[CP1.1] Tsubaki Yayoi Questions and Answers Thread

[Zouf]

I don't quite remember which video I saw it on, but I remember seeing someone do "6A > 5CC > 6BB > 214B > 5C > 2CC > 236? > 214B > 22B"

I can't figure out which version of 236X was used to get the combo to work.

Your combo can't work here. It's 5C > 2C, not 2CC.

 

Both B and C version of 236 work here, C dealing more damage

[Monarch]

No, that's the thing, he did use 2CC and it still worked.

[Errol]

it is possible to use 2cc > 236x in combos, but it's not common. 

 

it is kind of a copout for when it is possible to do an IAD but it's tight because it's late in the combo. 

 

I would think the extra time would cause them to tech out at the 214B SMP hit. 

[TeeJay]

About the pressure thing, it seems comfort is my enemy. Fresh out of the practice room I was doing better, but a few hours in the online lobby, I started going on auto-pilot and I'm not sure what I was thinking about the last few matches-- probably much more on neutral. It will be a process. i should say that I did sub Tsubaki from CS2 onward. My pickup Litchi still seems at least even or more consistent. I hate the Tsubaki vs Ragna matchup. I let myself get pushed back to easy. 

 

I wonder if anyone has ever compiled percentages of what options top players use? I would find that interesting. 

DP %

Strings%

etc. 

[Zouf]

No, that's the thing, he did use 2CC and it still worked.

Oh ok.

 

I'll try it but it's probably either character specific, or a delaying stuff which i wouldn't do for an extra 100 damage. And as Errol said, they could probably tech after 214B SMP, so not worth it at all

 

edit : ok i tried it, you have to delay 2CC, then delay 236A/B (whichever you prefer), and the opponent can tech after 214B as we suggested. So yeah, it's crap

 

If you really wanna do more damage you'll want to go for the IAD route, and then the air ender for an extra 300 damage.

[TeeJay]

I've been looking through the matchup discussions as well as the strategy guides regarding neutral game-plans. 

 

I play Tsubaki not because I'm naturally compatible with her, but because I think she's really fun strategically to use and will allow me to grow as a fighting game player. She's simple enough but nothing comes too easy. 

 

It may because I'm a former Litchi main (I abused all of those wall-bounce counter-hits), but using Tsubaki in neutral terrifies me. If I'm playing against a Ragna, Jin, or a few other characters, I feel like I'm getting bullied in neutral. Ragna's 5B and 5C from the beginning is stifling. Punishing the max spacing he uses can also be tricky. I am working on purging those 5BB habits with 5B pokes which has been successful.

 

I've been formulating options off of IAD j.C such as IAD j.C (delayed C), IAD j.C grab (I see Konan do this which must be due to the delay C fear). Along with this, basic movement options. 

 

I see rising j.B j.CC works on some characters too. 

 

I also have been wondering about baiting whiffs with things like 2a/5a 22B (D). (Gimmicky?). I'm aware that j.214a orb works well against Ragna and I got it going last night. I've had success with D orb 236D but less against better players or Kagura. 

 

I am just don't have the gameplan down with Tsubaki against some of the heavy hitters: Ragna, Azrael, Kagura, Terumi, a good Tager or Mu. Interestingly, I feel better against quicker, fast characters that can't beat me with range. 

[zaeris]

Seems like you've just discovered how terrible tsubaki is that's her approach is terrible because she simpler loses to other charcter with a rush down type but with just better normals.

Anyway my advised is closely look at her galting( revolver action) rotation possibility and you can see she does have lots of option where 6a can come after 5a, 5b, 5bb, 2b and 2a

6a and 6b have similar animation or so a friends say although from my perspective it's quite easy to distinguish.

[chzchan]

6a and 6b have similar animation or so a friends say although from my perspective it's quite easy to distinguish.

 

The people I fight can distinguish it from the sound. She makes the same sound with 6A as she does with 6C. Then she makes the same sound with 6B that she does with 3C.

[Airk]

I always just watch the book. 

[chzchan]

I'd think reacting to sound would be faster than reacting to visuals. I actually do the same thing against characters with ambiguous mixups like Azrael's 6D and 3D.

[Airk]

Reacting to sound isn't a good idea if you ever want to play at a tournament though.  And I don't see why it would necessarily be any faster. I suppose it depends on when the sample plays.

[Sashi]

I don't know about you, but reacting to audio is a lot easier for me than reacting to visuals. That said, the floating book is an obvious visual cue and it's pretty free for anyone who knows that to watch for it and block high.

[Zouf]

I've been looking through the matchup discussions as well as the strategy guides regarding neutral game-plans. 

 

I play Tsubaki not because I'm naturally compatible with her, but because I think she's really fun strategically to use and will allow me to grow as a fighting game player. She's simple enough but nothing comes too easy. 

 

It may because I'm a former Litchi main (I abused all of those wall-bounce counter-hits), but using Tsubaki in neutral terrifies me. If I'm playing against a Ragna, Jin, or a few other characters, I feel like I'm getting bullied in neutral. Ragna's 5B and 5C from the beginning is stifling. Punishing the max spacing he uses can also be tricky. I am working on purging those 5BB habits with 5B pokes which has been successful.

