[CP1.1] Valkenhayn Q&A Thread

[Magaki]

3C is the most optimal choice yeah because it gives you enough time to get in w5C range and avoid any kind of wake-up DP except Ragna's and Litchi's.

Comparatively, falling jC enders were really easy to do in Extend but in CP, the oki it gives isn't really that great so I always avoid it and a lot of japanese players seems to think the same. That's why it's not surprising that delayed tech became an easier way to mess with Valk's oki and that's why I made sure to have at least one meaty for any enders that can punish rolls or late techs in the list I made.

Having one more way to deal with that is welcome.

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Only found one thing interesting so far: After a 6C>3C ender, you can delay a bit and do 236B>4DC>w5C. If 236B whiffs, you can do 4D>wolf brake and be in perfect range to hit with the tippity tip of w5C.

While this is by no means a mash safe meaty, it's a really interesting option against DP but it uses a fifth (quarter ?) of the wolf gauge which shouldn't be a problem because of how much wolf gauge the 6C>3C ender gives back.

I honestly don't know if it's worth putting amongst the anti-DP setups or not though.

[Dreize]

You should totally make a section in the oki thread dedicated to delayed techs.

[Magaki]

Great idea. I'll do it once I'll find more datas.

[Kiba]

S'ppose that's a thumbs up to keeping the oki thread. Sure, & I agree with Dreize.

[Dreize]

I have a question for Kiba, Magaki, Kaiser, Shyn (well maybe not really since he uses stick), and whoever else frequents these forums.

How on earth are you guys executing the wolf brake on the Ps3 pad?

Since I used pad in Extend as well (unfortunately) I had similar issues, but at least then I had an answer to them. A+B or B+C binded to a trigger in Extend would always be a w[5C] command dash when in wolf mode. Press it twice while almost simultaneously pressing the A button and you'd get the wolf brake w[j.A] IOH. Simple.

But now, due to the CP command change I can't use that method anymore. So what can I do? Well, I can bind my A button to a trigger then piano the 1DC while almost simultaneously pressing the A trigger. That works, and it's actually my preferred method since I can do it consistently and with ease, plus it's 2 frames faster which is also great (any w[j.A] IOH is pretty much unreactable though).

But see, I don't want to bind my A to a trigger, it just feels uncomfortable for everything else aside from the wolf brake w[j.A] IOH.

I can't do 1DC on the face buttons while at the same time pressing the A face button. I can't move my finger/thumb from the 1DC to the A fast enough. It doesn't even feel physically possible.

How are you guys coping with this?

[KaiserCX]

I'm actually on stick as well so I don't know the best way to do it on controller, but you can actually bind B+C to a shoulder button for the wolf stop, but that might be awkward to pull off. I believe Kiba was using 6D4C, but he might have stopped using that.

[Dreize]

I was hoping that it wouldn't have to come to that, but at least this way it's physically possible.

It's a bit awkward, but I can do it. Not as consistently as piano 1DC + trigger A though.

Why didn't ArcSysWorks allow us to assign the same command to more than one button? The dream is dead.

[Stellarcircle5]

I had this problem initially as well, Dreize. But I found a way that works for me. It may sound a bit awkward, but do it while resting your entire thumb slightly sideways on A, C, and D. Once the time for braking comes around, roll your thumb from D to C to A in a triangle motion. D should be just around the underside of where your thumb joint is, and C/A should be on the pad of your thumb.

If you find bing B and C to a shoulder buttons, go ahead. But I've found braking to be a cakewalk so far using my method, though I suppose it varies from person to person.

[Kiba]

I have a question for Kiba, Magaki, Kaiser, Shyn (well maybe not really since he uses stick), and whoever else frequents these forums.

How on earth are you guys executing the wolf brake on the Ps3 pad?

How are you guys coping with this?

I believe Kiba was using 6D4C, but he might have stopped using that.

Yeah, I use 6D > 4CA. It is awkward but I've gotten used to it. I currently find it more difficult to use 1DCA. I have a confession too. You see in the Valk wolf brake tutorial when I used the IOH j.A on Ragna's wakeup? It took me a while to do that. That's how much I'm not used to it yet, well like that anyway. I'm used to doing it after a wolf normal because I can buffer 6D in a more relaxed timing.

