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Psykotik

[CP] Carl vs Kokonoe

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Although I can't really do a good writeup for this matchup since I'm still in the process of learning it, I can post some disjointed notes about the m-u. This is definitely not one of Carl's better matchups so we'll need every bit of knowledge we have to have a chance of beating her. Feel free to contribute more to the thread

 

- Super ball punishes: http://youtu.be/icrOGBtg5ek

- We can vivace to escape black hole setups. Black hole punish: http://youtu.be/Juvb6rS3Yj4

- One important thing to remember when punishing blackhole is to not jump as you'll end up being pulled towards the black hole. Just backdashing is enough to get away from the hold.

- Challenging her air-to-air is usually not the best idea. Not only are her air buttons better than ours, the reward off her air buttons is (usually) greater than ours 

- Try to keep the doll near Kokonoe to punish ground graviton/traps (46D) or air gravtions/fireball (Brio)

- Use Vivace to maneuver around traps + fireball in neutral. Watch out Kokonoe baiting the rolls though

- Her 5C has projectile properties so it can be rolled w/236A. If you IB a preceding move and then Vivace it, you might not get a punish but you'll usually end up in frame advantage

- Our best answer to her oki is wakeup OD + 46D as she cannot do anything about it other than jump away

- If she's knocked down and doesn't have meter, don't be afraid to meaty her. The best she can do is block or teleport and the teleport can be easily punished with the right OS

- If she does a freeze + 22B setup, 236AB away from the corner works as an anti-crossup OS; if she goes between you and the corner, you'll get 214AB (high barrier), if she teleports out of the corner, you get B Vivace and roll away from the corner. Kokonoe can still easily beat this with a low but it's still nice to have something that'll beat 3-4 of her mixup options

- You can use Ada as a meatshield to take the hits from fireball and super ball

 

Will post more later, zzz

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- We can vivace to escape black hole setups. Black hole punish: http://youtu.be/Juvb6rS3Yj4

 

Doesn't seem to work against OD blackhole setups, the pull is too strong and will keep you in front of Koko.

 

Which is kind of lame, but oh well. Koko is Koko.

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Yeah, we can't do anything against OD blackhole which sucks :<

Gear doesn't have 1f invul anymore so it won't work against a meaty blackhole. I haven't tried punch super but since it doesn't have 1f invul and the super doesn't come out until a few frames or so, I assume it won't work either.

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Does the OD black hole setup actually meaty you? I think there's a few frames where you move and do shit before it hits you, at least with the setup my friend always does on me.

I just think it would be a really funny way to escape Black Hole setup.

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The setup this koko does on me is stuff > 236B > 5C > OD > Black hole. it definitely hits meaty.

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The setup this koko does on me is stuff > 236B > 5C > OD > Black hole. it definitely hits meaty

The blackhole is a meaty, but that does not effect anyone. If meaties could stop invincibility then DP's wouldnt be as effective in fighting games as they are. When a meaty is done you can still wake up and DP because the invincibility is active on the first frame your character is able to be hit. Therefor, even if blackhole is a meaty the invincibility from vivace will still escape it. It is tight, but it is doable. 

~Shiro

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Vivace only works against regular blackhole. OD blackhole suction is much stronger and will prevent Carl from getting out of the corner.

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He did say OD, my mistake. Even if you do time it right, psycotic is correct in that it will still pull you. In order to escape the OD setup Ada must be in the corner with you... Either behind Kokonoe, or on top of you.

WNCO~Tech+6D>Vivace
WCON~Fucco while KD>Tech>Vivace

You can teleport Ada in to escape the BH setup.. But its much more tight.

WCO~22D while on KD>delay Tech>OD>Ada walk 6>Vivace
Ada will walk you right out of range. 

-Shiro

 

-Edit

If you find yourself needing a few more frames then you can OD directly after the tech. 

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Nice find Shiro. The teleport escape is definitely not easy but it could be a real lifesaver.

Something odd actually happened during one of my attempts: I was trying to do the teleport method and did delayed quick rise instead of delayed neutral tech and ODed immediately after the tech. Most of the time, I got OD but during one of my attempts, I somehow got a wakeup green burst, which bursted Koko out of the black hole. I tried to replicate this in training mode but couldn't get it a second time.

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the good thing about that is, you can't say it is not a viable option.. because it is literally your ONLY option. if you can get it down at least some of the time.. some of the time you live.

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Nice find Shiro. The teleport escape is definitely not easy but it could be a real lifesaver.

Something odd actually happened during one of my attempts: I was trying to do the teleport method and did delayed quick rise instead of delayed neutral tech and ODed immediately after the tech. Most of the time, I got OD but during one of my attempts, I somehow got a wakeup green burst, which bursted Koko out of the black hole. I tried to replicate this in training mode but couldn't get it a second time.

 

Considering the fact that having Ada behind the opponent, while in WCO formation, is standard, using Fucco while down then tech into Vicace shouldnt be to far off from 100% escape. 

I thought I would give this *Twitch* share thing a try, usually Id just hord the tech and call everyone free............ Free. 

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