not willing to use 50 or 75% tension bar to create an opportunity to win, ie RC and DA

ie. your opponent is in the corner, you hit them with 5K, 5S, 5HS, 6HS, HS. Would you charge? Prepare for oki? Or would you... RC out of HS follow up to wall combo them for the finish. Don't die with your opponent at less than 5 points of health.

8. Not charging

9. Over use of one move/attack pattern

10. Not using your tension bar when you are 75% or full. Don't die with full tension bar.

11. Thinking offense is the best defense always in every situation.

12. Trading damage.

13. Not knowing what moves can be punished

14. Bad Burst

15. Random charge in the middle of a crucial moment

Stupid Stuff

IAD 236K - great way to surprise someone who thinks they know where you are going, if they wall bounce, you can FB puffball them into a huge wall combo.

[Subzan]

I'm just a noob who's experimenting with my own combos and I'd like to know good ways to end this one: 6P, S, H, 6H>H, RC, FB puffball. Normally I'll just do a 2H into an overdrive or a dragon kick or whatever. I'm basically asking for good wall combos. Btw, awesome thread bluewindz.

[FlashMetroid]

snip

not to shabby

You forgot the most important openers to a match

1.TK 214K

2.Backdash

3.IAD 214K

Also the most common mistake is impatience

[Luigi-Bo 87]

People actually use iad dragon kic? I use it against Pots sometimes, but thats it.

[Bluewindz]

You forgot the most important openers to a match

LOL, what I meant to say was combo starters or pokers or whatever you call it. Moves to initiate an attack.

I'm just a noob who's experimenting with my own combos and I'd like to know good ways to end this one:

6P, S, H, 6H>H, RC, FB puffball. Normally I'll just do a 2H into an overdrive or a dragon kick or whatever.

I'm basically asking for good wall combos. Btw, awesome thread bluewindz.

I'm glad you are enjoying the material in this thread. Although I do not have as much time as I would like to really dive into some of the material, here is and there is fine I guess. As for a really good way to end 6P, S, H, 6H>H. I would say after your 5HS, where she hits 3 times, you can actually FB puffball after that into a wall combo instead of wasting a RC. You have to practice a little bit to get the timing down and if done right, counts towards your beats/combo. Then just refer to FlashMetroid's post in the other thread for wall combos. Adjust accordingly to height/weight, and number of beats that your opponent has already taken. Max damage wall combos always start with 2HS (1hit). Sometimes 6HS, HS if you hit them with a charged Ryujinn.

[Bluewindz]

