[CP] Tager vs Izayoi: Meet bad Tsubaki

[A.X.I.S.]

She is like a bad P4U Aigis lol.

[Tae Seong Kim]

I was playing against a friend earlier and tried to Sledge through her super... I had a very bad time.

[A.X.I.S.]

You can VTC > hammer the super iirc.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

Don't ever Sledge her projectiles. That's exactly what she wants. It achieves nothing and leaves you wide open for the teleport follow-up. You can't safely Asledge her multi-hit version. You'll get caught by the follow-up hits. There are a couple of exceptions, mainly being her corner oki with the multi-hit Sonic Saber. If you tech and immediately Asledge you can CH her and the projectiles pop instantly as a result. You can also usually get away with Asledge if you react to a Sonic Saber during her pressure strings.

Just don't sledge the many sonic sabers she'll be throwing out fullscreen during neutral. She's capable of doing a fullscreen saber+teleport that requires you to block the projectile normally before blocking the cross-up. You cannot 360 or 720 her out of this.

Her oki in the corner that involves the multi-hit version of the Sonic Saber + instant overhead dash-ins in GA mode. It resets you if you don't tech and pressures you if you do. Teching quickly and Asledging can CH her out of this though I'm not sure if it's 100% reliable.

Difficult to 360 in this matchup. Her movement options take her off the ground really often. Try to counter her with normals instead. Her movement is somewhat vulnerable to 360C though when she's in GA mode.

Important: 720 loses to her reversal super, even if you use it second.

She has bad reversal options, abuse this. Pre-50 heat she's basically helpless on wakeup.

Here's 34 minutes of me and lime grinding this MU: http://www.twitch.tv/ctrlaltwtf/c/3168783

We're both basically new the MU at the start and you'll gradually see us both adapt as the session goes on, so it's a pretty good primer.

Random thought for a thread title: "You can't Sledge this Seigi!"

[Brice]

I played some time with level5 in this matchup and i feel it's a really lame matchup that is not in our favor at all. the saber super is really dumb because you can't really do something about it. i haven't tested backdashing it on reaction to see if anything can be done, pushes you out if you block it, not a projectile at all and i did get a 720 in against the super but it was super situational (the kind when he did it just before i was lanfing making me able to delay the 720 enough to start the invul frames right when it was about to hit me and got a successful 720. happened once by chance though...

the general matchup will go as follow (at least for now) : she'll throw sonic sabers all day for you to either block or sledge. the sad part is she still gets a charge when you sledge the projectile, not cool. you cannot jump in on her. it's impossible. her upward mist finer will blow you up for free, and she gets more charges. tager is also so tall that the upward mist finer will hit you standing while you are not even point blank on her... straight up mist finer is also very good against vertical jump ins.

like Ctrlaltwtf said, when she goes into i-no mode, blocking gets really hard because of the marvel like properties she gains. teleport behind your back while firing sonic sabers (upgraded or not) then choose to cross you up or not with the teleport... the only way i found in a hour was to neutral jump the sonic sabers and when you see her teleport you j.2C and it will hit her. i'm pretty sure they can just anti air for free or just block if they are not mashing 2A after the teleport.

to recap : you can't get in, need to avoid the projectiles and the mist finers (blocking it still givers her some stock!), and try to block her other stance where she can diagonal dash overhead you for free. haven't really dealt with her funnel super at neutral (the one where she gets two little flying thingies that hits when she presses buttons).

and when she gets 50 you better block and not press buttons uselessly because the saber super is scary fast. will try to find a way to beat it.

even though people say she's a bad tsubaki, the matchup is considerably harder for tager than regular tsubaki :/

oh yeah i forgot to say when you get spark bolt use it for only one purpose : sealing her ability to spam sonic sabers. CH her for free plz. don't let her do as she pleases

[Ctrlaltwtf]

I had most success just jA'ing over sonic sabers or super jump + barrier blocking. It is annoying though cuz there's really nothing you can actually "do" about them. Her corner saber oki seems to be reliably countered by quick sledge on tech though.

oh yeah i forgot to say when you get spark bolt use it for only one purpose : sealing her ability to spam sonic sabers. CH her for free plz. don't let her do as she pleases

What really sucks is that Spark Bolt can actually whiff on reaction because her teleport is that fast She can do it in the air too.

[abadlime]

What really sucks is that Spark Bolt can actually whiff on reaction because her teleport is that fast She can do it in the air too.

No. If it's on reaction they're most likely getting hit. The reason you would whiff is because she was teleporting already before you went for spark. Theres a bunch of frames where she can still get hit as she's teleporting.

nvm

[Tofu Warrior]

You can VTC > hammer the super iirc.

Wow, this changes everything. You can just buffer the VTC during her super freeze, then punish her with CH Hammer. If she's magnetized, you can do a 4.6K combo, 4.2K if she's unmagnetized. If you have 50 heat, you can MTW, clash, then cancel the clash into whatever you want.

Thanks for the tip AXIS, this match up just became free (if you can get in lol).

[abadlime]

well shit. i guess you can react to spark bolt...

[Ctrlaltwtf]

Wow, this changes everything. You can just buffer the VTC during her super freeze, then punish her with CH Hammer. If she's magnetized, you can do a 4.6K combo, 4.2K if she's unmagnetized. If you have 50 heat, you can MTW, clash, then cancel the clash into whatever you want.

Thanks for the tip AXIS, this match up just became free (if you can get in lol).

