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[CP] Tager vs Azrael: AKA Tager vs Slayer

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His frame advantage and push back on his normals/specials makes it really hard to punish him.

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Ugh, this matchup is pretty brutal. Azrael has an incredible backstep. He can escape pretty easily when he wants to because of it. He's got a lot of moves you can't 360 him out of. Azrael can outmaneuver you and outdamage you all the while keeping his feet firmly on the ground.

Start of the Round:

Azrael almost always backs off here, sometimes attempts a 5C at the start.

Neutral:

Azrael likes to hang around just slightly closer than fullscreen. This distance puts him in a good spot for setting up his 236A. This move is annoying, it's basically Hell's Fang if Hell's Fang was actually useful in neutral seeing as it's +1 on block. Don't let the long distance deceive you, Azrael's capable of closing gaps quickly with his forward dash and this move. This distance also allows quick punishment with BHS, which covers nearly fullscreen almost instantly and can be used to punish any slow moves you use. BHS can intercept your backdashing if you get careless with it.

Growler absorbs Spark Bolt, and he can use it over and over. He can even backdash Spark Bolt. Growler must remain active for about a second and a half, so make sure to gain some distance if he uses one at range, and punish him if he mistimes it during your pressure.

Azrael's backstep is one of your biggest challenges in this matchup. A whopping 20 frames of invulnerability gives him a powerful tool to avoid all your neutral options.

Azrael's forward dash almost as bad as his backstep. It makes it difficult to catch him during breaks in his pressure. He'll go behind you and punish you for trying. This is a tool he will use to bait your 360 mash.

Defending His Pressure:

Tager has a lot of difficulty with Azrael's pressure. It's a very unique combination of moves that are either difficult or impossible to 360 and usually put you in a bad situation on block. This means you need to be on the watch for his slow startups and punish them with 5A or 5B before they hit your block.

His Drives:

It's very difficult to tell 6D and 3D apart, you often just have to guess. However, all of Azrael's ground drives are 360able. This is really good for us because Drive mixup is an essential part of Azrael's playstyle.

5D has a tiny hop in it that can cause your 360A to whiff, but it still usually works. 5D can be punished with a IB 360B.

2D can be punished with IB 5A or 360B.

6D and 3D can only be punished with a IB 720. This is very difficult though because it's a lucky chance if you can buffer 720 and block his mixup properly here.

For all his D moves, 5A is a good choice if you normal block them even if it won't punish, because you are at enough + to take control.

Other Annoying Moves

6B. While Azrael won't be anti-airing you very much, he can use this during a string to reset his distance from you. If you block this, the only punishment available is a Spark Bolt or a magnetized 720.

Sentinel Dump is a pressure resetter you must punish during it's startup. You cannot 360 it and if you block it he gets to restart his pressure with a whopping +12.

3C is not 360able and he can use this to bait a mash and lead to serious pain. You're usually too far away to punish his 3C on block, though at close ranges a 360B will snag him.

6C can't be 360'd (noticing a pattern here?) and is +2 on block, another reset tool that needs to be punished before the hit. This move Fatals if you react with your punish too slowly.

His 2C can only be followed up by 6D, 3D, or 3C

Misc Notes:

BHS loses to 360A and 720, even if he uses it after you use 720.

Scud Punishment does not lose to 360A or 720 if you mash it. You have to time it very precisely after the superfreeze ends (difficult during a real match). It's very unlikely he'll just throw this out randomly though.

Gadget Finger vs Grand Punish

GF oki isn't very strong in this matchup for a lot of reasons, but it should be noted that 360A will beat his backdash. However, this is an insanely risky gimmick and should not be relied on.

5C will not snag his backdash.

5D will but not only is it super risky it also sends him flying fullscreen which isn't helpful.

He does have a legitimate DP that will send us flying fullscreen.

To cap it all, we have to worry about his forward dash during GF oki. He can easily punish us with this.

All in all, I don't recommend GF oki in this matchup and highly recommend GP routes instead.

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GF is +3 and doing Forward dash on it is pretty bad.

Forward dash doesn't have invul, it can be canceled into a jump at any time to give him a jump with momentum on it.

Your write up was really really nice.

Seems like you fought a decent Azrael.

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Growler Field also goes through 720C, it seems. Just seems to have invulnerability and active frames at just the perfect times.

A lot of his pressure is actually pretty easy to Instant Block, but it seems some moves you still have to respect and wait for the move you can punish safely.

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GF is +3 and doing Forward dash on it is pretty bad.

Forward dash doesn't have invul

It does. Rath just forward dashed through my Spark Bolt :(

It's F7-10 invulnerable.

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A slightly charged 6A after Gadget Finger will tag his backdash. It leaves you close enough to combo into 2C xx delayed A-Sledge. However, if he forward dashes, your 6A will whiff and he can do whatever he wants. This is...upsetting. However, because of its delayed invulnerability, it will lose to 5A. So that's not bad, 5A covers two of his options. His DP sends you across the screen, which is pretty scary, but overall I'm not too worried about it.