[Magaki]

With 1DCA, you can piano it with no timing. I can do it better on pad rather than on stick because sliding is much easier and there is no need for any specific coordination with one finger rather than three. Well, actually THERE IS a timing but you have to do it extremely fast to notice that you were too quick. I simply press D with the tip of my hand, move my wrist and press C then slide it to A. I move my wrist in a way that it allows me to simply go in a straight line from C to A. You have to move your thumb really fast anyway so try to see if the position of your hand is the reason of your problem or not.

What I'm suggesting you is to focus on 6D4CA when it comes to wolf normals as it's still mash safe. 1DCA should be used either as a combo filler or as a meaty but it's far from being as rewarding as wjC or as safe as w5C when it comes to okizeme. I use the same method with 1DCA and 6D4CA but the window is much bigger for the latter like Kiba explained above.

Offline, I'm confident about the fact that if I do w5B/w5C, I can do 6D4CA with ease. This is not the case with 1DCA. Sometimes I can pull it off 5 times in a row. Sometimes I can't manage to do it right even once for several minutes. Also, I've trained daily with brjAs and wolf loop since the first day I managed to get my hands on CP. Seems it's more a question of being regular and rigorous rather than trying to get everything right in one go. Hope that helped.

[Dreize]

Hmm, thanks for the input guys. Stella and Magaki's way sound extremely awkward. Kinda curious about Kiba's control scheme as well.

Looks like I'll have to grind this out hard just like I did in Extend.

[Kriegdrache]

Yo, so I was messing around with challenges and I came across challenge 26, and I can do it fine, it's actually p.easy, but I was wondering, is the timing for 2D > 5D > h5b the same for 2D > 5D > 2C, cause Im actually having trouble with the latter for some reason. I may be overthinking things, but I thought I'd ask.

Also, is 26 even a practical combo? It seems like it'd be pretty darn easy to do in a match, but I'm unsure if the wolf meter it could consume would make it a bit meh.

Thanks guys~ (also Im still practicing wolf brake!)

[Kiba]

Yo, so I was messing around with challenges and I came across challenge 26, and I can do it fine, it's actually p.easy, but I was wondering, is the timing for 2D > 5D > h5b the same for 2D > 5D > 2C, cause Im actually having trouble with the latter for some reason. I may be overthinking things, but I thought I'd ask.

The timing is different. It's strict with 2C if you're following up with 6B. If you're too fast/slow 6B will whiff. If you're using 6C it's leniant.

Also, is 26 even a practical combo? It seems like it'd be pretty darn easy to do in a match, but I'm unsure if the wolf meter it could consume would make it a bit meh.

No..

Challenge combo 26 uses more wolf command dashes and deals less damage than the w5C combos in the combo thread. It's not worth it and you should be getting 3.2k+ from a w5C.

[HyroXIII]

What's should I keep in mind about his play style when switching from EX to CP Valkenhayn?

[Kiba]

Hmmm. His playstyle largely remains the same in CP but:

-Wolf form provides you with more offensive options so you'll probably be relying on wolf form a lot more, especially in the corner. You'll be playing footsies in neutral more too.

-You'll probably be using wolf brake alot more so I'll say try getting used to it. It's easier in CSE (5C > 3CA / 5CCA)

-2C, 5C and 3C can now be wolf cancelled so you can opt for a defensive followup rather than going for an 'unsafe' special followup (Excluding 2C since it's jump cancellable). Stuff like 5C/3C > 6D in neutral can be useful for approach.

-You'll generally be using less wolf meter this time around.

-It'll take time for you to get used to the new wolf movement so don't be upset if you can't do what you normally can. I'm still not happy with mine haha.

I hope this gives you rough idea.

[DJ_Blactricity]

Anyone got any tips for doing ...>w[j.236B>3D>5D]>j.C>land Sturm and ...>w[j.236B>7D>5D]>j.C>OD>j.C>land Sturm

[Kiba]

Anyone got any tips for doing ...>w[j.236B>3D>5D]>j.C>land Sturm and ...>w[j.236B>7D>5D]>j.C>OD>j.C>land Sturm

 

Not sure about using 3D but I can help with using 7D.