By now, GGAC is getting to be an old game. Over the months, people have found counters for characters and developed ways to take down top tier characters. The tier rankings have changed a little bit over time. One tier ranking change that surprised me was Slayer dropping in tier. Nevertheless, Jam remains near the top. Over time, you realize that Jam has many play styles, but really only has one correct play style for each opponent. This is because your opponent really only has one play style when they are facing Jam. Depending on character: 1. Play keep away/hit and run. 2. Try to get first hit and hopes Jam blocks all the way. . 3. Take advantage of Jam's short range. As long as Jam plays at her own pace/rhythm, Jam can find openings. Eddie - aka Mr. Top Tier Eddie usually backs away from the start or tries to hit you first. Try to stay on the ground as much as possible until you have 1/4 tension, for air FD. The magic distance where you want maintain at all times is just in front of his short drill distance. From there, you can TK ryujinn if you see a drill. Eddie should not be attacking you in the air because you have more options for him when you are on the ground. Jumping slash or 623K. Eddie players try to hit you before summoning his pet if all possible. If you are ever blocking, just FD block to get out of his block string. Should Eddie ever summon his pet before he hits you and you are within that magic distance, you can punish him. Killing the pet is always an option. A quick move cancel chain is just 6P, 2S, 2D. So whether you hit Eddie or the pet first does not matter. Eddie wins by getting you to block. As long as you do not get caught him one of his block strings, you have a higher chance of winning. Eddie builds up your guard bar and does his high low mix up and fuzzy block scenarios. As long as you maintain your distance, not too far but not too close, you would pose a creditable amount of threat while maintaining your safety. If this match goes well, you should catch Eddie off guard and keep him from summoning while putting him in a corner. Potemkin - aka Fat hit box Pot users usually think Jam is an easy win because Jam is a close range fighter and they can Pot Buster Jam. For this match up, Pot only really has 3 options to get Jam. 1. Attack from the air - worse option for Pot 2. Slide Head - very annoying 3. Hammerfall - hope this is what Pot chooses 1. If Pot attacks from the air, you basically try to air dash under him and spam jumping slash. What you are hoping, is Pot does is his butt attack where you will answer with two jumping slashes. The first will clash and the second will hit him and you can continue with an air combo. 2. When Pot uses Slide Head, he is pretty much committed to the move, you can back dash it or be in the air and counter. Pot will only use this move, besides you being knocked down, is when you are just short of air dash range. If you are within air dash range, you hit him with IAD 214K for a free combo. 3. Why I say this is what you hope Pot chooses is because almost every ground fast normal can be chained into something equally fast. ei: Pot Hammerfalls, you 6P, 2S, 2D. When Pot plays defensive, he wants you to attack so he can Hammerfall you. Expect it. I recommend charging cards to increase your threat. Pot will try to Slide Head you when you land from the air, keep that in mind and use additional moves to stay in the air longer. When Pot is blocking, watch if one knee is down or if two knees are down, one means he is blocking high and two means he is blocking low. If Pot knocks you down, you have 75% tension, and you see him doing Slide Head, wake up dragon punch FRC into big combo. Besides blocking on wake up, back dashing or parry. This is one match where I might run the clock out because Pot's potential to Pot Buster after instant block. Puffballs are not really safe. I suggest counter-hit hunting and abusing Pot's big hit box. His moves really expand his already big hit box. Testament Testament really has one option from the start of the round. He should not try to attack right from the start of the round, but if he does, if Jam counters his initial attack, Jam has a high change of winning. Testament attacking before laying down traps is taking a gambit. In a normal match, Testament distances himself and lays traps. You must never jump so high as to lose sight of Testament. This match, you are watching for webs, and trees. Him setting webs are obvious, remember, if he sets his 3rd web up, his first web disappears. For trees, you will see his coat lift up subtly like a wind blowing up from underneath him. If you hit Testament, his trees will disappear. So basically disarm his traps. If you are ever caught in his block string, exe beast and him attacking you on both sides, you really have to instant block the exe beast so you can hit him or just instant block his attacks. Other than that, just FBPB though if you see an opening. Careful of warrant, if he is cornered, you may want to try for a throw once he has no traps out. If you are caught by his warrant, try to parry it. If the match goes right for Jam, you will see a progression towards a corner with Jam slowly disarming Testament's traps and zoning him to keep him in a corner. Sol, Order Sol, Ky These guys have a certain pattern that, with time, you will start to see. Then they are pretty easy. Be patient, watch for the openings and punish. Some openings are 1-2 frames, your eyes may not be able to see it in time, but with time, your fingers will react. Practice parrying their big moves. Dizzy Dizzy also has pattern that you will see over time. Summon summon summon... Keep in mind that Dizzy has a summon cycle, or she can only summon so many things at a time. She will eventually run out of things to summon for a short time period. Usually when that happens, Dizzy IAD towards you. During that time is one of the openings (easiest one to describe). Another opening is when Dizzy summons her fish, usually it attacks twice, if you can get past the first attack and not have to worry about the second attack, you may mess up Dizzy's pattern.

[excelence]

Dizzy

Dizzy also has pattern that you will see over time. Summon summon summon... Keep in mind that Dizzy has a summon cycle, or she can only summon so many things at a time. She will eventually run out of things to summon for a short time period. Usually when that happens, Dizzy IAD towards you. During that time is one of the openings (easiest one to describe). Another opening is when Dizzy summons her fish, usually it attacks twice, if you can get past the first attack and not have to worry about the second attack, you may mess up Dizzy's pattern.

it's 50/50 true... but there's a tactic to bait counter hit on Jam melee range with follow up K_fish, if u didn't poke with knock down attack, u'll eat nasty counter

[JamsLegs]

FB Candy = treating the opponent with a FB 1~3 a match to keep them wondering and scared. Fears IMO is FB(FB Candy), 2S(2S Hunter), and [326K on wakup/between opponents combos] When Opponent is Scared Jam's Mixup/Crossup Game is Awsome. 1. FB's --> Use Sparingly, Treat it like candy. When You Think Someone Needs Some Candy, Hit That FB and Start Jamming (Her Wall Loop). You Should Use it when they start running, when they mess up, during certain moves that don't go under her FB (ex. SoL's VV) and etc... This Starts The Fear 2. 25%Tension--> If you get the opponent with the FB Candy, most players will start watch Your Tension bar. The Way You Can Tell The Opponent Is Watching Your Tension is when you have 25% they start being more cautious and start doing safe moves such as moves that have quick recovery. To Be Continued on How to Put Fear In The Opponent. (2S Hunter Next). Have Fun Criticizing. my Idea's

[1muvwndr]

2. 25%Tension--> If you get the opponent with the FB Candy, most players will start

watch Your Tension bar. The Way You Can Tell The Opponent Is

Watching Your Tension is when you have 25% they start being more

cautious and start doing safe moves such as moves that have quick

recovery.

