[CP] Izayoi vs Tager

[Velvien]

Discuss the Tager matchup here.

Pros

Cons

Details

Ratio

[crimsonstardust]

Pros

Have to tools to keep him out

-fire balls

-anti air specials

-236B/C

-command movements

-5B

Can bait reversal attempts

Tagar has limited movement options

Have the tools to blow up sledge hammer

Cons

Really hard to get off once he's in

Magnetism limits your GA movements

You need 50 meter to get this guy off you

Spark ball steam rolls all fireballs

Spark ball is also good at swatting you in GA dashes

Alright this is fairly a tough match but I think she goes even with Tagar. The opening gambit your at a slight advantage cause your normals out range his, well more like 5B really. Once your at full screen it's easier to play that fireball anti air game, though you have to be careful at this range cause one properly aimed spark ball will make you wish you were careful. Often you will see a Tagar attempt to get closer with sledge hammers, if they are trying to do this you can blow it up with 236C, using the B version is a little riskier cause its a little slower but it will net you a counter hit combo. I suggest also to not be afraid to rush Tagar down, command grabs are scary but he only has that opening if you give it to him. During your block strings if you know your opponent is backdash happy during block strings a delayed 6C from either mode will catch him. He's easy to fuzzy guard against with jB so add that to your list of things to do.

Now when your magnetized this is where the match can dip, Tagar's pressure is pretty annoying to deal with, and you have to keep your eyes extra peeled cause he might sneak a command throw in. A common one is after his 6A to do a delayed command throw so it doesn't come out as a pink throw. Another set up Tagar has during a gadget finger he can make it whiff and get a safe jump cross up on you.

In the case you are magnitized and are full to mid screen be very careful with your spacing, if he pulls you in with 6A don't challenge it during the active frames cause it had a guard point. If you find yourself dashing during GA mode and he tries to pull you in with a command throw, using jB on reaction will stop the attempt, your probably could mash jA also. In some cases might try to be tricky and pull you in with a command throw but if your spacing is right you can poke him with just about any quick move.

When you get Gadget Fingered

Basically I would suggest not to get gadget fingered in general, it just sets up all sorts of nasty mix ups and you will play the guessing game. You can try to mash 5A against some of the stuff but not recommended either, if you do it without though you can get caught by a backdash A buster, though if you do see it you can respond with something like 236B/C and try and score a counter hit if he attempts to pull you in with a buster. If he reads you trying to jump or backdash away while you are in GA mode, 6A, atomic colider and Air buster will beat those out, but if you mash jA while you jump, you can beat an air buster and colider, but you will not beat 6A cause that has armor against high and mid attacks. A lot of it is gonna be conditioning you not to press buttons, this can be a weird spot to be in at times cause some options beat mashing, and some lose to mashing against gadget finger oki. All I can say is if you do get in those situations you gonna have to make some hard guesses. The safest tool to use might be Justice Phorizor, but this has some flaws too, if Tagar instant blocks it its a free punish, normally its safe to use but instant blocking it doesn't push him back and he can punish it with either 6A or Spark ball, spark ball can punish it without an instant block. If he back dashes correctly against it, its a free A buster or sparkball also. So like I said, try not to be in that situation.

One last note I would like to add is magna tech wheel the last hit is an overhead and has a guard point, it is a reversal but not a common one.

Well if anyone wants to chime in please do.

Edit: Fuzzy guarding info was wrong, info taken out.

[GrandAquila]

If you find yourself in Gain Art whipping away sonic saber at full screen if he tries to sledge his way closer to you 214d seems like a reliable way to get a free punish.

[crimsonstardust]

Well a smart Tager player will know the spacing on that move and will go through it with and hit you as well. Some might beat it out with sparkball if they have that ready.

[Justice7541]

GA backdash beats 5A after Gadget at least.  It should beat 6A too because of the distance you cover.  Overall one of your better options versus Gadget vortex but I think 5C (and maybe some other stuff) will punish it so don't get too predictable with it.

[GrandAquila]

So if you can bait the 6A what are his options or is that even safe? If he can't react would it be possible to dash in or 5b him during his recovery? If so in GA that could lead to full combo. Having more trouble with this match up than I think I should but his pressure is pretty relentless from my recent matches.

[crimsonstardust]

GA backdash beats 5A after Gadget at least.  It should beat 6A too because of the distance you cover.  Overall one of your better options versus Gadget vortex but I think 5C (and maybe some other stuff) will punish it so don't get too predictable with it.

 

No 6A will catch the GA backdash cause 6A can pull you in when your magnitized.

