Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Moy_X7

[CP] Jin vs Kokonoe

Recommended Posts

Match Start



Neutral

Full Screen
Long-Mid Range
Point Blank


Offense and Defense

Your Offense vs Her Defense
Her Offense vs Your Defense


Gimmicks and Miscellaneous Info

Gimmicks
Misc. Info


Frame Advantage, Disadvantage, and Punishes

Frame Advantage
Frame Disadvantage
Punishes


Summary

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kokonoe's 2A low profiles Jin's 5B, making it whiff completely. Because of this people shouldn't be too reliant on using 5B when applying pressure unless you are going to gattling into it via 2A or 2B. 5B pressure resets shouldn't be used, especially against Kokonoe.

Might wanna avoid using 5B as a pressure starter to catch Kokonoe on block if she is about a character space away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yes, like tao you don't wanna use 5B when you reset pressure, or as a starter or you'll get smacked in the ankles.

Kokonoe is definitely a character to watch out for right now, so if anyone has had a lot of EXP with this MU, the rest of us could use your knowledge lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have a wide range of exp with her, but I can jot down what I've done so far, maybe some patterns or similarities will pop up that can be of actual use.

I'll even use, Moy's template.

Match Start

The ones I've fought will start up a round with either air dash back > Graviton, 5c or 3c, I say jump forward and be on the look out, then act (or react) depending on what she does.

If I see 5c or 3c, I'm gonna come down with a j.2c, I've gotten better results than j.b. 5c will recover in time for her to block it, but at least she's on the defensive. 3c will leave her open to a crouch confirm combo for a good 3k-ish + oki.

Obviously, chase her down if she air dashes back.

Neutral

Full Screen

I hate being fullscreen vs Kokonoe, personally, I'd avoid it at all costs, fullscreen is pretty much begging to get set up on with graviton, fireball, teleport for free approach and pressure. I've never done it, but I theory-craft that Touga Hiyoujin (632146c) can blow her up for trying anything, so theoretically you could stay fullscreen to lure her into a false sense of security when you have 50 meter, probably good for closing a round after she burst or in low health situations.

Fullscreen also sucks because she can set her B pillar and just sit there, preventing any real approach, you can play it safe and trigger it without running in, but that leaves you at a disadvantage, because you're technically on the defensive, which gives Kokonoe room to do her own gimmicks. 3c can pull you into the pillar and that's a combo, she can air throw you while you're trying to move around, etc. I really don't recommend fullscreen distance.

Long-Mid Range

This is favorable imo. Jin has every tool to pose a threat at this range, provided a graviton isn't already out. If one is, you're going to be either chasing her while she runs/teleports/activates graviton/outspaces you because of lol graviton or avoiding her while she's doing the same. If one isn't out, then I think Jin actually has a small advantage here. Save for a few pokes, she has to be in your face to do anything, and I've been able to punish her should she set a graviton at this range. My main strategy is to simply play it safe, react before being proactive, because let's face it, her buttons are better than Jins. 2a/2b as previously mentioned can and will low profile 5b, and her 2a can hit Jin out of his 6b if the timing is advantageous for her. So I play it safe, I really try to approach from the air if I think she's going to attack on the ground, I feel Jin has enough options in the air to manage her pressure better while not getting 6a'd for free. If I feel a 6a coming, I'll either air Hishouken, spaced j.c or just respect it outright with a falling barrier block. I'll only hishouken if I think she's going to run up and 6a, she'll get punished for it. I'll j.c if I'm on the offensive and think she won't run up, but do a stationary 6a, because the player thinks I'm jumping in. The j.c will whiff and Jin will recover sooner than Kokonoe will. I'll barrier block if I'm not sure. Kokonoe also likes to j.2c at this range. I'll either Fubuki it if it's spaced badly, or I'll jump back j.c, the latter is much much more reliable.

Point Blank

Point Blank I play similar to Mid-range, but with less running around, so :v:

However I do keep an eye out for her teleport. If you yomi it, free 5c CH punish. Tick throws are also good, in addition to the classic throw bait 6b CH. If Kokonoe tries to j.2c here, I'll air throw her.

Offense and Defense

Your Offense vs Her Defense

Fun, but frustrating. Jin always has good pressure, so once I'm actually on the offensive, I'm fine. I do the usual Jin pressure+staggers, just look out for those teleports and those amazing normals of hers. Also if she has a graviton out, I try to be creative, I try to go for a tick throw (which is really difficult) or just try super hard to stay in her face. There isn't much I feel like I can do here if a graviton is already out.

Her Offense vs Your Defense

I try to avoid this at all costs, but it isn't too bad, much like the vise versa, it all depends if graviton is out or not. If it isn't it's not too bad, her strings don't last forever--even if they feel like they do. I feel like once you figure out her gatling table, it's simple, her only lows are 2a, 2b and 3c, and she can't reverse gatling from 3c. If you IB 5c, you can dp out. The only hook is to look out for 6b, which she can throw in anywhere in her string before 3c (Thanks ASW), but as long as I keep track of where she throws in her lows, I don't have too big a problem looking out it. If she tries to cancel into graviton anywhere, she is unsafe. Of course this is without graviton out. With it activated there's one more problem, since most of her normals are jc-able on block she has Instant Overhead j.c > activate graviton. It's a matter of yomi + knowing her Jump cancels, oftentimes it's obvious since 3c would whiff point blank, it's just a matter of when she does it, since every standing normal except for 6b goes is jc-able on block. It may not come to much consolation, but since graviton activation is a combo staple with smp and she's forced to use it early in the combo, she won't get too much damage off of this without meter.

Gimmicks and Miscellaneous Info

Gimmicks

236236x is her reversal, she's barely in CH state, there's virtually 0 recovery, and the fireball is guaranteed to come out, punishing this move, should you even choose to, counts as a gimmick.

Anything into d ice car should steer you away from the fireball coming down (midscreen), you also have throw bait 6b, throw, jump around her, whatever you choose to do, make damn sure you;

a - decide quick

b - do something that prevents Kokonoe from setting a Graviton down freely, this super fireball becomes a nightmare if you let her set a graviton, otherwise it will fall to the ground and disappear.

If she's in the corner, I can't think of a viable answer.

Misc. Info

nerf pls

Frame Advantage, Disadvantage, and Punishes

Frame Advantage

Most of her attacks are safe due to having gatlings up the butt or free jump cancels, I wouldn't rely to much on punishing her on block, so I aim to make her whiff things.

Frame Disadvantage

IB 5c and you can dp, it's jc-able though soooo.........

Punishes

Most things on whiff. j.2c/5b

Mid/close-range graviton set. (air) Fubuki/airthrow/j.c (ground) 5b/5c/2d/ice car

Mid/close-range fireball. (air) Fubuki/airthrow/j.c (ground) 5b/5c/2d/ice car

Teleport recovery. 5c CH > 6c/5b (1) CH > 6c

Fireball Super (if timed perfectly) (:v:)

Summary

In my experience, this MU is an uphill battle until you knock her down, then you have to make some bold decisions and commit to most of them, which doesn't seem too bad until you realize that Kokonoe can run your shit down for free if you give her an inch of air and has to commit to nothing ever. Factor in the clear difference in damage output, mix-up options, oki and her unblockable and I'm feeling a solid 6-4 in Kokonoe's favor, which imo is "it sucks, but you have options given the right circumstances".

Compare to 7-3 "Almost total helplessness" and 5-5 "Just be better than your opponent"

She's one of those characters who sit with Azrael and Valkenhayn where (tl:dr ver. -->) if you don't have good neutral, this character will eat you alive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×