She can teleport cancel her reversal. Not sure this technique is actually 100% reliable. Although, I think (Izayoi players correct me if I'm wrong) she needs 2 stocks in order to D Teleport (behind you). So if she doesn't have the stocks you should be able to get her reliably with this.

[Tofu Warrior]

She's able to cancel her super into a teleport with 2 stocks? Or do you mean only when it clashes with MTW?

[Brice]

ok so i tested stuff to beat out the reversal super like everyone is talking.

THIS IS GOOD!

ok then lets talk :

if you VTC on the superflash and HAMMER right away you will CH her for free (normal mode, close to her)

if you VTC on the superflash and HAMMER right away you will CH her for free (TELEPORT MODE AND SHE TELEPORTS BEHIND YOU) the CH will hit during the infinite active frames behind you (thank you based hitboxes)

if you backdash after the super flash you can 720 her and she can't RC the super, it's kinda hard because you can't just input backdash during superflash you need to really time it making it a hard way to punish super.

if she's in teleport mode and she teleports (because yes she can teleport on whiff D: ) she will CH you for free.

of course if she can just RC it and she's in her teleport mode there's nothing you can so other than guessing the punish you wanna use or just block it

[TagerTime]

ok so i tested stuff to beat out the reversal super like everyone is talking.

THIS IS GOOD!

ok then lets talk :

if you VTC on the superflash and HAMMER right away you will CH her for free (normal mode, close to her)

if you VTC on the superflash and HAMMER right away you will CH her for free (TELEPORT MODE AND SHE TELEPORTS BEHIND YOU) the CH will hit during the infinite active frames behind you (thank you based hitboxes)

if you backdash after the super flash you can 720 her and she can't RC the super, it's kinda hard because you can't just input backdash during superflash you need to really time it making it a hard way to punish super.

if she's in teleport mode and she teleports (because yes she can teleport on whiff D: ) she will CH you for free.

of course if she can just RC it and she's in her teleport mode there's nothing you can so other than guessing the punish you wanna use or just block it

You can do Overdrive>720 too! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HZz9ISk-kk&feature=youtu.be&t=2m54s

[Maho]

If she has meter to RC the super and can also TP cancel it, instead of going for backdash 720 which is a commitment, you can backdash then either do a 5C which will CH her if she didn't TP, or 2B that will hit her as she crosses you up if she does TP, the good part is that you're safe even if you guess wrong.

Another solution which is pretty much te optimal one if you have 50% meter is to do a VTC 720, the VTC will delay the invuln frames of the 720 so it goes through Izayoi's super and grab her, but it's quite hard to do, you have to do the VTC at the very end of the freeze and complete the 720 just before the super hits, if you do it to soon the invuln frames won't be delayed enough and you'll get hit.

[Brice]

oh i like the VTC into 720 option, i was trying to memorize the 720 timing to grab her out of the super, spinning the stick during the superflash and pressing the button slightly after the super resumes and then being able to grab her out of it. the main problem is if you are not on point you either get hit or the 720 comes out too fast and you get CH.

EDIT : just tested out VTC > 720 on superflash and i find it harder than just timing the 720... :/

i wanted to 214D on super flash, hold the button while spinning the stick and just have a better buffer to 720 after the flash. turns out the game will not starts VTC if you 214D 7896321... during the superflash and just make you jump, while only doing 214D and holding it while doing nothing else in the superflash will register it as VTC

welp i now have the muscle memory for raw 720 on the superflash so w/e : P

i'll go with 720 if i she has meter to RC it, and straight up VTC > hammer if she doesn't have meter.

[TagerTime]

i'll go with 720 if i she has meter to RC it, and straight up VTC > hammer if she doesn't have meter.

Its nice that it seems VTC>Hammer isnt completly useless afterall. It works against quite a few other chars supers too. Here is a VTC > Hammer combo to try next time you fight her.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AuFLxqM6qg&feature=youtu.be&t=3m30s

[Yohosie]

Izayoi feels like a bad matchup, mostly because Sonic Saber and her DP> A/B/C make it hard to get in without giving her stocks of whatever-they're-called. Blocking her projectiles is stupid, you really want to either avoid them or better yet backdash them. She'll have no problem just throwing them out and 623Bing you when you jump, though, so she's bound to make her sword green and go nuts eventually. She really has no reason to go in in purple sword and doesn't have much of a reason to get hit.

 

Backdash her Sonic Sabers (in default mode). Most of your damage will probably come from making hard reads when she's in greensword.

Voltic > Smash beats her reversal super, even after she teleports. Leads to hell of damage & oki

Backdash > 720 beats her reversal super, even after she teleports, and is not burstable, but feels frame-perfect (maybe 2 frames? a bitch regardless)

Overdrive > 720 beats her reversal super and isn't burstable

You can straight 720C her but the timing is megatight

[just some guy]

I've had far more luck against her just instablocking her swords. They're by far the easiest projectile to react to in the game.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

By inputting Voltec during her Superflash you can kara-cancel it with 720 and grab her. Just input 214D, then spin the stick and push C the moment she stabs. Throw Counters her before she's even done stabbing.

 

Same technique used to do standing 720s.

 

I've had far more luck against her just instablocking her swords. They're by far the easiest projectile to react to in the game.

 

By doing this you're just feeding her Gain Arts gauge. That's what she wants. There's a reason her projectiles do little damage.

[Yohosie]

Yeah, you really don't want to give her gain arts (or as i called it, "meter shit"). Her going greensword and going ham on you is basically unavoidable in this matchup, but you want to delay it as long as you can. Voltic, Block, Sledge, they all give her Gain Arts. You need to avoid them.