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pochp

[CP] Mu vs Jin

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This matchup is somewhat straightforward too, but the objectives are a bit different than in the Ragna matchup, so it changes the dynamic a lot. My personal Jin experience is mixed, we had some local players throughout the series, but no dedicated main that would find all the tech and options in the latest version. That said, I feel like Jin has a lot of options, and all the players have their own bag of gimmicks with him.

1. Your Objectives

Neither character can easily approach the other one, so you're both trying to play patiently around each others' ranges. You both kind of want to push the other closer to the corner, or into an unfavorable position without committing to anything too risky.

2. Neutral

Both Mu and Jin have really good range on their j.c, long range on the ground, projectiles, and their anti-airs have weaknesses. This creates a pretty interesting neutral/footsie game. I believe the hurtbox on Jin's j.c makes it hard to challenge with Mu's j.c and its bigger hurtbox, however, Mu's projectile game is more adapted to fight Jin's and take advantage afterwards.

Things they tend to do :

236a / j.236a : they usually to this when they're outside of range of normals, either to hit you out of an attempt to throw out a pre-emptive normal, to get you to block (which cancels stein fire), or to get you to try to avoid it and place you in an unfavorable position. In CPE, the untechable time seems longer, so be extra careful. It recovers pretty fast, so don't try to IAD over it on reaction. If they don't have 50 meter and you're on the ground, try to aim a 236a so it destroys it and keeps going (if they have 50 meter, ice wave super might punish you). If they do, you can place a stein and then jump over their projectile. If you were in the air, if you are about to fall into it, you can place a stein, airdash, and/or use 236d to stall over it. If it's directed straight for you and you're out of air options (this is odd though, try to keep an air option to avoid this situation), I think instant blocking it is the best.

j.c : the use of this one kind of varies depending on how they were jumping as they did it. It's usually defensive, in the sense that it places a big hitbox in front of them that's very hard to get through. Don't run into it, place a stein or use a special, or dash forward a bit then barrier, try to stay out of the range. 2c could call it out, but if they do something else instead, you're in a ton of recovery. They can also jump forward or airdash to air-to-air you with it. You want to anticipate its potential range and not commit to something risky (steins losing airdash options may make setting air steins much more risky in this matchup).

dash 5c/5d : these normals have decent range and hitboxes, probably their biggest threats in terms of ground-to-ground with decent startup. 5d has more range, but 5c is faster and has better reward on block. They usually respect Mu's 5c range and don't go for these that often, but if you haven't been using it much out of fear of his other options, they'll start using them.

2d : this move has great range and reward on hit and block, as well as not extending their hurtbox very far. They use it to call out projectiles, setting up stuff in the air, or just ground and air backdashes. Know its range and be super careful of it. It does have a lot of recovery, so if you stay mobile and unpredictable, the Jin may hesitate before trying it.

airdash j.2c : iirc this goes over our 5c and has a good hitbox. You can obviously anti-air if you anticipate. Just be aware of the range at which he can do it, and be careful when using 5c at that range. Pre-emptive j.c is also good against this.

So, I'd say Mu's tools that are strong in this matchup are 236a, steins, 236d, and 5c. 2b is ok at getting in if you feel they're respecting too much, CPE j.2c is most likely going to be great as well. His 2a low can low profile our jump ins, especially j.c or a misspaced j.b, new j.2c may solve this.

I don't think the hitboxes for these moves have changed since bbcse, so check these out to understand what I mean :

http://www.dustloop.com/guides/bbcse/hitbox/jin/j.C.html

http://www.dustloop.com/guides/bbcse/hitbox/mu/j.C.html

3. Their Offense

3.1 Pressure

Jin has a lot of tools for their pressure and a lot of moves that are + or jump cancel, I'll go over the more common ones :

6b (+3) : he can chain most normals into it, it moves him closer and is +, so if you just block he'll reset pressure. Since it's slow, you have time to DP it, maybe even 6a. Worst case, try to instant block it. Afterwards, he can do his ex special overhead, so expect that. It can also be used to beat throws, so option select throw techs are a good idea to use against Jin (1ABC).

6d (+12) : similar to 6b as its plus and most normals go into it. It's much slower, but also has more vertical reach and the hurtbox doesn't extend as much horizontally, so I believe they could bait our DP with it (if you're instant blocking you should be ok). It's so slow you can usually mash out of it with something, or even dash DP, so Jin players tend to not use it too much, but it is something if they get predictable with you can call out.

2d (+3) : similar to the above, except this one brings you closer to him and has a lot of range, usually done outside of our DP's range. Midscreen you can just backdash it. Corner I'd try to IB it.