 

You can usually only do it when you use any combo into > w[j.C > dj.C > j236A > j.236B]. The 2 j.Cs and j.236A help in allowing you to be high enough to fall and get the sturm to work. You don't need to super jump in order for these combos to work.

 

With the w5C > 236A > 5D > 2C > 6B route, if you begin with a w5B/wj.B/wj.C confirm, you have to omit 2C > 236A otherwise wj.236B will whiff.

With the w5C > 6D > j.A > 5B > 2C > 6C route, if you begin from a wj.B/wj.C confirm, you can't use 2C > 6B otherwise wj.236B will whiff. So your combos will look like this:

 

 

5C > 6D > j.A > 5C > 236A > 5D > h[2C > 6B > 2C > 236A > 5B > 2C > j.D] > j.A > j.C > dj.C > j.236A > j.236B > 7D > j.D > j.C > OD > j.C > Sturm

5B/j.B/j.C/ > 5B > 5C > 6D > j.A > 5C > 236A > 5D > h[2C > 6B > 5B > 2C > j.D] > j.A > j.C > dj.C > j.236A > j.236B > 7D > j.D > j.C > OD > j.C > Sturm

 

w5B/5C > 5B > 5C > 6D > j.A > 5D > h[5B > 2C > 6C > 2C > 6B > 5B > 2C > j.D] > j.A > j.C > dj.C > j.236A > j.236B > 7D > j.D > j.C > OD > j.C > Sturm

j.B/j.C/ > 5B > 5C > 6D > j.A > 5D > h[5B > 2C > 6C > 5B > 2C > j.D] > j.A > j.C > dj.C > j.236A > j.236B > 7D > j.D > j.C > OD > j.C > Sturm

 

 

Sorry for the late response.

[EXonestar]

Okay...I just wish to get more understanding for Valk's pressure in wolf because i'm definitely lacking in this area.
I was looking at the strings that are mash safe/non-mash safe from the FAQ guide-  My question is . are there any more or are these ALL the non mash/mashable strings? 

I seem to get really stuck when IB'ing w5c -  which i believe is a problem because of wolf brake options after it.  What are the  main things I shud be looking for when attempting to  IB>punish?

 

[Kiba]

Okay...I just wish to get more understanding for Valk's pressure in wolf because i'm definitely lacking in this area.

I was looking at the strings that are mash safe/non-mash safe from the FAQ guide-  My question is . are there any more or are these ALL the non mash/mashable strings? 

I seem to get really stuck when IB'ing w5c -  which i believe is a problem because of wolf brake options after it.  What are the  main things I shud be looking for when attempting to  IB>punish?

 

 

The 1st question.

 

Yes that's all the mash safe/non mash safe WOLF BRAKE strings. There's more blockstring options Valkenhayn can use that don't use wolf brake.

 

w5B > 6D > j.A Is pretty good but loses to mashing.

w5C > 6D > j.A can lose to mashing, but the Valk could also use w5C > wolf brake > 5C and just get CH.

There's w5B > wj.C too, and I think that loses to mashing.

w5C > RC > w5C is gapless and doesn't lose to mashing.

 

In short, anything involving 6D can most likely be mashed out of.

 

 

2nd Question:

 

If you're trying to IB > Punish Valkenhayn's pressure, it'll be pretty difficult. You may beat w5C > 6D > j.A with 5A if you IB'd, but you probably wouldn't beat w5C > wolf brake > 5C or w5C > brjA. In addition w5B > brjA is mash safe even on IB, it's designed to tackle DPs.

 

Before determining whether you can poke out of w5C followups, you need to assess the level of the Valkenhayn player. If they are pretty one dimensional and don't use wolf brakes then you'll probably be fine but against those that do, you'll have to resort to DPs more, or try to block (Yeah I know). That's just the problem. Generally you don't know when you'll have the option to poke out and it usually requires a strong guess.

