[CP] Ragna vs Haku-Men

[floatwater]

Discuss the Ragna vs Hakumen matchup here:

MOST of the frame data and game-plan from EX still applies to CP.

Match Start:

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Neutral:

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Offense:

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Defense:

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Punishes (on block/reaction):

Combo Notes:

I or a Mod will edit post as more info comes. Contriboot.

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[zero34]

Man, this match-up got annoying with Haku's new move Agito. I can't stop it with 6a since he's usually to high to do anything, so all I can do is block it and have more pressure on me. Plus he can position himself so it can cross-up. Any advice would be helpful.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Man, this match-up got annoying with Haku's new move Agito. I can't stop it with 6a since he's usually to high to do anything, so all I can do is block it and have more pressure on me. Plus he can position himself so it can cross-up. Any advice would be helpful.

Agito has head, Body and Foot attributes so its always going to beat 6A. Just block it, its 0 +/- if its dashed, so just work on IB and punishing.

[zero34]

Agito has head, Body and Foot attributes so its always going to beat 6A. Just block it, its 0 +/- if its dashed, so just work on IB and punishing.

Ok, I'll work on that. Thanks for the info.

[Fistmaster049]

Agito has head, Body and Foot attributes so its always going to beat 6A. Just block it, its 0 +/- if its dashed, so just work on IB and punishing.

Would ID beat it if you predict Agito? or would Ragna not go high enough?

[Callisto]

Incidentally, I found it amusing that our local player who plays Hakumen goes by Agito and be bodied me with that move so I got blown up by Agito's Agito

[mAc Chaos]

Would ID beat it if you predict Agito? or would Ragna not go high enough?

It would beat it.

[floatwater]

Why is just blocking it a problem?

[Kuraudo_V6]

Why is just blocking it a problem?

We're Ragna. We're not supposed to give a fuck.

[Shinsyn]

Blocking Agito is not a problem, in fact, it's the best answer. Just be aware that Hakumen can get a few things off of a blocked Agito.

Hakumen can start his pressure with an Agito.

Falling J.B will catch you pressing buttons.

They can set up a TRM setup with falling j.B > j.A > Throw so if you're mashing a throw, you'll get bodied.

In the end, the best answer is to block and wait your turn.

[mAc Chaos]

Why not just block and then ID or 6a them on the way down? Or does it have too much blockstun.

[Shinsyn]

Why not just block and then ID or 6a them on the way down? Or does it have too much blockstun.

In order for 6A to work, you have to IB Agito, It's odd because I've seen 6A whiff and gotten punished with Hakumen falling j.B or landing and grabbing the opponent. ID does work but you can block if you catch me trying to ID you.

Agito is almost like an Anti-Anti-Air lol

[Sezuki]

In order for 6A to work, you have to IB Agito, It's odd because I've seen 6A whiff and gotten punished with Hakumen falling j.B or landing and grabbing the opponent. ID does work but you can block if you catch me trying to ID you.

Agito is almost like an Anti-Anti-Air lol

You can 6A without IB, But I ran through of list of situations where you would win and would lose: I'm testing this on his Hop dash Agito and higher timed Agito.

Since Agito has little to no recovery (this move :/):

If you don't IB and 6A immediately and he mistimes a J.D you will win, you will lose if opp. knows you'll delay. Same situation occurs when you IB but if you 6A immediately and he does as well you will lose. I'm guessing it has to do with the blockstun on IB and the recovery on Agito. This also happens with ID. (Hop dash)

Doing this on a higher height of Agito it's almost the same.

5A mash loses to J.D as well and also if they Tsubaki but 5A beats his J.A, j.B.

NOW on a higher height of Agito 5A will get bodied by all those normal but you won't get sucked in to J.D because of the nerf (yay).

5A, 6A, and ID are the go to for this but it becomes really "50/50", also note if they do hop dash Agito midscreen they will end up behind you (it's a little weird though).

Again I still would just block and get some meter, his pressure isn't amazing when you anticipate what he does. But if you want to do this then go ahead yo.

Sorry this is such a shitty and lazy write up. Gomen ;-;

EDIT: Done by Cross.

[Shinsyn]

@Sezuki: Still leads to what I was saying earlier: Just block. His pressure is good but his Mix up is really lacking, so blocking against Hakumen shouldn't be an issue. Just IB and punish him accordingly.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Good lord this matchup does not favor Ragna at all. Hakumen lost a lot of defensive options, but in its place he gets a meter gain and massive damage buffs. He can kill you in 2-3 combos if you aren't careful.

Not much I can say on this matchup beyond play aggressively, but not recklessly. As noted, Agito basically means he has a safe air approaching tool, so be weary of that.

