[CP] Azrael - Gameplay Discussion v.2 (Discuss Videos/Combos/Questions/etc.)

[LegendaryRath]

At the end of the day, I'm mostly just glad that Azrael looks a little different. Finding new things is my favorite thing.

[Verimeloni]

Does the Valiant change mean no more mid-Valiant Hornets?

[Warhound]

Does the Valiant change mean no more mid-Valiant Hornets?

 

I don't remember seeing a change for Valiant, did I miss something?

 

 

At the end of the day, I'm mostly just glad that Azrael looks a little different. Finding new things is my favorite thing.

 

I'm just kind of surprised that they haven't gone nuts with his nerfs, as this is the 1st loketest. Hakumen is receiving some big ass changes, and not all of them...remotely any good. I'd almost be happy if these were the final changes for Az, though. I mean, whatever gets people to stop hating on Az...but that's probably never going to even 20% going to happen.

[Kinkuli]

I do believe they changed that air moves now wallstick during valiant combos. I only saw one guy try it out once and it looked different. He could have fucked up of course so can't really say for sure.  Hard to remember to test everything with limited time haha ^^.

 

And yeah i'm kinda glad too that azrael is changing. New stuff is always cool. The jD/j2D change might even not be bad since gustaf leaves you closer now. It's kinda free if they don't have reversal.

[RentalBlackout]

The Growler change gave me a thought about how in certain matchups it can be a really interesting tool. Anything with projectile property will be absorbed, so I'm thinking, maybe in certain matchups like Jin's for instance, if you feel a 5D is coming, you can absorb it and 236B>(Dash TK)236A>RC>TCL... to punish. Maybe not the best example but like Noel has tons of projectile properties in her moves and even things like Kokonoe 5C has them.

However if you hit them with Growler then I don't suppose you can really combo for much, but hey, you're still out of pressure now. Pretty ballsy thing to do I guess, to call out Kokonoe 5C, so I doubt it'll be done much but it's still an option. Probably only limited to hard read situations.

[Koopa_Klawz]

I was thinking about what would happen if you did that on Ragna's Dead Spike. Is there anything Ragna could do to avoid Phalanx?

[LegendaryRath]

I wonder how fast we can cancel into phalanx after absorbing something. Phalanx is ridiculously fast already, so if we can cancel immediately it would be possible to punish many projectiles. Can't wait to see this for myself.

[Warhound]

Shouldn't hurt our defense against projectile oki, so I can at least be happy about that. I do hope this change sticks, being able to just take a projectile and immediately spit one back out sounds epic.

[Verimeloni]

I'm still fearful that the absorbing invincibility won't start at frame 1, so if Makoto does her projectile oki -> Growler -> Makoto 5B meaties your Growler and gets a CH combo. That's just an example, but yeah.

[Warhound]

I'm gonna have some faith that they reserve their dumbassery for Hakumen and his changes.


"EEEEH yeah! Just ehhh make Hakumen's 6D useless but let him hold it for a long ass time. What? Oh yeah, sure, 1F activation on Growler, fine whatever."

[Kinkuli]

I wonder how fast we can cancel into phalanx after absorbing something. Phalanx is ridiculously fast already, so if we can cancel immediately it would be possible to punish many projectiles. Can't wait to see this for myself.

 

 I tried it out and could cancel into phalanx as soon as absorb happened. This might change though, but currently it's like this.

 

In ragna's case, he would probably be fucked unless he can RC absorbed dead spike. 

 

As for start up. It felt really REALLY fast. It was definately faster than the current startup. Can't really say if he starts absorbing from frame one though.....

[Zeron_X25]

it really kills my motivation to use complex characters that require heavy execution and timing in their combos when you can just simply mash your a** off with Azrael. That's probably why they use him so much, he's completely immune to lag.

 

Ladies and gentlemen I bring you Gamefaqs.

 

Anyway, I had a question about how Valient Charger works right now. Can anyone tell me why I sometimes get less dashes to work with? I've tried doing combes involving valient crush into charger followup like this: 5C -> 6C -> jC -> 6B -> sentinel dump but it never lets me continue valient charger after 6B. I'm really confused how it works. I just go for the typical 5C*N right now cause I can't get this working

[RentalBlackout]

Ladies and gentlemen I bring you Gamefaqs.

 

Anyway, I had a question about how Valient Charger works right now. Can anyone tell me why I sometimes get less dashes to work with? I've tried doing combes involving valient crush into charger followup like this: 5C -> 6C -> jC -> 6B -> sentinel dump but it never lets me continue valient charger after 6B. I'm really confused how it works. I just go for the typical 5C*N right now cause I can't get this working

Lol.

For your question, if memory serves me right Valiant Charger is timer based, so you might have to do the whole thing a little bit faster perhaps(especially 6*6C>6*j.C)? Another thing that could be possible is that you've mistimed the 6 after 6B before doing Sentinel Dump, maybe you're doing it too early or too late.

There is the alternative of using 5B>Sentinel Dump instead, which is a special cancel so it doesn't depend on the Valiant Charger timer though you do lose out on a little damage. You also have to mind how high your opponent is when you hit Valiant Crash, if they're too high up while wall sticking in the corner 6*6B>6*3214C would whiff pretty often.

 

Pretty sure it's either one of the two. Just grind it out and pretty sure you'll get it in no time, ez.

[Warhound]

it really kills my motivation to use complex characters that require heavy execution and timing in their combos when you can just simply mash your a** off with Azrael. That's probably why they use him so much, he's completely immune to lag.