They are cautious as long as they are at mid range. At close/far they are pretty much safe against FBPB. A good player will keep this in mind and zone you accordingly.

About 2S CH hunting, a good player can mash out of 2S CH stun 2 out of 3 times even at close range. So don't treat 2S CH as a guaranteed combo starter but rather as a tool to put on some pressure.

About 623K during opponent's string, it can be done but if you miss, you are pretty much dead. Usually not worth it.

[JamsLegs]

Indeed a good player will zone me accordingly for the FB's, but if their too far its technically a deadlock until someone comes in range. Jam herself can close the gap any time she wants so being far is just stopping Jam for the time being. If they are close, The person playing with Jam should know how to FRC grab to a wall combo, or have a good Crossup/Mixup to get back into respectable range. FBPB is just for them to play out side their play style. And of coarse FBPB's arn't just for offense, it is a really good Defensive move as well (ex. When opponents charge to you, or when an opponent is in a start up of a move. 2S CH hunting, even though it is able to get mashed out of pretty easily for a good player, will cause them to think about coming close with some BS. Its not meant to be spammed but to set a barrier like: Bridget... Jam would throw PB & 2S not only cause its good priority for the match up but also it will warn the Bridget player not to come to close. Once you see Bridget come close less and less, then Jam will start taking Bridget's territory. 623K in the middle of a combo, IMO should only be used to stop a certain block string from recurring frequently or at all. Plus The Jam should know when the right moment to input her 623K or the Jam player just doesn't want to win. If a combo is 623K'ed enough the opponent will be afraid to do it again, unless the opponent is stupid.

[excelence]

for the character types who specialize on zoning, being too far from Jam was never actually a bad thing, except if they play as a certain low tier character ... it gives them a time needed to setup stuff, in fact Jam would be in trouble if she didn't close the gap fast, but in melee character fight, indeed being out of range is a dead lock in this kind of situation, they have 2 option 1st being offensive yomi what their opponent might do and counter it. 2nd being defensive and react to what their opponent doing regarding 2sch err... probably i'm a noob, what kind of Bridget want to get close on Jam in neutral state?

[JamsLegs]

Well It just might be my experience with Bridgets. I know Many brave Bridgets who would come infront of Jam like its her business.

[excelence]

without Yoyo set i'm certain her ground pokes destroy Bridget ground option and can lead to half of his life bar easily. even with yoyo out it's better for him to just react to what Jam Player might do as when playing Bridget u can't really makes many mistakes... ugh Jam's board, kill him with 2s and Gekirin edit: PB got killed by Bridget 2k/2d btw

[JamsLegs]

What are the answers who get dp happy? because some you can backdash and run block normally gets you grabbed. should i do 236p when i get infront of him so i mixes up his button input or what?

[excelence]

i remember back there when i fighting Ky, i think i do OS parry & 6hs as meaty and the timing for 236p to mix up their input button is harder than it looks, but this kind of meaty work wonder on Sol,OS,Jam & Chip

[JamsLegs]

even though VV has multiple hits, will the parry give Jam enough time to counter?

[excelence]

the idea of parrying is to counter single hit move or give her time to block the 2nd hit of multiple hit move and maybe it's not exactly an os but buffering parry before doing 6hs

[JamsLegs]

alright sounds fair. now going for Throws 1.Now Her Regular does around 30~40 damage. 2. Her Throw FRC -> 5S x2 -> j.c, j.D 214k does about 60 ~ 70 damage 3. Her Throw j.c, j.S, j.HS -> 214k does around 60 ~ 70 damage Question1... Is it worth giving up 25% tension for a 20 ~ 30 damage difference or even non? I also know Jam Gains Stupid tension like a crazy person... Question2... Then again Jam Can Throw FRC -> 5S, 2HS, 6HS, HS to the wall for about 60 ~ 70 damage, I would do a Jam Loop but it seems like the opponent falls to fast, or can i continue it

[Bluewindz]

If you went for the wall loop and your opponent falls pretty fast, hopefully you can get at least two wall splats (do not remember the limit off of FRC throw), but then you can do a corner mixup. I think there is about 4 or 5+ variations off of choujin and lots of other things you can do. To name some stuff: 1. flame kick (hits front) 2. flame kick (hits back) 3. Jumping Dust 4. land 5k 5. land throw As for the amount of repetitions of loops, a lot has to do with the timing of your inputs. I think the factor is after your 6HS, how fast can you input your dash into your next move. Also each successful or unsuccessful fast input adds or takes away from the amount of repetitions you can do. Like if you were slow on your initial input of your wall loop, you may only be able to do one more, or vice versa, you could do two more repetitions. Also the 20-30 extra damage is situational. If your opponent is close to death, then it is absolutely worth it. Burn your entire tension bar if you have to if you are within kill range.

