[CP] Izayoi vs Valkenhayn

[Velvien]

Discuss the Valkenhayn matchup here.

Pros

Cons

Details

Ratio

[kazukifafner]

This matchup (along with Taokaka) is pure hell. I have never felt so helpless against a character. Wolf mixups are nuts; and even on the off-chance that I get away, his ability to throw himself around the screen has been proving surprisingly difficult to AA. The tendency to stay in the air makes it difficult to get hits in.

The only luck I've had (and this applies to Taokaka as well, though Valkenhayn may be the worse of the two) is to constantly move. The thinking is that, at the very least, it makes it harder for them to get a bead on you as well. Once your pinned down, you better pray to god you have some meter to burn or a burst handy.

Maybe there's some secret to dealing with this guy, but I have no clue what it is ;-;

EDIT: Oh, and keep that jA handy. A solid hit will knock them off their rhythm (again, applies to Tao as well).

[SonOfHeaven]

Having played a good valk last night. I have to agree this matchup is ridiculous. Really feels like the matchup is heavily in valk's favor. Its been a long time where I felt there wasn't much I could do. Would love to hear any tips from anyone here.

I advise to stay out of the corner at all cost and use 6a against valk's human overhead if you see it coming to create some space.

[abadlime]

Keep in mind i have probably seen only 2 and only 1 of them have i gotten a decent set out. Some things might be wrong so point them out if need be.

Pros:

-If he's in wolf form, you can probably poke with 5B or 236C.

-He has no real reversal outside of his guardpoint 6A and DD and i don't see many use 6A so catch him meterless and you can probably get him to block.

-His damage is lower this time around

-if you can start a phorizer while he is in wolf form, it will definitely hit

Cons:

-If he catches you blocking…good luck.

-Superior movement which will most likely make you block unless you can react to some of his tech.

-Wolf Command grab

-has easy corner carry

-I'm not sure how well his wolf AA works now since i tried my best to keep grounded, but I think it works really well still.

Details:

-Unless you dominate neutral and can keep him at bay, you are gonna be blocking whether you like it or not. I'm not sure how valk works so if anyone does, plz correct me for the sake of keeping this all fact. His blockstrings are hard to follow at first, but there is a pattern. Most likely, if he catches you in wolf form, he's dashing in and therefore an overhead. Block high twice because he has another wolf normal that is also an overhead. After that, feel free to block low unless he dashes in again. The main thing i look out for is after blocking low, sometimes they will go for another overhead, but it is much easier to react to. Barrier is your friend since it mostly forces him to dash in more and then you can probably react to some mix-up. If you barrier enough, you can probably find an opening to jump out or throw out something.

-His wolf movement has some weird invul. and angles sometimes so be careful going for 623B and 623Cs to catch him. They sometimes clashed as well at some points. Whiffing those is bad news and you are most likely to get hit.

-Try not to fight him in the air, especially when he is in wolf form. There is a lot of untechable time from when you get hit from a wolf j.a to follow into a 2-3k combo.

-

Ratio:

-Overall, this match up isn't impossible, but it's indeed hell for those not accustomed to blocking constantly. Just remember some tools you have can catch his wolf form and keep him blocking if you can.

4.0 - 6.0 his favor

[Tari]

If you start a Phorizer when he's in wolf form, he can probably just go into one of his backwards wolf dashes, which have invuln from frames 1-10. It's how he gets out of a lot of sticky situations as a wolf.

The general old suggestion for not dealing with wolf mixup was to chicken block, but it was never really the most useful advice. His mixup in wolf form isn't as insane in this game, so staying on the ground and blocking and barriering is somewhat more viable.

Haven't really played Valk in this game, so those points are more or less from what I got from the, like, one game I played in CP and from what I remember from CSE.

[abadlime]

If you start a Phorizer when he's in wolf form, he can probably just go into one of his backwards wolf dashes, which have invuln from frames 1-10. It's how he gets out of a lot of sticky situations as a wolf.

Doesn't Phorizer have a lot of active frames though that would overshadow his invuln? I'm not too familiar with izayoi's frame data, but in the case that it does, the invuln he has on the dashbacks would probably save him at max range. We shouldn't be throwing those at max range though unless you can seriously call them out.

[Tari]

Doesn't Phorizer have a lot of active frames though that would overshadow his invuln? I'm not too familiar with izayoi's frame data, but in the case that it does, the invuln he has on the dashbacks would probably save him at max range. We shouldn't be throwing those at max range though unless you can seriously call them out.

It does indeed have 9 active frames, so it is fairly hard for him to time the backdash. Depending on where he is, he can definitely just get out of range with those backwards wolf dashes, though, even if he doesn't bother timing the invuln.

[crimsonstardust]

Alright based on what I got from a match that wasn't 3bar (even though the game said it was) here are some of my findings for the match. 6A has some better utility in this match but still needs to be done kinda early, handy if you smell an overhead coming your way, gives you some space to breathe. Air sonic saber seems a bit double edged to use from what I saw, he can easily run under it as a wolf but it still can keep him in bay in the right places. Using jA seems to be a good way to keep him a little honest when he's zipping around as a wolf. Air D sonic saber makes a pretty decent temporary wall if you have the stocks to spare. I guess bottom line is try not to get cornered, cause man that just freaking sucks to be in... 

[Justice7541]

So uh, does Valk have any way to avoid Astral if you do it point blank on him while he's in wolf form? I was dialing in Astral on Wolfenhayn hard last weekend. I got like 4 random Astrals on three different Valk players.

[crimsonstardust]

Hmm that's an interesting question, I'm not familiar with what Valk can do during wolf form (aside from instant overhead head chews), I'll mess with it in the lab and see if that is something he has to respect.

[Dreize]

Should be able to w[7D] to get out of harm's way.

[Justice7541]

It was beating w7D since he was diving back into the Astral's active frames, unless Valk can change back into human form fast enough to block before he comes back into contact with Izayoi.

[Dreize]

He can technically do w[7D > 4C > j.44D] but he doesn't even need to since he can just input w[7D] during superflash and completely avoid it.

 

He should only get caught if he uses w[4D].