As I said, it usually just stems from people being too lazy or too stupid to actually research Azrael's flaws and shortcomings. It's just easier for them to say "WAAH! HE'S SO S-TIER DESU! NERF HIM! HIS BACKDASHES R SO BROKEN!!11!"

I mean, I hate fighting Litchi and Noel and stuff (not that I get the chance to these days) but you just find someone who's good, grind like hell, research, and come back with some better knowledge to wreck them.

As for your Valiant combo question, I never run into this problem I guess, mostly because I just leave out the first 5C. I think it really just comes down to getting that rhythm down and pumping those inputs out quickly before the Valiant charger effect "ends". I say, if you're close enough, you can just omit the first 5C. You lose a little bit of damage but, I think it's worth it if you can land it reliably every time.

[Zeron_X25]

Thanks guys. I didn't know it had an overall time limit like that. 

[LegendaryRath]

Warhound, I edited out some of the language from your post. Keep it PG.

Also guys, please try to just ignore stupid ranting and maybe gamefaqs in general. It doesn't contribute anything so it's best to just leave it out of this thread.

[Vgundam29]

How do you get the j.BC, JC.d, RC, j.c to connect. I can't do it consistently. (Outside of corner) corner is ez mode.

Also on the new tcl wall stick. I think they are either trying to get rid of tcl>bhs (could possibly see this as this is huge DMG with little effort ,steals games from simple confirms), or trying to make it easier to connect. Who knows till its set in stone. So far though they have been pretty lax with azreal.

[Warhound]

Warhound, I edited out some of the language from your post. Keep it PG.

 

Sounds like we got a square in here.

 

j.BC, JC.d, RC, j.c?

 

I'm confused, did I miss something or is my terminology not as on point as I thought?

 

I assume we are talking about his aerial combo where instead of just ending it with j.D you rapid cancel and a catch the opponent with a falling j.C? yeah, I was asking about this some time ago actually. It's a distance thing. If you connect with j.D while being so close to the opponent in the air, j.D won't connect. Most of the time, in order to compensate you have to delay j.D so you can allow the opponent to sail up a little higher from the initial j.C. It's sort of a snap judgment thing when you decide whether or not to delay it.

 

So launch j.B > j.C > jump cancel > delay a little bit (and I mean like a fraction of a second) > j.D > RC > j.C

 

Remember that this isn't always necessary if you see that they are already higher than you. I haven't tested it, but if you do a super jump and go into j.A > j.B > j.C > jump cancel > j.D > RC > falling j.C, that might be a way to cheat the timing out of the combo. Again, haven't really tried it, so it may not be reliable....or applicable. I dunno, give it a shot. Hope that helped.

[Kinkuli]

Also on the new tcl wall stick. I think they are either trying to get rid of tcl>bhs

 TCL to BHS worked like always. If anything now you can just TCL 5B BHS in corner whenever. Earlier you could only do it from specific ranges. So yeah they are probably making it easier to connect in corner.  Corner in general should be more intereting. I wanna lab crossup TCL stuff soooooo baaaaad. Not needing meter to followup in corner sounds sooooo gooood.

 

For the jD RC combo route you need to delay the jD till you stop ascending from the jc after jump canceling jC like warhound said. You also need to do the jC after RC instantly.

 

The timing is kinda annoying in the beginning but once you get it down you can do it from almost every confirm. Just keep at it! You can also try the jD RC jB route which should be easier. Though personally i found the jC RC jD easier once i got the timing down.

[zankoku]

Hey, you mentioned 5B > 2C > 2B no longer worked in corner, but did 5B > 2C > 5B? If so that could be the new route for meterless phalanx-less corner Valiant conversion.

[Vgundam29]

Actually can 2c>(x) be used anymore. Said the recovery time was greatly increased

[Verimeloni]

Actually can 2c>(x) be used anymore. Said the recovery time was greatly increased

 

->

 

2C got hit HAAAAAAAARD. Can't combo with 2C 2B anymore in corner. Still goes easily to 6D/3D. Might be a lot worse as an AA (can't just throw it out like you can now maybe?) Also can't 2C 2C 2C in corner ;(. 

[natearistata]

Yeah, since 2C > 3/6D are cancels, those will continue working the same way. But 2C > anything else was a link, so none of those'll likely work anymore. Or if they do, you'll have to hit an already airborn opponent with 2C so they have longer to fall. It's more likely that 5B will work, since it's faster than 2B, just depends on how much recovery was added.

[Kinkuli]

After spending sometime thinking about the new jD blowback, i think it might not be that bad. 

 

Basically you end up at range where if you dash forward after jD ender midscreen, you should end up in 5B range or very near to it. SO this would mean opponent has few options: forward roll, back roll, instant tech or delayd tech. 

 

Forward roll might not be a problem since if they roll forward, they end up right in your feet after the dash. Backroll can probably be dealed with tk gustaf on reaction. Quick rise and instant tech are more harder to deal with probably. What is a bit of a question mark atm is can you still meaty after the dash. I am willing to bet that no so you would probably need to tk cancel to gustaf to beat out mashing. 

 

Only thing this would mean that you have to guess more after jD which is ofc a nerf but not necessarily as bad it would seem at start. Eager to see how people deal with this change. 

[RentalBlackout]

Is it still possible to do a safe jump? I think as long as we can do that it's not too horrible. Maybe we can meaty as well with dash jump j.B or something. I'm not sure how much time we have after a j.D ender before they get up however so this may just be irrelevant(or whether or not we even reach them with dash jump). Maybe dash high jump? That might take too much time though. Dash IAD might be unsafe.