NecroTheReaper Report post Posted February 23, 2014 Pretty much just translates to Azrael gets better the better you get at Azrael. I don't play as, but I've played against tons of Azrael's, and some give me trouble, some dont. I think its because he can transition well between solid offense and good defense that good players think he's average and great players think he's good (no disrespect to anyone). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThatHiroGuy Report post Posted February 23, 2014 I totally understand what you mean there. I do think he's average, but I just mean to shed some light on why I think he shouldn't be revered as this... amazing character like he has been. I mean, it doesn't really represent the character accurately in my opinion. My thoughts on him being average ARE based on the general player skill level, which I think should be the benchmark for his abilities anyway. I'm pretty confident that in order to compete with players who are more than average skilled, you need to bring much more to the plate than you would if you played another character. To further that point, some characters have easily mimicked playstyles, and tactics. A lot of people can improve their offense, safe approaches, and general ability just by watching tournaments and picking things up. This means that outside of defense and making good decisions that won't get you punished, some pro player opinions on characters will get you far. With Azrael, you're pretty much on your own. Everything is laid out there for you, but you need to actually become a better player (not just imitate a better player) if you're going to succeed at higher levels. Not that it isn't entirely true for every character... But it's definitely not as much of an issue that will plateau you, as much as it is on Azrael. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThatHiroGuy Report post Posted February 23, 2014 Hornet change is to try to put a stop to 2x weakpoint combos. I can pretty much guarantee that. The sentinel change is nice. Dash > TK Dump will be usable now although idk how useful that will be. D moves being special cancelable must have been what they were talking about before with D cancels. Nice of them to make OD 5D/6D > 236D not height dependent. Sounds like all good stuff for Azrael. It's already possible to dash cancel Sentinel Dump. I can't really explain how it works because it's really difficult and inconsistent, but I've caught it on video. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Verimeloni Report post Posted February 23, 2014 It's already possible to dash cancel Sentinel Dump. I can't really explain how it works because it's really difficult and inconsistent, but I've caught it on video.It's a big deal because it is so inconsistent due to the game's coding to prefer quarter-circle motions over DPs. As TheArm05 said Dash > TK Dump becomes "usable" after the patch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Putin Report post Posted February 23, 2014 I've been wondering why people often type "TK Dump". It's not an aerial move to Tiger Knee it, so what gives? Excuse my ignorance, I don't really play this character even though I want to eventually Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RifleAvenger Report post Posted February 23, 2014 I've been wondering why people often type "TK Dump". It's not an aerial move to Tiger Knee it, so what gives? Excuse my ignorance, I don't really play this character even though I want to eventually Azrael can cancel his forward dash into a jump, producing a jump with some additional forward momentum. One thing this allows is that if you tiger-knee input a ground-based special during his forward dash, he will cancel his dash into that special instead of jumping. This has some good uses, like extending the range of Gustaf to pretty much fullscreen, or allowing cross-through, TK cancel into Gustaf or Tiger (which can stuff certain attempts to mash on his cross-ups). Once the patch hits, this will be practical to do with Sentinel Dump too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
felirx Report post Posted February 23, 2014 You can jump cancel forward dash. This leads to being able to jump cancel into a grounded special because of the way the game works. This enables stuff like forward dash TK gustaf, which is several frames faster than just doing a forward dash, recovering and inputting gustaf. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Putin Report post Posted February 23, 2014 I thought that his dash was special cancellable, I wasn't aware that there was a specific technique into it. In other words, cross-through > Gustaf isn't less mashable than cross-through > 5A unless you input it as 2369A? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
natearistata Report post Posted February 23, 2014 More mashable since it's slower than 5A, but yeah, without the jump cancel in there it will take longer for Azrael to recover and be able to do a normal special move, giving more time to be countered. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LegendaryRath Report post Posted February 24, 2014 Watching Dogura in Mixup Night #17 has me inspired. I just wish I could be inspired some time that wasn't the middle of the night. Also, good shit Kinkuli for almost beating Galileo. Was on the edge of my seat the whole time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ArDLeon Report post Posted February 24, 2014 You guys got any tips for landing the IAD after a TCL? I've been trying to find the window to IAD and hit j.5A to avail. