Order-Sol vs. Millia

[Nakkiel]

You can SV out of any disc except for the FB disc(the blue one).

You can safely SV an S Tandem Top. If she sets a meaty HS TT and your SV whiffs or gets blocked, the hitstop is nowhere near enough to get you through the disc, and you'll get counter-hit into a free combo.

Blocking in the oki situation (and don't try pulling the "you shouldn't be in that situation", since a simple 2D by itself leads to that) is far and away your best option. Millia DOES have reversal safe oki, and frankly it's not terribly difficult to do. I know you'd hate to do this, but just block her mixup. The matchup for her against OS is already in your favor. Instead of risking a CH and a reset into the same damn situation again, you can block and get away and proceed to rape her in the neutral game and get your offense.

[Nakkiel]

Uhm, I did? Also you missed the fact that she can cross you up with her fastfall move, which has an FRC. So yes, she can cross you up and block any reversal you may try.

[reaVer]

You somehow seem to miss the fact that SV would only come out on crossup and that when she does a tensionless crossup, she's gonna eat it. Now, her fast fall move, that one gives an obvious signal, its not like she just warps down all of a sudden, she gets stuck in the air for a bit. Also, she needs to jump at a certain angle which is also a give away; which is also why its obviously not used on that high level. IAD is sudden, hence it works and that's the situation is what the option select is for, so you don't have to guess between forward and backward.

[Nakkiel]

An FRC'd fastfall attack is nearly as fast as a TK Bad Moon. It is not some obvious giveaway, especially since fast fall and Bad Moon don't look very different in the heat of the match. It doesn't have the potential to be ambiguous, but it's faster than an IAD crossup.

It's also not terribly difficult to dash over and block.

In short, my point is you should just BLOCK because it's BETTER 90% of the the time than an SV.

[Sesshyru]

Awww here we go again.. Did someone delete a post O.o? Yah, played against a Millia player last night, I like blocking way more than SV'ing.. Personal preference maybe.. Its hard stuff to block tho >.o... Why exactly is the matchup in Order Sol's favor again O.o?

[Tsak]

Awww here we go again..

Did someone delete a post O.o?

Yah, played against a Millia player last night, I like blocking way more than SV'ing.. Personal preference maybe.. Its hard stuff to block tho >.o...

Why exactly is the matchup in Order Sol's favor again O.o?

he destroys her in the air

his footsies > hers

she takes a lot of damage from footsies

[reaVer]

he destroys her in the air

his footsies > hers

she takes a lot of damage from footsies

In short, OS can actually poke against her, and she doesn't like that.

[Sesshyru]

Tsak - you gota personally show me how its done at Kenji;s on saturday. ^ no homo

[Tsak]

Tsak - you gota personally show me how its done at Kenji;s on saturday.

^ no homo

doode

i work like all day saturday

i work at a grocery store and its valentines day

think about it

[Sesshyru]

SV somebody with a lettuce head or somethin. And bring me a packet of Bacon.

[Nakkiel]

Tsak - you gota personally show me how its done at Kenji;s on saturday.

^ no homo

The walkthrough to beating Millia with OS!:

1. Get better at blocking!

2. If she's in the air, beat out all her normals with j.P!

3. If she's coming in from the ground, spam on 2S!

4. Combo from your spamming!

5. Win!

[Hintalove]

The walkthrough to beating Millia with OS!:

1. Get better at blocking!

2. If she's in the air, beat out all her normals with j.P!

3. If she's coming in from the ground, spam on 2S!

4. Combo from your spamming!

5. Win!

If only that were true. #1 is pretty true, but the rest of it is subject to gross over generalizations.

2.Millia happens to be one of the few characters who can straight up beat out, or at least go even with Order Sol in terms of speed and coverage of her air normals. Her jk is brutal, and getting ched by a pin as you flail around with jp always makes you feel dumb.