[Magaki]

w5B and w5C both have the same attack level (3) and will lead to the same result in blockstrings. Because of the nature of Valk's combos, most brakes or 6D>wjA will be done at max speed.

w5B/w5C>6D>wjA have exactly 4 frames gap minimum that you can IB to make it a 7 frames one. Therefore, only certain moves can be used on normal block against a w5B/w5C properly done. Moves like these concern Ragna and Kokonoe's 6A for example. And it will beat wjA/B/C if it was what the Valk intended to do.
Sadly for Litchi, she got no move that would allow her to do that. IB'ing w5B/5C and mash 5A right away is your best bet against 6D>wjX blockstrings.

w5C>1D4C or the wolf loop IS gapless if done at the proper speed. That's why w5C>RC>w5C is a huge waste of meter and is only used by Valks not confident enough to pull it off or simply playing online.

The best options for Valkenhayn in terms of blockstrings consist of alternating between brjA and wolf loops. Considering that w5B/C>brjA is gapless and wolf loops are gapless too, it would mean that you got no way to even DP out of Valk's strings if they are done properly.

However, there is something that a lot of people forget. brjA doesn't make you go forward and thus allow you to reset pressure. It means that against a Valkenhayn who abuse brjAs, you can decide to rather opt for barrier blocking which will force Valkenhayn to use 6D if he's too far after one blockstring to reset pressure. Sometimes, it will even make brjA whiff. That's one of the most common choices amongst top players against Valk along with delay teching hence why some players like Uma no Hone and Zekuso end up not using brjA that much.

Summary:
-Use IBs against Valkenhayns using 6D to reset pressure.
-Use Barrier Blocking against Valks using wolf loops and brjAs a lot.

P.S:  Kinda realized we never had anyone so far complaining about how difficult it is to deal with Valk's command grab added in his already sick high/low mixup.
Am I the only one making people rage offline because of it or it's just my imagination ? Guess I'll need to hit the lab and write a lot of tick throws/tech traps because we will need them for CP2 anyway.

[Falco252]

P.S:  Kinda realized we never had anyone so far complaining about how difficult it is to deal with Valk's command grab added in his already sick high/low mixup.

Am I the only one making people rage offline because of it or it's just my imagination ? Guess I'll need to hit the lab and write a lot of tick throws/tech traps because we will need them for CP2 anyway.

I've always found chars with good mixups having a command grab pretty dumb, and I use it nonetheless since it's a tool we're given.

(People get maaaaaaaaad over 2A > 5D > 236C )

[Stellarcircle5]

I've been wanting to implement safe jump setups into my corner game, but I'm drawing a complete blank of figuring out where and how to apply them. I know Valk can end certain combos with w.jB and then double jump into human for a falling j.C, but the issue again is what combos this applies to. Any tips on how to properly pull off a safe jump setup and in what combos?

[Kiba]

I've been wanting to implement safe jump setups into my corner game, but I'm drawing a complete blank of figuring out where and how to apply them. I know Valk can end certain combos with w.jB and then double jump into human for a falling j.C, but the issue again is what combos this applies to. Any tips on how to properly pull off a safe jump setup and in what combos?

 

Oh the Joker ender. I'll give you some examples:

 

From any wolf B/C confirm, you can do:

 

> w[5C > 6D > j.A > 5C > 236A > 2C > 6B > 5B > 2C > j.D > w[j.A > j.B > 5B > wj.AAA > j.B > 3D > j.B] - Then double jump and go for falling j.C or;

> w[5C > 6D > j.A > 5D] > 5B > 2C > 6C > 2C > 6B > 5B > 2C > j.D > w[j.A > j.B > 5B > wj.AAA > j.B > 3D > j.B] - Then double jump and go for falling j.C

 

From wolf confirms if you use 236A the combo will fail.

 

Human confirms could be like:

 

5B > 3C > 236A > 2A > 2C > 6C > 5B > 2C > j.D > w[j.A > j.B > 5B > wj.AAA > j.B > 3D > j.B] - Then double jump and go for falling j.C or;

 

With human confirms you have to omit 6B (in most circumstances) because the combo will fail.

 

Remember the safe jump setup doesn't work on Mu, for now.

[Dreize]

To be perfectly honest the Joker ender was better in Extend.

[Stellarcircle5]

To be perfectly honest the Joker ender was better in Extend.

Is it even worth using then? Are there certain characters that would have a harder time dealing with it than standard 6C > 3C oki? I'm trying to weigh the pros and cons of using this rather than the standard ender and I'm still left scratching my head.