[1muvwndr]

Sadly, Jam's throw is really not somthing your opponent should fear. The most you can get out of it without guardbar filled is about 110dmg (throw, j.D, 236K, charged 236K into 2 wall loops, on Pot only). I think that's because her 6HS is throw invul and thus she has the upper edge when both players try to throw. I sometimes throw FRC just to get a charge. If you throw FRC -> 2HS 2 hits -> charge, you can still get a decent oki. Or you can just throw FRC -> 2S/c.S 2HS 6HS HS into charge. Oh, btw, on Sol only: throw FRC 2S/c.S 2HS 2hits 6HS f.S j.c j.S j.P J.S j.c j.S j.HS 236K EDIT: on some chars you can wall loop from the airthrow.

[JamsLegs]

Ah Ha.. Choujin seems to be the main mixup/Crossup move... Questions... 1. lets say Jam does 236S~>P can Jam get grabbed During it? and If so Can Jam Tech Out of it? 2. Why Is OS and SL a hard matchup? 3. When Is IAD 623K (going down) best used? 4. Is 2D into a 214K a bad move? Normally I Go to training mode and practice my combo's... Now should i practice with auto recover? and can a person recover right at the right moment like the Dummy?

[excelence]

1. got grabbed on reaction? yes, Can Jam tech out of it? i'm not certain. but u can only tech throw whenever u can do the throw 2. OS your ground poke got stuffed with fafnir, your iad eat dustloop. Slayer: your Ground poke got 2hsch, your air dash ... he got more aa than everyone in the games 3. punishing slidehead? 4. it's an option, but usually... yes IMO

[1muvwndr]

1. Jam can be grabbed from any 236S move (though the FB is kinda hard to grab) 2. HOS - better priority on ground moves & longer range, better antiairs, awesome air-to-air game Slayer - as excellence said but I find him easier than HOS because he's a lot slower 3. when it hits in the corner 4. You can get punished if it's blocked, plus 2D into IAD has more options, some of which are faster and safer than the plain 214K. The downside is that you can get airgrabbed if the opponent expects the IAD.

[excelence]

-reorganizing

-reorganizing

Tager

3C>22BC>22C>6C>22C>6C>22C>6C>22C>6C>22C>6C>22C>6C>2369C 7046

corner

3C>22BC>22BC>6C>5D>6B>236D>6C>5D>5B>6B>5C>236D 5376

Jin

3C>22BC>22C>6C>22C>22C>6C>22C>6C>22C>6C>jC>236C 19 hits 6500+

CH 5C>5D>5C>6C>5C>6C>214A>2B>6C>2369C 5286

V-13

3C>22C>6C>22C>22C>6C>5D>6B>5C>6B>5C>236D 4776

6A>6C>BC>6C>BC>6C>BC>6C>2D>28D>jB>jB>jC>236C 3574

Rachel

3C>22BC>22BC>6C>22B>22C>6C>22C>6C>22C>6C>jC>236C 20 hits 5700+

corner

3C>22BC>22BC>22BC>22BC>22BC>6C>5D>5B>6B>5C>236D 7648

Litchi

3C>22BC>6C>22C>6C>22C>6C>22C>jB>jB>jC>236C 4986

Combo Damage

Starter 6A into 6C into 5D>6B>5C>6B>5C>236D

1 x 6C 3077

2 x 6C 3197

3 x 6C 3304

4 x 6C 3398

5 x 6C 3482

120, 107, 94, 84

Jin Combo

5D>5C>6C>5C>6C>>214A>2B>6C>jC>236C 4461 damage

CH 5C>5D>5C>6C>5C>6C>>214A>2B>6C>2369C 5201 damage

CH 2C is 5086

5A into 6A BNB 1 rep of 6C - 2657

2 reps - 2756

3 reps - 2800ish

4 reps - 2926

Hakumen

3C>22bc>6C>22C>6C>22C>6C>22C>6C>22C>6C>22C>6C>jC>236C 21 hit 6300 damage

no wonder it's fucking hard to search for char specific combos on Noel's board... i'm looking at the wrong thread