 

Basically I would suggest not to get gadget fingered in general, it just sets up all sorts of nasty mix ups and you will play the guessing game. You can try to mash 5A against some of the stuff but not recommended either, if you do it without though you can get caught by a backdash A buster, though if you do see it you can respond with something like 236B/C and try and score a counter hit if he attempts to pull you in with a buster. If he reads you trying to jump or backdash away while you are in GA mode, 6A, atomic colider and Air buster will beat those out, but if you mash jA while you jump, you can beat an air buster and colider, but you will not beat 6A cause that has armor against high and mid attacks. A lot of it is gonna be conditioning you not to press buttons, this can be a weird spot to be in at times cause some options beat mashing, and some lose to mashing against gadget finger oki. All I can say is if you do get in those situations you gonna have to make some hard guesses. The safest tool to use might be Justice Phorizor, but this has some flaws too, if Tagar instant blocks it its a free punish, normally its safe to use but instant blocking it doesn't push him back and he can punish it with either 6A or Spark ball, spark ball can punish it without an instant block, its also possible to him to backdash it and A buster you. So like I said, try not to be in that situation. 

 

EDIT: I'm gonna add this segment into the post I made earlier for easy reference. 

[Justice7541]

I was under the impression that holding back on GA Backdash would get you far back enough to escape 6A magnetism, at least with enough time to barrier. I could have been wrong about that I guess, I can't test it now

[Phibrizzo]

I'm trying to learn the Tager matchup. It seems like this is all about keep away. I have a good idea when the 720s and such are coming, I can break most throws i'm too noob to jump away from, the gadget finger combos destroy me. The majority of rounds or matches I win are the ones where I don't get magnetized. I can't seem to find any openins in his moves and most of his moves are safe from punishes at that point(at least to me anyway).

1) Are the gadget combos just "I hope you guess right"?

2) What are some good strategies for fighting when magnetized?

 

3) Are there any safe ways to open him up for combos with her normal mode?

[crimsonstardust]

I'm trying to learn the Tager matchup. It seems like this is all about keep away. I have a good idea when the 720s and such are coming, I can break most throws i'm too noob to jump away from, the gadget finger combos destroy me. The majority of rounds or matches I win are the ones where I don't get magnetized. I can't seem to find any openins in his moves and most of his moves are safe from punishes at that point(at least to me anyway).

1) Are the gadget combos just "I hope you guess right"?

2) What are some good strategies for fighting when magnetized?

 

3) Are there any safe ways to open him up for combos with her normal mode?

 

Well the bulk of what you seem to be having trouble with is something I addressed in the second post, but to answer the specifics, here we go. Their are holes in Tager's strings, you just gotta know them, like his 5C to 5D is not a true string, a lot of Tager's strings are actually not as safe as they seem but Tager usually has to take the risks to do so. 

 

1. Not quite sure what you mean by this, gadget finger okis are basically mix ups that Tager sets up, I covered this in the "when you get gadget fingered" section, just give that a quick read and ask some other questions you may have about it.

 

2. Well when you get magnitized it sucks, ideally if you do get maginitized, hopefully its cause you blocked a full screen spark ball, cause you can keep yourself safe by walking back or hoverdashing + mash jA cause if Tager tries to suck you in at least you can tap him out of it. Honestly the best advise I can give is try not to get magintized cause that's what Tager wants, if you do your gonna have to be aware his range basically increases.

 

3. Well 5B is your main tool for this match in normal mode, if you can't open Tager up probably would be best to force him to play footsies with you can Izayoi can out poke and anti air him pretty well. Gain arts mode is where your gonna try to open him up really, normal mode has ways to open people up but not safely, and against Tager you want to minimize your risks cause its not fun to deal with.  

[Justice7541]

I don't think any character has a 100% guaranteed escape from Gadget oki. The best you can do is force Tager to commit to less safe options to punish your wakeup option. Like we were just talking about before, GA backdash works to shut down 5A and throw so he has to 6A to punish. Once the Tager has been trained to not go straight to 5A/throw mixup off Gadget, you can start trying to guess when he's going to 6A and punish that, etc.

[Qpunch]

one if the cons in this matchup say that Tager is easy to fuzzy guard and was wondering if someone could tell me how that's done.

[StylisH]

This match up gives me migraines.......

[crimsonstardust]

Well here's something about this match I just learned, spark charge can block astral.

[Justice7541]

Looks like 6A doesn't work anymore against Izayoi's new, farther backdash? Didn't test extensively but it was working for me (as Izayoi) pretty consistently against the Tager I was playing against a few days ago. Corridor or air 360 might still work but I dunno, the guy I played against clearly had no idea what Izayoi does.

[crimsonstardust]

6A still catches GA backdash and normal backdash.

[Justice7541]

I guess he may need to hold it or something. I'll test when I have the time.

[crimsonstardust]

I forgot to mention it needs to be a magnitized 6A, its really going to depend how Tager does it though, no held 6A catches both regardless, and if you are GA and he holds it for quite awhile you'll end up slinging around him.

[Justice7541]

Pretty sure Gadget > non-hold 6A doesn't work even if magnetized, or you have to do it immediately. Either that or this guy was just doing it late every time.

Only one way to be sure.

[crimsonstardust]

I tested this, if its done immediately it will catch her off of a gadget finger. Outside of that its going to be spacing dependent.