 

I've been formulating options off of IAD j.C such as IAD j.C (delayed C), IAD j.C grab (I see Konan do this which must be due to the delay C fear). Along with this, basic movement options. 

 

I see rising j.B j.CC works on some characters too. 

 

I also have been wondering about baiting whiffs with things like 2a/5a 22B (D). (Gimmicky?). I'm aware that j.214a orb works well against Ragna and I got it going last night. I've had success with D orb 236D but less against better players or Kagura. 

 

I am just don't have the gameplan down with Tsubaki against some of the heavy hitters: Ragna, Azrael, Kagura, Terumi, a good Tager or Mu. Interestingly, I feel better against quicker, fast characters that can't beat me with range. 

 

Coming from Litchi, I can understand your pain. She's nowhere near as good as her in neutral/okizeme/mixup/pressure.

 

Approaching is the greatest issue for Tsubaki, as, like you said, her neutral is just no good (they kept nerfing it since CS2, for some reasons)

 

Once you hit the guard you have somewhat of a mixup, which is not terribly good or bad. A lot of frametraps, no bait, a mediocre overhead and that's it. 

 

5B > 6B is your friend tho. It's a good gatling that catches mashers, makes Tsubaki approach more safely, is + on guard and a good starter if you can confirm it.

 

Well, you don't want to let your opponent escape if you can help it, as you'll go back to neutral and lose most of the time. Her okizeme game is not *so* bad, especially in corner.

[chzchan]

Is there a reason why we are able to cancel 236D into 214B or 22B on whiff? Is it just there for fun?

Are there any practical uses for either besides autocorrecting if your opponent jumps out of the way of 236D?

[Monarch]

So would someone mind telling me why it's so hard to follow up with 5C after a 623C<j.214B (whiff) mid-screen combo? I find it stupid that I'm missing out on extra damage because I haven't mastered the timing.

[Kiba]

Is there a reason why we are able to cancel 236D into 214B or 22B on whiff? Is it just there for fun?

Are there any practical uses for either besides autocorrecting if your opponent jumps out of the way of 236D?

 

Nothing else comes to mind really.

 

So would someone mind telling me why it's so hard to follow up with 5C after a 623C<j.214B (whiff) mid-screen combo? I find it stupid that I'm missing out on extra damage because I haven't mastered the timing.

 

623C > j.214B(w) > 5C is impossible you have to use 623C > j.214A(w) > (Dash) 5C. Can't explain why it's hard  although the timing varies amongst each character. If anyone can get it down consistently then awesome, otherwise I won't advise going for it.

[Monarch]

So after practicing it a bit in training mode, I feel more comfortable. The timing is weird, but the same for each character, save for a few below:

Carl (5C connects, 2C whiffs)

Azrael (5C connects, 2C whiffs)

Amane (5C connects, 2C whiffs)

Bang (5C connects, 2C whiffs)

Kagura (5C connects, 2C whiffs)

Yes, I know the combo is supposed to work on everyone, but those are special cases. I'm wondering if it has any relation to height, because everyone else was pretty easy.

[TheGreatReptar]

Those are all the characters that 623C> j.214B(w)>5A doesn't work on so it might actually just not work on them. Amane it definitely just straight up won't work on him. All their hitboxes while in untech state in the air are slightly higher than the rest of the cast and 5C floats slightly higher than 5A so it probably doesn't work.

[Kiba]

It does work on them (ex Amane). It's just harder since you have to slightly delay the 5A/5C followup.

[Monarch]

I don't quite remember which video I saw it on, but I remember seeing someone do "6A > 5CC > 6BB > 214B > 5C > 2CC > 236? > 214B > 22B"

I can't figure out which version of 236X was used to get the combo to work.

*Bump*

I finally found the video where it happened:

http://youtu.be/TWm5J5uNgnI @50:40

[zaeris]

Even though you say you're losing damage but the mid screen combo are meh in terms of damage and it only serves as a corner carry combo so using 5a for consistency is not that bad. Of course it's dandy if you feel 5c is more comfortable. Anyway if you're playing around with it you can try 623c j214a whiff 5b 2c

[chzchan]

I have been trying out corner 22D(max charge) > 6C(cross under) > Blade Super in order to lock people in with reverse knockback from the projectiles even if they barrier. Is there any other way to get a similar effect/setup in other places? It just looks so damn cool and it really confuses the hell out of people.

[Sadeyo]

When Tsubaki is on the defense is her DP her best option of getting out and enough time to gain a stock or two? Please don't consider supers or astrals as a counter option since I'm trying to keep it meterless.

[Monarch]

Well.. yeah. Of course you'll want to do 623C>214A to get some breathing room for you to charge. Now that this has been brought up, I have a question.

How come people do 623C>214A instead of 623C>236A>214A? The latter does offer more more damage, and about the same charge time.

[TeeJay]

Is the knockdown time the different or does the latter leave you in the air longer? Does the latter leave you further away if you want to oki? I think you can do 623C>214A a bit closer to the ground. 

 

Well.. yeah. Of course you'll want to do 623C>214A to get some breathing room for you to charge. Now that this has been brought up, I have a question.

How come people do 623C>214A instead of 623C>236A>214A? The latter does offer more more damage, and about the same charge time.

 

After testing, I'm not sure. It does seem you can 214A quick enough in the former version to get to the ground a little quicker.