Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

pochp

[CP] Mu vs Relius

Recommended Posts

This matchup is somewhat different. Both characters' have tools that interact in a very interesting way in the matchup. Definitely not straightforward. I have a good amount of experience in the matchup, but my results haven't been the best, so maybe my assertion of it is incorrect ;)

1. Your Objectives

Each player has to know how to deal with each others' tools or they get overrun. Neutral is a game of cat and mouse with a lot of movement. Once either character gets in it could be over for the other, as they both deal with each others' reversal options decently.

2. Neutral

I think one of the most important things to note (in general, but for this matchup in particular), is to not waste your second air option (doublejump/airdash). You will often end up in a situation where that is the only correct answer to escape(blocking will put you in the blender).

It's also important to note that while he has the doll summoned, she can block lasers for him. When she attacks, he goes in front, and if not she's in the back. I'd still recommend placing steins behind Relius if possible, as in those critical moments, she'll most likely be attacking. Even when she isn't summoned, Relius' normals are still something you have to respect.

-5b : ground-to-ground, is very fast for its range, and the hurtbox doesn't extend vertically, so it's hard to anticipate with a 2b. When he's at a range where he could do it, expect it, and backdash. 5c can prevent him from getting to that range, but he has a ton of other options to deal with that...

-j.b : feels like a circle of hitboxes around him, rather hard to challenge air-to-air unless it's with a well spaced j.c. Seriously respect this move, though I heard it may have been slightly nerfed in CPE.

-j.2d : great air-to-ground. I honestly don't know how to deal with this move, anything I try (5a, 6a, 2c) seems unreliable. Try to avoid being in a situation that can lead to this. Even without the doll summoned, he can summon mid-air to stall his momentum, and then either do a jump in normal or j.2d. Very hard to anti-air, dash under if you think he'll go for it, but be careful of j.b hitting behind him.

-214a : this move destroys projectiles and moves forward fast, hard to challenge. Try to instant block > 5a if relius is too far for dash 5b, which may cause her to unsummon (I think the window you have to do this depends on the spacing, so sometimes you can't), he can also go into 2d after which has armor, so if you hit the armor with your 5a, jump cancel.

-214b : jump back j.b to hit her before he can do 2d. If you don't do anything about it, he can either dash in or do a 2d afterwards. This move will track you on the ground and can be used to call out most grounded projectiles, kind of why 236a isn't great.

-214c : fraudulent at neutral (or desperate imo). 5a it, or superjump over. It will activate once it senses your hurtbox close by, so if you try to use a slower normal, you could get hit if you mistime it. If you panic and block it, he's in.

-22a/b/c : be careful at the ranges where these can come out of the ground, especially if you're trying to set up steins or totsuka. Not much of a threat, but still there.

-6d : this goes really far. Can't say exactly how much, but I recommend against using 5c for ground to ground when he has the doll out. He can also do 236a (dodge) 6d to call it out.

-j.214b : I guess this is a thing, he can call out anti-airs with it too whether or not the doll is summoned. Not quite as strong as j.d stall/j.2d, but much easier to use. If you expect it, just dash under, and anti-air the j.b that will most likely come.

Seems pretty overwhelming, but Relius himself has trouble dealing with some of Mu's tools.

-Air-to-air, our j.c is still very strong defensively, hard for him to go around it.

-Steins may have startup, with all the cancel options, it's hard for him to punish them, as long as you keep a cancel option available (this will be different in CPE and I don't know how the matchup will be).

-His doll has a gauge, steins don't. If you can avoid a few of his attempts to get in, he might be in trouble.

-His anti air isn't as good as some characters'. Especially when you've pinned him down with a laser (ex : hit him in the air, so his doll unsummons, he's out of air options, can't capitalize, but you know where he'll land), try to jump in on him without pressing a button. If he whiffs 2c because you land behind him or too far in front, you get a nice crouching punish.

3. His Offence

If he got you to block a normal but doesn't have the doll summoned, you still have a shot at avoiding the vortex. If he has a lot of meter at this point, he'll most likely try to summon. Most common strings to summon are either special cancelling a normal into 214a (ex: 5b 5c 214a) or 5d(ex: 5b 5d dash 5b). try to instant block > 5a if you think he'll go for 214a. mash some big button like 5c or 2c if you think he'll go for 5d. If you try to react to 5d you'll probably be too slow for a normal, but a DP could work, since there's a good chance they'll 5b after.

If he got you to block something and the doll is already out, you can't really escape. He will most likely do a string into 3c to jump cancel, but still look out for 6a or crush trigger in case (they're slow, you should be able to react). From there, there are 2 options, he will either do doll 6d or 2d, and if 3c hits he can convert either of these into a combo.

3c 6d : he'll either do a (possibly) gapless j.b after, or go for an airdash/low/throw mixup. This is a good opportunity to start learning fuzzy guard to jump out, just be aware of the airdash throw he could do. If he just does j.b (no mixup), there's a chance he'll land and then do dash jump j.2d to create a left right ambiguous mixup (that also baits throws somewhat). A good place to fuzzy jump.

3c 2d : no escape. Maybe you could DP rc between the two hits of 2d but I'm not sure what would happen. At least there's no gap so it'll most likely be an airdash/low mixup. You can try a counterassault here unless you think he'll bait, as there's a good chance they'll go for a mixup. This one consumes a bit more gauge, so at least he generally only runs this twice, I think?