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ArDLeon Report post Posted February 24, 2014 it's the 5B > 2C > 6D > 66 > 5B > TCL > IAD > j.5a,j.5b > 5B > ARIEL combo btw Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Verimeloni Report post Posted February 24, 2014 It's opponent-spesific. -Midscreen TCL>airdash JAJB>5B>Aerial Combos Point blank 5A or 5B on launched opponent>TCL(fast as possible)>airdash JAJB Examples: 3C>Dump>5B>TCL(fastest)>airdash JAJB , 6D>5B>TCL(fastest)>airdash JAJB , etc. Works on: Bang, Valk, Amane, Relius, Ragna, Platinum, Izayoi -On Ragna and Valk, JA needs to be delayed. On Relius, JA is as fast as possible. The last hit of TCL will whiff if 5A/5B hit too high. It works up to a pretty decent height though, and is fairly easy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ArDLeon Report post Posted February 24, 2014 NO WONDER. Thanks dood, the guy I usually play with uses Kagura and I can RARELY land it against him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kinkuli Report post Posted February 24, 2014 Watching Dogura in Mixup Night #17 has me inspired. I just wish I could be inspired some time that wasn't the middle of the night. Also, good shit Kinkuli for almost beating Galileo. Was on the edge of my seat the whole time. Thanks! My hands were shaking quite a bit after the set. I derped real hard few times in the sets but yeah. Next time i'll have his head! The sets against the arakune/jin player were bit funny tbh. I did worse against his kune than i should have, even if i won.. Also the patch can't come soon enough..i did multiple correct reads on rachel player i played next with growler and ended either punished or back in pressure ;(. Bit sad i couldn't talk to dogura during the event but i tweeted him and he invited me to the next MUN! He also wanted to play sets i think :3. All in all had fun even if i dropped out pretty fast. That galileo set was probably the current highlight of my whole career haha. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheArm05 Report post Posted February 24, 2014 I am going to have to check out this Mixup Night footage. I need some Azrael inspiration myself :P The best/fastest TK crossup is easily dash through TK Phalanx. It is hard to combo off of unless you blast them directly into the corner but it is blindingly fast and BHS can always followup if you just need ~3k for a finish. ofc you need a phalanx stock so it is only situational but if you need just a little to end a round this is Azraels best mixup imo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LegendaryRath Report post Posted February 24, 2014 Cross-through TK Phalanx can be followed up with gustaf for about 1600 iirc. On most opponents, you can Rapid gustaf and continue the combo with 5B > j.B > j.C > dj.D > stuff. I don't really do this very much, but it's an option. Phalanx stocks are the best things in the world. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zankoku Report post Posted February 25, 2014 Other than UW 5B (~B) ODC 2C 6D Valiant etc., are there other practical OD setups that see much use in regular play? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kinkuli Report post Posted February 25, 2014 I think there are some routes from jD ODC jC etc. You should find those on combo thread but i haven't seen a lot of them in JP matches though. One thing you can always do is do the Valiant combo without activating OD and after 3C or 6A to OD activation to scud. If you have low enough health you can do pretty damaging combo if opponent makes a wrong read. Be ready to bait DPs though. People like to mash DP in those situations usually. Apart from those, no imo. Dogura used 5A 5B ODC at mixup night but that's more or less the same as 5B 5BB to ODC. I think i saw him do OD once whole mixup night. Having that burst is just so valuable when you are fighting kokos, taos and valks all day =/. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zankoku Report post Posted February 25, 2014 Yeah, hilariously enough I think he got that exact setup in his old FT10 with Tsujikawa as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Verimeloni Report post Posted February 28, 2014 Has there been any hints from JP players who have played the patched version if Azrael's character-spesific combo pathways have been fixed? Like does airborne TC > Valiant work on Litchi & co. in the patch or airborne TCL > IAD j.A on characters other than the ones listed in the combo thread? Kinkuli-chan? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kinkuli Report post Posted March 1, 2014 Has there been any hints from JP players who have played the patched version if Azrael's character-spesific combo pathways have been fixed? Like does airborne TC > Valiant work on Litchi & co. in the patch or airborne TCL > IAD j.A on characters other than the ones listed in the combo thread? Kinkuli-chan? Nope. I don't think there were any notable azrael players attending jaepo so nothings been tested i believe. Gotto wait for the patch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Verimeloni Report post Posted March 2, 2014 Nope. I don't think there were any notable azrael players attending jaepo so nothings been tested i believe. Gotto wait for the patch. :I I'm going to put a couple of examples in to the cmv so, yeah. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
natearistata Report post Posted March 11, 2014 Wow. I was legitimately expecting the worst with Azrael's backdash due to Tager's getting hit so hard the nerfbat, but he just got the somewhat universal extended duration by 2 frames. Very interesting. Very excited for patch, if only because I'll be able to actually use hornet and not worry about whiffing my hit by a pixel every time :D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bakahyl Report post Posted March 11, 2014 2 frames extended without having more invincibility is a minor nerf, eventhough his backdash is not that much nerfed compared to Tager's Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