3. Millia 2d and 5s control space on the ground just as well if not better than OS normals. If you think shes going to throw something out and you are relatively close, unless you are straight up in your opponents head RI will give you cleaner and safer results. Add in to that Millia 6p and 2s(clean and brutal chs on jh) and you have a decently hard to approach opponent on the ground as well as air.

4. I was wrong, this point is spot on too. If you hit her with anything, at least make sure it nets you some charge, idealy you want every gay little hit you can squeeze out of a jp or w/e.

5. I feel this match is pretty even. Millia has many advantages, but OS has a good lifebar and some decent tools to keep millia at bay. Of course once you get trapped if you cant dead angle you better be really good at blocking.

Also, that combo inoue did to En was black beatm but it prob works just fine, though I wouldn't try it on characters lighter than slayer.

That freaking DoT frc Burst block was so tight. En is the king of slayers, and here we have mediocre Inoue taking him out(perfecting him lat round). I wish I didn't suck at neutral situations vs slayer.

[Sesshyru]

The walkthrough to beating Millia with OS!:

1. Get better at blocking!

2. If she's in the air, beat out all her normals with j.P!

3. If she's coming in from the ground, spam on 2S!

4. Combo from your spamming!

5. Win!

Yo - I kno how to do this, I was just tryin to get Tsak outa his house again, but he work too hard.

[Nakkiel]

If only that were true. #1 is pretty true, but the rest of it is subject to gross over generalizations.

That was the point

[WUT]

I wouldn't even say Millia's ground poking comes close to threatening HOS. Playing footsies with 2D is akin to suicide if it whiffs, and her only other "threatening" ground-to-ground pokes are 6P and 5S(f), both of which lose to 2S and 6P (lol). Or you can just be a douchebag and RI, as was stated. Blocking is always the best option, even if you are stuck guarding 50/50s constantly. A vast majority of the time Millia's oki is reversal safe, and the punish for your reversal is a reset into the same situation. Just guard it and escape once she pushes herself out. Honestly, I find guarding her easier than it seems, aside from the potential double ADC mix-up in the corner. Mid-screen, if she leaves the ground you're either in for a Bad Moon or Turbo Fall shenanigans, both of which are reversal safe. If she stays on the ground and mixes up with 2K/2S or 6K, you can actually reversal successfully. However, if she does FB disc, you sit your ass still and try to guard. Trading with that is a big no-no.

[Sesshyru]

The millias around here will pin you down, do a disk - then do the ground car and FRC or RC it into a j.K and.. Its all over from there *-* So hard to predict muchless block $(

[WUT]

You see blue after hair car, you guard high. If it takes too long for them to hit you switch back to low.

[Destin]

I think technically there is a guard you can do that defeats the hair slide mixup, a certain timing on the switch of block. If not though, I think we are talking around 7f's to react, thats too fast for most people.

[WUT]

I guess I was being a little too dramatic with it. If you guard hair car, guard high immediately after. The only problem with this is if the oki situation is accompanied by FB disc, at which point you can be put into a fuzzy guard position (FB disc, meaty hair car FRC land, 2K/j.K) for standing up to guard the FRC j.K mix-up. It's still safer in the long run to guard as such, since the fuzzy guard isn't used often and can be tricky to utilize.

[reaVer]

Erm, fuzzy guard is used at least once every match and thereby is used more often than the double SV vs SV throw mixup. I wouldn't say it isn't used often... especially because she knows you'll be guarding.

[Destin]

I guess I was being a little too dramatic with it. If you guard hair car, guard high immediately after. The only problem with this is if the oki situation is accompanied by FB disc, at which point you can be put into a fuzzy guard position (FB disc, meaty hair car FRC land, 2K/j.K) for standing up to guard the FRC j.K mix-up. It's still safer in the long run to guard as such, since the fuzzy guard isn't used often and can be tricky to utilize.

Yeah, Millia's can get really trick with that, but even the situation you mentioned has a specific guard sequence that should get you out of it, a low high low block, but now we are approaching too difficult to be worth your time.

