[CP] Valkenhayn vs Tsubaki

[Kiba]

Discuss the Tsubaki matchup here! Fireballs and DPs galore!

[Kiba]

I guess people were expecting me to post info here. NeoBalrog reminded me about this.

Match start, I highly recommend trying to rush her down ASAP. If you don't and you allow her to get at least one stock, not only is it going to be more problematic for you in neutral but it's gonna be a hassle trying to pressure her because she can followup her DP. I'm not saying be a maniac and get in at all costs but you need to be smart about how you get in. If the Tsubaki IADs backwards, you can IAD yourself or use something like 236A. Try not to be very aggressive at match start because afaik all of your options will lose to her 22B which staggers on CH, gets her 3.5k, and puts in you in the corner.

If she uses jump back j.236A at match start you can quickly run underneath with wolf and get her but that requires that you haven't committed to anything else. Jump back j.236A is good when you're getting away but it's horrible if you opt to advance match start.

If she's charging in neutral and you wanna get to her quick, I''m not sure what the best option is. I've seen people try to use beast cannon and Tsubaki just reacts with DP. Even if you manage to make it whiff remember she can follow it up if she has charge, meaning you'll have to use even more wolf meter to try and avoid it. That's just the problem. When I play Valk's and I have charge I don't really care what they try to do to me on wakeup, I'm most likely gonna DP if I have charge to follow up. If I see w5C, I'm most likely gonna DP because all of Valk's followup offensive options lose to DP. You can try to bait the DP by doing nothing after w5C, or using 7D/4D or something, but it becomes a guessing game. They may not even DP and you would've lost your pressure advantage. It's a hassle.

On the other end, when Tsubaki is pressuring you, make sure you use your barrier. Most of her normals will whiff on barrier guard and you can easily hj.D > 7D your way out. Using barrier will mean that she has to work harder to stay in, using methods like 5B > IAD j.CC (Which loses to 5D > 5B if you're alert) or 5B > 6C > j.D stuff (Dunno about this yet). If you don't barrier you're gonna be blocking for a long time, since she can just rely on 5A pressure, throws and command grabs. There is no reason to use 6A in this matchup unless you can react to her 6A overhead, but even then I'd suggest poking her out with 2A rather than 6A, since her 6A can FC. If you mistime it, you're giving her more damage and corner carry.

In neutral, her 236A shield charge doesn't have much range, but if she follows this up with charge (So 236A > 214D), she can hit you full screen away and she'll hit you in the air if you're quite near to the ground. It's unsafe if blocked though, but then she can follow up with 22D to make it safer or to score CHs, and 22D deals a lot of damage with CT on CH midscreen. This is why I say you've gotta be observant with how much charge Tsubaki possesses.

Oh yeah speaking of neutral, her fireballs. Not sure what advice to give here because I have issues getting around both the ground and air versions. The ground version just means you'll have to be a good boy and stay put (and let her charge), or use w66D/ hj.D > wolf cannon/command dashes, but this doesn't stop her from anti airing you. With the air version, you can only go under it if you're near her otherwise forget it, you'll have to go up and over and like I said earlier, she can try to anti air you, or even use 236C to return the pace to neutral. Speaking of which, try not to get carried away with running around in wolf form alot, she can hit you with 236C (> 214D ) if she wanted.

If she uses the blade super in neutral, you're gonna have to block it. If you try to avoid it you'll be expending way too much wolf meter to do so, and I don't think it's really worth it unless you're desperate. So, you block it, she gets at least two charge, then you have to really think about how you're getting back in.

Also, know when to burst, I understand most Valk players don't like to be touched (I'm rather patient with bursts and very rarely use CAs), but please don't burst from something like 5A, she is going no where with that. Also note if you burst, Tsubaki doesn't need to rush in to get back to you and she can simply charge.

The key is to limit how much charge she has overall asap, and wolf form helps with this, simply running in wolf form has its own mindgame. If she has no charge and you have her locked down she's toast, that DP is gonna cost her if it is blocked, or if it whiffs. Oh another thing to note, if you use 5C and you special cancel it expect to get DP'd if the Tsubaki knows about Valk. If the Tsubaki understands Valk, you can use stuff like 5C > 7D for a sort of fake out. In terms of what pressure to implement, use your wolf break pressure very early, so stuff like w5A/5B > wolf break > j.A. Remember that w5B > wolf break > j.A is tight if you're using 1DCA method. If you're using human pressure, to me I don't feel it's much of an issue unless you have at least 50% heat because then you'll have IOH > j.C > RC > j.C, so personally I wouldn't DP but that doesn't mean another Tsubaki player won't. The wolf is much more scarier to deal with, but that's just it. If the player is more comfortable with human form stuff you'll have to incorporate wolf mixup into it, like 2A > 2C > j.D > 3D > j.A > Command grab for example.

I would normaly say the MU is in Valk's favour, but once Tsubaki has at least 1 charge, momentum shifts greatly. It's too easy for Tsubaki to abuse DP here because she can cover it up. However, the Tsubaki will lose if their focus is on charge rather than the wolf, because we can punish her for it. If you want to see how this matchup is handled, watch any Valk against Kuresu or Konan. Watching only one of them doesn't give you the full picture.

Tips to remember:

• If she doesn't have charge while you're pressuring her, she has to be very careful, so you'd treat her like any other character with a DP.
  
• If she has the charge stay alert. If she has one charge, you can block 623C > j.214D and punish her. If she uses 623C > j.236D you will have to run underneath her to punish her in time. If you wait to long you won't be able to punish her but she'll still have to be on the defense. The problem is that you don't really know how the Tsubaki is going to follow up.
  