Just use Gadget Flinger whenever you have 50 heat :3

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His 5B and lots of his other normals are really good at snagging your backdash. Don't rely on it too much to get you out of trouble. Due to his link-based nature he really doesn't care too much if he whiffs; he'll just keep comboing/pressuring as if it never happened.

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It does. Rath just forward dashed through my Spark Bolt :(

It's F7-10 invulnerable.

Hmm that's good to know.

Forward dashing spark bolt.

Hahaha hilarious.

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Hmm that's good to know.

Forward dashing spark bolt.

Hahaha hilarious.

I was SO mad lol. I should upload the replay.

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Please do, those moments are golden <3

I forgot about it and it's long since been auto-pruned unfortunately lol. Rath might've saved it though.

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I'm really confused about how to handle this match. Generally my gameplan involves magnitising my opponents to start pressure and do command throw mix ups but it feels like to me that I can't do that against Azrael more or less cause my 360 attempts get blown up by his ubsurd normals or I can't get him to respect any of the pressure. I've been reading earlier in this thread that gadget finger isn't a good idea in this match so I'm getting the impression magnitising Azrael comes with some risks cause it gives him a way in. I'm not even sure where to start dissecting this match cause I can't find a good spot to backdash against his pressure without risking myself getting blown up either, I usually have tried against his high low mix ups but Azrael's 6D and 3C usually catch me doing backdash...

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I'm really confused about how to handle this match. Generally my gameplan involves magnitising my opponents to start pressure and do command throw mix ups but it feels like to me that I can't do that against Azrael more or less cause my 360 attempts get blown up by his ubsurd normals or I can't get him to respect any of the pressure. I've been reading earlier in this thread that gadget finger isn't a good idea in this match so I'm getting the impression magnitising Azrael comes with some risks cause it gives him a way in. I'm not even sure where to start dissecting this match cause I can't find a good spot to backdash against his pressure without risking myself getting blown up either, I usually have tried against his high low mix ups but Azrael's 6D and 3C usually catch me doing backdash...

 

GF can work, you can just have to make some different reads. 5A won't work against any of his options except if he mashes 5A himself or jumps (which are both kind of a weird choices for him). Both his back and forward dashes will avoid it and growler will obviously reverse it as well as anything else you do. It's honestly pretty similar to dealing with Arakune on GF oki, only faster, with a very short-range DP in the mix.

 

When I do GF I either hard read a backdash with a held 360A or block and wait in the hopes of seeing a Growler or just blocking his 5A. It really isn't too bad if he does push 5A and put you into blocking because Azrael definitely has holes in his strings that we can exploit due to this link-based nature. 5BB is always 360'able if you IB the first hit, and just about anything he does (that doesn't jump off the ground) after 5BB is 360'able on a IB, sometimes on NB. His 6D and 3D are always 360able so you really shouldn't worry about the mix-up and instead just focus on recognizing them and 360'ing them both. 5D is almost always 360able unless you get unlucky and let go of the button for the brief period he's off the ground.

 

Don't backdash. Tager can't backdash anything anymore but regardless, he was never able to backdash much in this MU anyway because Azrael doesn't gatling. Even if you backdash and make him whiff it doesn't mess him up at all he'll just keep doing things and hit you out of it. So just block things, IB the correct hits, then reverse with a 360. He may anticipate this and try to get out of it but he's always vulnerable when trying to do that.

 

Both his supers suck as reversals in this MU due to how they dive into Tager and aren't very fast. So if he has a lot of heat and you anticipate a mashed reversal on oki just let him do it then 360 him out of it. Scud Punishment has a bit weirder timing for this but it's still doable.

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When I 360 Azrael's 6/3D should I be A version for range or just watch my spacing and use the right one accordingly?

 

360A is the only one with invuln you rarely if ever have the opportunity the reverse things with 360B; it's there for punishes, hard reads, or setups.

 

360A is fully invuln from F3 so you only need 3-frame gaps in order to reverse things. 360B has a 6F startup and no invuln so you'd need a 6F gap that isn't a jumping move (hella unlikely against legit players)

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Random tip:

 

I see a lot of Tagers try to punish Azrael backdash with 360[A] after GF. Because GF against Azrael requires you to make hard as hell reads, you might as well go all the way and do optimal punishes. Backdash gets beaten by GF whiff > 360B for more damage, or 6C > 236A > 5A > 3C > AC (whiff) > Etc for way more damage than 360A. In addition, the 6C route allows you to end with GP, which is generally better oki against Azrael (ugh).

 

In general, GF oki in this matchup is a total guessing game. Azrael can DP, jump, block, forward dash, or backdash, and for the most part each option requires a different guess from Tager. It's a guess not in your favor whatsoever. Meanwhile when he knocks us down it's almost free pressure. That's what makes the matchup pretty painful. use GP when you can, and when you do GF (unavoidable in some routes) make good as hell reads and punish him the best you can.

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Random tip:

 

I see a lot of Tagers try to punish Azrael backdash with 360[A] after GF. Because GF against Azrael requires you to make hard as hell reads, you might as well go all the way and do optimal punishes. Backdash gets beaten by GF whiff > 360B for more damage, or 6C > 236A > 5A > 3C > AC (whiff) > Etc for way more damage than 360A. In addition, the 6C route allows you to end with GP, which is generally better oki against Azrael (ugh).