Then there's the common situation where he'll pressure you without the doll, in order to build the gauge back. Only blocking here is bad, definitely try to escape, but be smart about it. He will try to bait your escapes (mash/jump/dp/backdash). Backdash is really good midscreen because he really needs to go out of the way to bait it, weakening other options. In the corner, escaping this can be hard...

- ~ 6c 41236b (reel in) : try to IB and dp before the 6c. You can mash out before the reel in hits you, jump, or DP it. It's only +1 so you can try to IB->button, or DP afterwards as well. If you block a full sequence of this, his doll meter is probably back.

-rising j.a : if he thinks you'll jump there's a good chance he'll try to catch you with j.a. It's multihit and he can chain into j.b land, do it again, or whatever. If he caught you with this, the doll is coming back. If he whiffs because you stayed on the ground, dash under.

-iad j.a/b : I guess he can only go into this from nothing or 3c (since it's his only jump cancel on block normal besides 5a, note it'll be 2c in CPE). It'll probably catch upback depending on timing, be ready and anti-air or DP (I think? haven't actually tested).

In general be careful that he can special cancel any normal into 236a to bait bursts or counterassaults, so don't consider them safe points even if he's below 50 meter.

A common CH punish combo with him involves 3c CH jump falling j.c, so it'll bait bursts, be patient with them. (not sure if this will still work with 2c in the next game)

If he does the doll super where she starts swinging multiple times, you can clash it with your DP then cancel into Ikutachi to escape.

4. Your Offence

If he has doll summoned while you're pressuring him, be super careful of 236a 2d (dodge into armor move), this will call out frame traps and any larger gap as well. It's a pretty stressful situation for both players, as his doll meter is also slowly depleting itself and will try to escape because he can.

If he doesn't have the doll summoned, have fun. Chain into 6c is risky as he can 236a it. If he has 50 meter, he can super to beat anything slow on our end like totsuka. His spin is still good for beating stuff like overhead, but stay unpredictable as always. You can throw it or punish the end of the recovery with a normal, it's quite long. Thankfully his backdash was nerfed a lot since CSE (and bbcp 1.0 I think), now it's still okay, use normals that recover fast like 2a, 2b, to stay safe.

His crouching blockstun hitbox extends high enough so you can do stuff like 2a 5a and 5a won't whiff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Relius matchup discussion taken from Mu skype chat.

[29/10/2013 10:40:05 PM] DaiAndOh: Thoughts on Relius matchup?

[29/10/2013 10:40:29 PM] DaiAndOh: I have a lot of trouble at the start of the match

[29/10/2013 10:41:25 PM] Harukasan: I haven't even seen a Relius yet

[29/10/2013 10:42:48 PM] Pedro Szaszkiewicz-Rodriguez: I superjump back at the start of the round at least once

[29/10/2013 10:43:48 PM] Pedro Szaszkiewicz-Rodriguez: haven't fought many relius players, but I feel like they need to go out of their way to call it out so it makes staying on the ground not as bad

[29/10/2013 10:47:15 PM] DaiAndOh: Hmmm doesn't feel that way to me

[29/10/2013 10:47:17 PM] DaiAndOh: *shrug*

[12:08:18 AM] Cor: How is he beating reverse iad

[12:08:45 AM] DaiAndOh: Rushing in with doll then I get scared -_-

[12:08:59 AM] Pedro Szaszkiewicz-Rodriguez: it's the other way around imo

[12:09:11 AM] Cor: She kind of beats him up

[12:10:10 AM] Cor: When he wheels you either are already airbourne or swing with 2b afterwords

[12:11:05 AM] Cor: Unless they're super godlike they're not going to know how to utilise 5b to a degree where he can actually fight her

[12:11:31 AM] Cor: 5c is really good in both doll matchups

[12:11:59 AM] Cor: Because doll hits cleave, thank you based system mechanics

[12:12:33 AM] DaiAndOh: He actually is very good, a better overall player than me no doubt :)

[12:12:48 AM] DaiAndOh: (not that i'm good at this game to begin with...)

[12:19:41 AM] Cor: 5b is a very good normal and tough to beat

[12:20:03 AM] Cor: It hits the sweetspot between 5c and 2b

[12:20:47 AM] Cor: Other moves like this are things like bang 5b, noel 5b, jesus kick

[12:22:57 AM] Cor: The only real option is to avoid that spacing like the plague

[12:23:16 AM] Cor: If you're closer you're in there and can beat him up

[12:23:52 AM] Cor: And at the furthur ranges he can't contest her

[12:24:27 AM] Pedro Szaszkiewicz-Rodriguez: oh I just meant that if he's got his doll on you it's because you were scared and once it's there there's not much you can do about it

[12:24:27 AM] Cor: What else...

[12:24:51 AM] Cor: Doll is annoying yeah

[12:25:47 AM] Cor: His only real mixup is throw

[12:26:12 AM] Cor: The low airdash stuff gets munched on by her uppercut

[12:26:46 AM] DaiAndOh: So I have to show no fear and not get put in the situation then

[12:26:51 AM] DaiAndOh: Watch out for 5b

[12:27:33 AM] Cor: Take confidence, its a hard matchup for him because she's a neutral bully

[12:27:45 AM] Cor: So you have to be hitting those buttons

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So Mu has really lulzy way to escape being locked down by Duos Bios: if you see Relius use the super, DP it, clash, and Ikutachi to get out for free. Of course, the Relius player can wait and block your Ikutachi to punish it, but it's worth trying out if the Relius player is unfamiliar with the matchup and assumes you'll just be locked down by it. This works against Carl's Rhapsody of Memories as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×