• If she has two charge the above still applies, but you need to be aware that she can cancel j.236D into j.214D. Again that can be punished on whiff with a quick starter (w5C for instance).
  
• Remember she can cancel her DP, j.236X, 236A/B/C and 214B into D specials on block and whiff.
  
• Emphasis that she can follow up on whiff. This is a major factor.
  
• Barrier block when blocking. Push her out, and poke her out with 2A, or get out and way with wolf. You don't want to be blocking her for long trust me.
  
• If you use w5C/5C be prepared for a DP.
  
• She will lose to you if she tries to challenge you air to air.
  
• Don't be reckless with bursts and CAs.
  
• Spending too long on the ground with wolf will encourage Tsubaki to use 236X and 214X in neutral. If she attempts 236X without charge, you can punish if whiffed or blocked.
  
• If she's getting greedy with charge, 236A wolf cannon can help if you're close enough.
  

[Magaki]

Interesting.

I know you mentionned that barrier blocking works quite well but can you give us some blockstrings that we can work on in training mode ? Also, do you know if there are some blockstrings where we can IB>backdash for a 5C punish ?

If I remember right, Tsubaki had some setups for her unblockable 22D in Extend. Even though she doesn't seem to have unblockables anymore, do you know if there are other particularly good setups we have to watch out for ?

[Kiba]

Interesting.

I know you mentionned that barrier blocking works quite well but can you give us some blockstrings that we can work on in training mode ? Also, do you know if there are some blockstrings where we can IB>backdash for a 5C punish ?

There's a list of blockstrings in the Tsubaki strategy guide but I'll list some:

• 5BB > 2BB > 5CC - This is a standard blockstring and you have to block it. If she charge cancels after 5CC she'll need to dash back in to pressure you so you can jump out or poke her out. Try not to be too fast in trying to poke out though, wait until you see the charge cancel. If you try to poke her when she uses 6B (especially when she isn't very close) she'll just get CH and a full combo into corner carry.
  
  
• 5A xN - Not much you can do about this because what she's gonna do is a gamble. She can keep doing it with microdashes to frame trap you if you mash, or go into throw or command grab. It can also stop you from jumping out. IB'ing helps with poking out though.
  
  5B > 2B - This is where she can reset pressure and is you chance to get out or poke her out. Be aware she can do 2B then delay the followup B (so 2BB - delay) for frame traps. Speaking of frame traps.
  
  
  
• She doesn't have a safe way to gatling into overhead.
  
• 6B is a normal Tsubaki can use to reset pressure. It's +1 on block, but if IB'd it's unsafe. If it's barrier blocked, she needs to dash in more to pressure, you can poke out.
  
• She can also charge cancel normals to reset pressure, again the information for this is in the Tsubaki strategy guide here.
  
  
  Frame traps
  
  • 5A > 5B
    
  • 5B(Delay)B
    
  • 2B(Delay)B
    
  • 5CC > 6B
    
  • 5C(Delay)C
    
  • 6BB

  Blockstrings she can use against your barrier:

  [*]5B/5A > IAD j.CC - loses to 5D > w5B if you're on point, otherwise you'll have to block. 6A is an option, but unreliable.

  [*]5B/5C > 6C > j.D > j.A/j.C - Not sure if this loses to 5D > w5B. 6C > j.D > j.A normally beats anti air options, 6C > j.D > j.C > beats mashing.

  For the second question, I don't think there's enough time for you to IB > Backdash and then use w5B to punish any of her normals.

  Even though she doesn't seem to have unblockables anymore, do you know if there are other particularly good setups we have to watch out for?

  Honestly there's way too many to list. Command grab setups, 6A resets, j.236A oki, 22B strikes at match start. You can view them here. Also, please read the information on Tsubaki's j.236A oki. It'll be extremely useful if you know the details of that. You can even watch the video here.

[Kiba]

Sorry to double post, wanted to point something out.

Looking back at the matches I had with KaiserCX, Valk's 2B seems to do really well at low profiling Tsubaki's 5A pressure.

[Kiba]

If she uses the blade super in neutral, you're gonna have to block it. If you try to avoid it you'll be expending way too much wolf meter to do so, and I don't think it's really worth it unless you're desperate. So, you block it, she gets at least two charge, then you have to really think about how you're getting back in.

Nvm I stand corrected. You can avoid the blade super by using hj.D > 6D but you have to distance yourself to avoid the last few blades.

[Kiba]

Some more things which makes this matchup easier!

-w5C stuffs her 236X/214X in neutral.

-If she uses the ground fireball you need to quickly react with wj.66D > j.C if you want to get her. If you're late, she can 2C you.

-her j.236A can be beaten with dash > 5B.

Also, when you do lock her down in the corner. Just run back and idle in wolf. She actually can't do anything and it was funny to see LOL.

-If she charges then you can try to get a hit but remember she may be able to react.

-If she uses j.D, it has landing recovery, so you can run to her and catch her with w5B once she lands. I tried using w5C and I wasn't successful all the time. Sometimes she was able to block it.

-If she uses j.236A then run underneath and w5B her.

-If she uses 236X/214X, you'll have to w5C it on reaction.

-If she tries to use the dive, use w5B to AA her, or if she goes past you, use w5C and catch her in recovery.

-If she tries to IAD out you can just w5B her but if she barrier blocks, transition into standard air pressure.

And of course if she DPs she'll be out of range so it won't hit you. If she has charge you need to be ready to AA the dive followup (or make it whiff), or punish her falling if she cancels it into j.236D.