5c/2c jump cancel high j.2c j.c : I don't believe we can anti air this, you can guess with a DP (or backdash if midscreen) but it's a guess. I'd have to try dash under maybe... if not try to IB and hold that.

5b > late chain 5c/mixup : 5b says its -6 on the frame data, so if you want to guess he'll do a mixup you can press a button, but as he can chain into things that allow him to keep pressure, it's a big risk.

6a : 19f overhead, luckily he can only chain into it from 2a, 5a, and 5b. He gets no damage without spending 50 meter, and it is -8 on block. Very hard to react to, but it's usually not worth the risk to guess he'll go low (2b) and eat a full combo.

j.214d : fast overhead, leads to a combo in the corner (or with another 25% for ex ice car). 22f startup, so reactable, but just don't forget about it. Honestly can't remember if it's plus or minus on block.

3.2 Okizeme/Resets

I'm not sure how much of this still applies to CPE

Most common midscreen air combo ender was j.d freeze. From there, he could :

-left right 5b air unblockable

-let you land then high/low with 6a/2b

-throw

-instant airdash j.d and cross you up again?

I don't know of a magic solution. Take a guess. Their resources can be a hint (50 meter, expect overhead). You can try an OS backdash if their timing isn't prefect (44~3AB, gives you either backdash or barrier), but if you mistime it you might get airdash.

If he ends his combo in the air special that knocks down,

In the corner, they could end a combo in 6d, and then either go for safejump, or airdash high/empty jump low. 6d forces stand, so you can't delay anything and have to guess. They also often end combos in double sekkajin which gives them a safejump j.2c, which I believe tags rolls as well, but you can delay your tech as to avoid this. Just don't delay too much or they'll otg you into a fresh combo, window isn't big.

There are also some combos where they will freeze you and reset into like 5c (hit) crush trigger (reset). If you see ice, late in a combo, be ready for /something/.

4. Your Offence

-His meterless DP has a slow startup (20f), so if you time a meaty correctly (2a or 2b generally, since they both have only 10f of recovery), you can recover in time his reversal. You can get a similar result by using 2a or 2b after a blocked projectile, but it's harder to do reliably imo. His 25% meter DP has 13f startup so you could also get the same result but the timing is much stricter and I don't recommend trying it. Note that the followup to that DP is unblockable if fully charged. Many Jin players tend to release it right before, in an attempt to catch a jump out or a button press between the hits. Backdash to avoid the situation if you're far enough midscreen, besides that I don't know of anything reliable you can do besides guess, the rewards are generally in your favor at least.

-2d can call out using 236a/236d/setting up too many steins from rather far, be careful.

-Ice Wave super can call out the same things much faster too, so be very careful of how you do pressure when he has 50 meter.

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I have next to no idea how to anti-air this guy. I'm assuming that 6A is my best bet if I want to do anything besides block?

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Early j.2c is hard to beat with 6a or 2c.

It'll cut the early extended hitbox of 2c and float over 6a.

Solutions: Backdash, crouch under it, or uppercut.

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2A/5A/DP are good against 6B startup if they're really obvious. And don't be afraid to DP after you block 6B if they just try to reset their pressure with it all day. They can bait it but a lot of Jins just think that move can reset their pressure forever.

If they make you block 2D from far away and you're still midscreen, just backdash out. It is +3 but usually they are too far away to really get anything started with it. They have to do a hard call out like just dashing forward afterward to punish it.

If they like to continue their pressure by jump cancelling a lot, snatch them out of the sky with airthrow. It's a bit easier to react to them doing so since only his 5C and 2C are jump cancellable on block now. But you have to make sure you react - don't want them to frame trap you with 6D or something into all the damage.

Air to air is almost like a mirror match since both chars have similar normals. You can jA or airthrow them out of jB/jC/j2C, and vice versa. I feel more comfortable staying at neutral and try not to challenge things unless the Jin is hellbent on flying around and pressing buttons without purpose.

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If they make you block 2D from far away and you're still midscreen, just backdash out. It is +3 but usually they are too far away to really get anything started with it. They have to do a hard call out like just dashing forward afterward to punish it.

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the only problem I see with this is that at higher lvls (if i can even say that of the Jins online these days) at that kind of distance you can really expect to eat a punishing D ice car -- I know if I dont jump alot and/or low block excessively that shit will get me and Ill be put into the corner or something stupid

excessive or even moderate backdashing in this match up is risky

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D ice car is an option, but kind of a derpy one because they have to commit to doing it to "punish" you in the first place. If you just block the D ice car they get rocked for trying too hard to punish your backdash. But it's definitely worth remembering as an option.

I don't think backdashing moderately is really that bad midscreen - Mu has a really good backdash, might as well put it to use until the Jin player shows they'll do something about it. I mean don't just do it 100% of the time but keep them honest with it.

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