Of course, guarding like 95% of the time is the correct approach, but there is still room for 5% SV'ing I would guess (not against the dust ring). Truth be told though, I don't have much millia experience in AC. In Reload I would use dizzy's 0 frame super to trade with whatever millia was doing, this was really useful, don't know if it helps here since you can dead angle for better results.

[WUT]

Fuzzy guard isn't used at least once a match. More often than not Millia will go with the more simple and consistent high/low and cross-ups rather than the more advanced set-ups; fuzzy guard is a product of conditioning and match-up progress rather than something Millia will use as a prime mix-up, seeing as the whole fuzzy guard is lost if she can't make you guard high to begin with. Destin: That particular situation cannot be solved with a simple guarding sequence of low/high/low; in fact, that's why the fuzzy guard will work and a guard break will occur: guarding low after you guard high. EDIT: TB: Could you move this post and the other Millia-relevant posts to the appropriate match-up thread? Less clutter and more on-topic is always nice.

[Destin]

Destin: That particular situation cannot be solved with a simple guarding sequence of low/high/low; in fact, that's why the fuzzy guard will work and a guard break will occur: guarding low after you guard high.

We are running into a japanese definition American definition issue (as I understand from what TB has posted previously.) Henceforth I will use the american definition for fuzzy guard.

There, changing my statement, there is a specific guard string you can use that blocks that specific mixup assuming your timing is on point. The low comes by a certain frame, then the high must come before she reaches ground, but at fastest 3-4 frames after the possible low, then the low could come after that. Mixing up between these options will not change the optimal blocking, so it is guardable with great practice in timing, and without reading the opponent. Now, the opponent can mix this up in other ways, but they frc point/high low mixup is feasibly blockable. Thats what I meant by the fuzzy guard, which from what I understand is the Japanese definition.

The American definition would be more along the lines of a second jump K after the first, I'm not sure if that actually links, but it certainly might be possible. Millia's fuzzy guards usually work with the ball.

[Hintalove]

Fuzzy guards are where you take advantage of the fact that it takes you a certain ammount of frames for your standing blokcing hitbox to turn into your crouching blocking hitbox, and thus using an overhead that would usually whiff on a coruching opponent to break their guard. Example: running meaty j.s djh with ordersol. Good way to practice these are by going into training and turning the cpu on block first hit mode.

[LM_Akira]

We are running into a japanese definition American definition issue (as I understand from what TB has posted previously.) Henceforth I will use the american definition for fuzzy guard.

There, changing my statement, there is a specific guard string you can use that blocks that specific mixup assuming your timing is on point. The low comes by a certain frame, then the high must come before she reaches ground, but at fastest 3-4 frames after the possible low, then the low could come after that. Mixing up between these options will not change the optimal blocking, so it is guardable with great practice in timing, and without reading the opponent. Now, the opponent can mix this up in other ways, but they frc point/high low mixup is feasibly blockable. Thats what I meant by the fuzzy guard, which from what I understand is the Japanese definition.

The American definition would be more along the lines of a second jump K after the first, I'm not sure if that actually links, but it certainly might be possible. Millia's fuzzy guards usually work with the ball.

I wasn't aware there were different definitions of fuzzy guard related to American or Japanese use. The only time I hear people talk about fuzzy guard on here is in relation to what I covered in the vid at 4:36 here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGJMARVoXxg

and what Hintalove has already described.

This exact setup (deep j.S into dj.HS or a low) was first shown on the ancient Wargasm Slash Order-Sol vid. And I'm pretty sure it was described as a fuzzy guard back then. Hintalove, do the Japanese describe this situation as fuzzy guard?

Of course, the meaning of fuzzy guard also changes between game to game as well. Fuzzy guard in VF for example is something completely different (there it's use to defeat the mid/throw mixup in certain disadvantaged states by basically bobbing up and down / crouch dashing and holding G).