[Seijuuro32]

Can someone give me advice on how to get in on a good hakumen that like to turtle a lot, please? This is the match-up that I have the most trouble for and I don't know how to really play against him. His counters and reversal abilities made me wary of rushing him down and they knew it. After they get a few hits in they either wait for me to come to them or wait for the time to run out T.T

[BlackYakuzu94]

Can someone give me advice on how to get in on a good hakumen that like to turtle a lot, please? This is the match-up that I have the most trouble for and I don't know how to really play against him. His counters and reversal abilities made me wary of rushing him down and they knew it. After they get a few hits in they either wait for me to come to them or wait for the time to run out T.T

 

You gonna have to bite the bullet and go in because Hakumen only gets harder to beat the longer a match goes on due to his passive meter gain, which just gives him a higher chance of using his fuckton damage. 

 

Hakumen may seem daunting, but his defensive options, while still incredibly viable and good, are much weaker here than in previous iterations. If you find yourself constantly getting tagged by them, starting throwing in some throws when you feel they're coming. You can also block them provided the move that gets caught is jump cancelable. 

 

Hakumen is somebody you have to be on point fighting against, which means you can't get too predictable or reckless as it is very easy to have a round stolen from you even if you had the advantage.

 

If you want, I can help you grind this matchup. 

[Seijuuro32]

You gonna have to bite the bullet and go in because Hakumen only gets harder to beat the longer a match goes on due to his passive meter gain, which just gives him a higher chance of using his fuckton damage. 

 

Hakumen may seem daunting, but his defensive options, while still incredibly viable and good, are much weaker here than in previous iterations. If you find yourself constantly getting tagged by them, starting throwing in some throws when you feel they're coming. You can also block them provided the move that gets caught is jump cancelable. 

 

Hakumen is somebody you have to be on point fighting against, which means you can't get too predictable or reckless as it is very easy to have a round stolen from you even if you had the advantage.

 

If you want, I can help you grind this matchup. 

 

I saw many Ragnas rushed him down aggressively only to have him turn the tables later towards the end of the match with his reversal supers which made me hesitant to rush him down >. < I think I haven't seen a Ragna online that won a match against a good hakumen... Also, I think I may be too predictable against him as well because I haven't finish learning all of Ragna's combos.

 

Yeah, I would like to grind this match up with you. Do you play during the weekends?

[BlackYakuzu94]

That's actually my best time, shoot me a friend request and we'll setup a time.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Seijuuro32]

That's actually my best time, shoot me a friend request and we'll setup a time.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Ok. Thanks!

[LaowPing]

This match up really isn't that hard. Maybe I just haven't played against good Hakumens before.

 

Hakumens poke is annoying but his approach sucks without magtama. 6A will blow up IAD and ID blows up J.B after Agito. If he turtles just approach and space carefully with Dead Spike and 5B and 5C. Once you're in, just do Ragna stuff. Grabs and mix-ups will stop his counters and Ragna is good at catching jump outs

 

I'm actually not sure what's difficult about this match up. At worst I see it as 6/4 in Hakumens favor just due to his late game damage and poke.

[Fistmaster049]

This match up really isn't that hard. Maybe I just haven't played against good Hakumens before.

 

Hakumens poke is annoying but his approach sucks without magtama. 6A will blow up IAD and ID blows up J.B after Agito. If he turtles just approach and space carefully with Dead Spike and 5B and 5C. Once you're in, just do Ragna stuff. Grabs and mix-ups will stop his counters and Ragna is good at catching jump outs

 

I'm actually not sure what's difficult about this match up. At worst I see it as 6/4 in Hakumens favor just due to his late game damage and poke.

I think it mostly seems to come down to Ragnas getting scared by Hakumen's massive damage and fear of punishment for doing dumb things

That and his pokes can be annoying

Main problem mostly seems to come if Ragna lets Hakumen just sit and charge meter all day, he is forced into coming closer and then Hakumen's game can become "turtle till he comes near me and react to how he approaches"

lame tactic but to predictable players its foolproof 

 

Personally speaking I find the matchup more annoying than bad especially to smart Hakus who know to look for grabs if you up close

Basically play aggro...but not predictably aggro

[BlackYakuzu94]

Its difficult because Hakumen doesn't have to take as many risks as Ragna and can still keep the advantage with passive meter gain; Ragna is forced to go on the offensive more often than not, and as we all know his offense isn't the best in the game or that oppressive. And then it becomes even more difficult when he has 4+ stars, because then you have to be aware of Yukikaze or Zantetsu, which will take off a solid chunk of Ragna's health and probably neuter the advantage you had before. 

 

 

It's not a bad matchup for Ragna per se, you just can't autopilot. So yea, aggressive is the best way to win this matchup, just don't confuse aggressiveness with recklessness.

[Seijuuro32]

I still got no strategy against smart hakumens who can tech most of my grabs and have really good defense. I just learn one thing is stop moving when I got a feeling they are going to do Yukikaze or astral XD

[BlackYakuzu94]

Want me to help you grind the match up some more :V