 

In general, GF oki in this matchup is a total guessing game. Azrael can DP, jump, block, forward dash, or backdash, and for the most part each option requires a different guess from Tager. It's a guess not in your favor whatsoever. Meanwhile when he knocks us down it's almost free pressure. That's what makes the matchup pretty painful. use GP when you can, and when you do GF (unavoidable in some routes) make good as hell reads and punish him the best you can.

 

The reason I prefer 360A is cuz it beats him mashing 5A as well. Not saying a super hard read isn't necessary (it's what you do on Tager, honestly) but that's why I like 360A most of the time if I'm going to try.

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It doesn't work, you aren't invincible during the frames you hold 360A, Azrael mashing 5A will beat you if you time it to catch his backdash, honestly the risk reward on GF mixup is pretty bad on Azrael, here's a summary of some options you might use.
 
- 360A > if you do it to catch the backdash, 5A will beat it (there's a specific combo for about 2.5k+1WP), if he jumps and punish on landing that's at least 4.3k + 1WP, if you do time it to beat a mash and he jumps or backdashes, he can punish for about 4.3 to 5k+ (meterless without any WP) and you'll most likely end cornered.
- GF whiff 360B (or 720) > catches jumps for 100dmg and back into the same mixup, catches backdashes but loses to mash.
- 720 > catches backdashes and mash, loses to jumps, can beat or lose to Growler depending of how Azrael times it (but no sane Azrael will do Growler here).
- 6C > catches backdashes, loses to mash and jumps, delayed 6A is kinda the same for less reward.
- 5A > beat mash and jump, backdashes escapes but you're safe, loses to Growler, but like I said before that's not really an issue.
 
One thing to know is that Azrael don't really have a reason to mash on 5A here, as 5A and 5B will lose or win to the same Tager's options, so if he want to take the option of hit a button, he might as well do it for a better reward, and CH 5B combos can hurt quite a bit.
But really, Azrael actually just have 2 options to consider to cover GF mixup, backdash and forward jump jA, the second will cover anything the first loses and actually only lose to 5A and double GF (well and 5B if you use it), also in a lot of cases he'll be able to confirm in a combo for about 3k+1WP if jA hits.

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It doesn't work, you aren't invincible during the frames you hold 360A, Azrael mashing 5A will beat you if you time it to catch his backdash, honestly the risk reward on GF mixup is pretty bad on Azrael, here's a summary of some options you might use.
 

 

I just let go of the button when I see that he's pushing 5A.

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You react to a 6f button? Seriously?

 

It's critical to not do 360A as soon as possible, your +3 actually fucks you up here, do it late and the first 5A will whiff. So it's me holding it a bit late, then seeing him whiff a 5A and letting go. This is honestly why I don't like GF oki too much it makes you too + for specific situations.

 

He honestly almost never 5As; if he didn't backdash he jumped instead and he's about to punch me in the face, or he Growlered and I'm flying across the screen. It's a hard read no matter what you do. Yes there's times where I've messed up; he actually backdashed and I didn't get him. But I've never been hit out of a 360A by a 5A. It's less of a reaction and more of a setup I should say. The timing for "hold 360A, he whiffs 5A, let go of the A button" and "hold 360A and let go of the A button when he backdashes" are actually not that far apart.

 

With the changes to backsteps though I've been looking for a potential option select now, though. Not looking likely though.

 

5A whiff > 720 is the only OS I see for a backdash or a 5A. (honestly not bad at all though)

 

I'm not entirely sure if it's a guaranteed 720 because it's really hard to test with 1 person, but it looks like it is.

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Props to you if you can react that fast, I'm too old to even think about doing this  :lol:

 

Looking at frame data, 5A whiff > 720 should be guaranteed, I don't think we can really call that an OS though as if the 5A hits, we need to react really fast to hit confirm, that's another thing that's too hard for me honestly. 

 

For Growler, like I said, I don't really see that as an issue because the risk reward is very bad for Azrael (about 10 to 1) and even worse for him is that if you hold down back after GF and goes for it, it just whiffs and he can't RC it.

I would only look for it after a GF if I see the player is Growler happy, especially if he has meter to check if he's aware of the whiff issue.

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Growler DP is perfectly fine in this matchup. All DPs are by nature high risk low reward (except Inferno Divider in Corner, Ragna you bitch). The value of his DP isn't the DP itself but the threat of it. If he shows he's willing to use it it means we're forced to bait it as an option, and give up valuable Oki. And, considering how he has like 4 different options and we need 4 different answers, adding in another answer/option just pushes the guessing game further in his favor.

 

Great Azraels DP great Tagers fairly often.

 

 

(or just don't GF in this matchup without 50 meter to do some gimmicks)

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if you're looking at it from a perspective of growler does 600 damage and 720 does 5k you're doing it wrong.

 

if you die if you don't growler and you die if you have growler baited. it's more just like a 50-50.

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