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[CP] Tager vs Relius: Sir you are too old to play with dolls.

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Jeez this thread is barren... I'll just give some tertiary knowledge on this.

 

This match up gets pretty annoying with Ignus backing up Relius. The only thing you can do is block until he runs out of Detonator meter. Be veeeeery careful when blocking as his mixup game is really good with Ignus around and will fill any holes he has in his combos with her. I'm no good at it, but IB-ing may prove useful to catch him off guard with 360B, but who knows. Most of his normals have poor range so having him magnetized should be top priority. Perhaps holding 360A could beat his spot dodge, where he to use it. 

 

Does no one play against any Relius players? 

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I do play against a Relius that has a pretty good understanding of the matchup.

 

You can always grab his spin dodge as it's completely vulnerable to throws, no need to hold it to get the recovery. He is only strike/projectile invincible I think.

 

Even though his range is not as great as Litchi's, his 5B and doll 6D are still faster and reach as far as our 5C, making it very hard to counter poke his approaches. If you try to jump over to make it whiff, it'll recover in time and you will either have to block an anti-air from his part, namely his 2C? and the doll 4D (the one where she crosses her arms in an upward thin drill attack that wallbounds in the corner.

 

When he gets 50 meter, what a Relius can do to make Tager's life terrible, is to put himself in the corner and wait. The moment you are too close to him, he'll start his doll rush super and you'll have to block it.

 

The matchup is pretty bad looking in my eyes. Block 5 to 6 times more than he has to, block everything, and make your pressure open him up at all cost. Even if the doll dies, he is still a very good character to defend himself against Tager.

 

At least our 5A is good enough to poke the doll from nearly every angle. Block or jump if you hit super armor, and enjoy tagging the doll the rest of the time to approach a couple steps.

 

protip : don't roll, his 'saw from the ground' special will always catch you and give him free dmg.

 

I'm throwing lots of infos without even trying to organize them, feel free to flame me if anything is absurdly wrong. More interactions is better in those matchup threads!

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Things to look out for during Relius pressure:

 

6A: Can be made safe on block with Ignis 2D (two-hitting move that vacuums). Best to 360A/720 him before it connects.

Unblockable oki setup: Saw+airdash j.C. Possible responses on wakeup (none tested, sorry):

MTW: Probably wins.

Backdash: Probably loses. The saw is active for 30 frames.

OD: Might win? Not sure.

If you see it coming: Try quick getup and jumping out.

If he does meaty 6A instead of j.C: Laugh and 720 him.

Rising j.C: Tager-specific mixup. Can turn into a combo if Ignis is out. Becomes a huge threat if you are stuck blocking the Ignis combo super.

 

i haven't played this matchup since extend oh god why am i even posting this

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By saw, do you mean the Yoyo saw(236d), or the attack in which Ignis turns into a huge saw(214a)?, the former is the unblockable setup, the latter beats rolls
While i don't remember any in particular, people have escaped my 236d in a number of ways in the rare times i use it, the one i use that sometimes works is jump and either barrier until you are safe, or throw
Escaping by jumping is so common that some Relius don't bother doing the j.c and instead throw you, or barrier expecting you to dp, air throwing works especially well in the second case

Also Relius has some very safe jump setups if Ignis is out, so you might want to think carefully before using your 360, i've beaten a few pro Tagers once by using his jump setups, but gotten bodied once they understood what i was doing

Edit:i see some other, more active Relius players reading this topic, hopefully they can provide better advice than i can

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Things to look out for during Relius pressure:

 

6A: Can be made safe on block with Ignis 2D (two-hitting move that vacuums). Best to 360A/720 him before it connects.

Unblockable oki setup: Saw+airdash j.C. Possible responses on wakeup (none tested, sorry):

MTW: Probably wins.

Backdash: Probably loses. The saw is active for 30 frames.

OD: Might win? Not sure.

If you see it coming: Try quick getup and jumping out.

If he does meaty 6A instead of j.C: Laugh and 720 him.

Rising j.C: Tager-specific mixup. Can turn into a combo if Ignis is out. Becomes a huge threat if you are stuck blocking the Ignis combo super.

 

i haven't played this matchup since extend oh god why am i even posting this

 

Relius player here.

 

6A can be made safe before and after with 6D. We will often try to sneak it under the radar without 6A to protect the start-up because 2 6Ds are expensive and we've got a lot of health to get trough here. look out for 6A after a falling air normal or 2/5B.

 

Magna Tech Wheel can win if we don't have 50% gauge to rapid j.C. Usually we do because we only spend that stuff on Rapids and counter assaults. 

 

Backdash doesn't win that situation. In fact backdash never wins when Ignis is out anymore. Period. Since the nerf happened it will occasionally just give Relius a 2700-3400 damage combo with an incredibly low Ignis cost, and that's just midscreen.

 

OD>720C might work. It hasn't been done to me in that situation. I feel like 236D might catch you before we touch the ground though, but I could be wrong.

 

We have airgrab for jump-outs. look for it if you do manage a jump, because it's coming.  I don't think quick wake-up gets people up in time for that though. If Ignis is too close to the corner you can roll past her though. (But with Tagers hitbox that might be a risk in itself.)

 

I feel like "falling j.C>rising j.C>j.2D" is better for addressing Tager. As a rule I generally use j.C or Ignis in my oki because Tager is a little handsy. As it stands falling j.C catches rolls, overheads, beats butter churning, lets us get a high damage 5B air hit if you backdash, and can beat Magna Tech Wheel if done low enough to the ground (We touch the ground and can block then punish.) If 6A is going in my oki it's assuredly going to be "3C ender>Tus>jump forward>j.C>6A>6D" or something along those lines.

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