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mAc Chaos

[CP] Haku VS Valk: Grumpy Old Men

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You shouldn't have left dude. I was just starting to get into it. GG's nevertheless.

I need my daily Hakumen fix. Where are all the Hakumen players.

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The beginning of the match Valkenhayn wins both on the ground and in the air, so you're best bet is to simply back dash or wait to see what he's going to do. That's my primary observation, also you really feel the counter and hotaru nerfs in this matchup, but not as badly as against Relius, it's definitely an uphill battle somewhat.

Can't really say too much I didn't really play this matchup long enough. But I can say, is that don't rely on OD for a come back because you'll seldom find opportunities to blow him up with OD damage, you're better off just bursting because without 6d it's nigh impossible to break his pressure momentum now. So you have to play an even better neutral game to get in and stay on him indefinitely.

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Don't be afraid to use Yukikaze here. You'll need it.

Yukikaze is pretty much the only way to get out, though the netcode of this game has substantially improved since CSEX, you can't do things like IB. Many times I would even mash yukikaze but to no avail during Valk block strings. But I mean Hakumen, who is a "defensive" character has and will always get the short end of the stick when it comes to playing online, what can you do.

@yakuzu, it's frustating but not uphill, like Relius, in my opinion. Plus hearing the SixHeroes playing in the background kinda gets me hype. Valk and Hazama have always had very obnoxious neutral games and tools that give Hakumen a hard time.

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Just have to play solid D and run out his meter. If you're afraid of the high low you can upback, guess a jD or attempt to knock him out of the air. Remember wolf 5a does not hit low. Agito is good for getting past head invuln wolf 5b. Sweep is good for counterhitting his (normal) standing pokes.

Just some observations.

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Grab > Hop Hotaru will whiff on Valk. Fails in corner too.

 

Does not on Carl.

Shenanigans.

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Copy/pasted from directly from my notes.

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[General Thoughts]

Pretty boring matchup. The nerfed counters, so in the end it's easier to rush him down. As long as I play solid, it'll be fine.

[Round Start]

Hakumen is pretty limited, right? He only has one start to work with. Not really worth dice rolling unless they have a set pattern.

(Valk) - Backstep > wait and see, 4D > wait and see, IAD back jD, 5C, 3C, iad [jAA]

(Hakumen) - Backstep, 5C, 4C, 3C, Guren, IAD away

[Fullscreen Neutral]

Nothing much to note here besides the fact that Hakumen gains meter passively. So, unlike Litchi, unless I'm stalling to rebuild wolf meter, this situation shouldn't happen often.

[Midscreen Neutral]

  • Agito - destroys [5B]. Using rising [jA] and doing air Konig should counter it. Air Konig will also beat airdashes in general if done early enough. Confirm with the usual stuff. JC will beat air Konig, J2A will win sometimes.
  • JD - So, once you stop Agito reliably, you have to worry about this. It seems to have some sort of minimum height requirement (need to test???), but at the height they would do airdash Agito, they can do it anyways. Get just outside airdash Agito range > backstep > confirm situation, and react accordingly.
  • Ground normals - You can punish any whiffed held normals (6C, 4C) with Konig on reaction. 5C has 20F of recovery, but the hitbox is too good... or something. If they like jumping > doing X air normal > land 3c, position yourself for the air normals to whiff, and [4D > jB] the 3C.
  • Kishuu - [5C] this. You can't use Konig against this because the move is HB invul from 5-14.
  • General strategy - Pretty much, they are going to hop around to try to gain meter, while keeping Valk out. He has no low that reaches as far as jC, so optimal spacing would be from just outside jC range to just outside his IAD range. When he airdashes, look for Agito/jD. When he's on the ground, it'll depend on how many stars he has, but look for Kishuu and 5C. When approaching him directly, mix up [jC] and [5C] - if he counters (except for Yukikaze), you can 7D/4D appropriately and evade the counter. Brake or dash back in [jB] depending on the opponents habits.
[Hakumen's Back to the Corner]

Happens more often than not when he has 4 stars or more. Midscreen neutral applies here.

[Valkenhayn's Back to the Corner]

  • If he jumps/IAD's - Jaeger.
  • If he's approaching from the ground > sj > dj > moonlight > 7D or 9D. If you use 9D just peace out. If you use 7D, brake, look at Hakumen's icon, and move accordingly.
[Hakumen's Pressure]

Easier to deal with than CSEX.

  • 2B = -4
  • 5A = +3 but whiffs crouchers, can only really do this off a jump in.
  • 6A = -4 and can ONLY gatling into 6B. It is not special cancellable. His 2A is 7F startup so if you IB this, you can try to escape. 3C is 8F startup, but it's not an issue if you IB jump 6A.
  • 5B = Even. Dangerous normal.
  • 6B = Something like 18F(?). Anyway, you can't really react to it. 6A is the only gatling into this normal, but when done raw it's too fast. Possible to combo on CH. This move is also -4 so IB'ing the second hit is important (and easy after blocking the first hit).
  • Tsubaki - fastest dash Tsubaki this game is 21F (should be able to react), tk Tsubaki is 19F (probably can't realistically react. A standing late throw tech (whatever method, as long as it's not raw B+C) should deal with this.
  • Zantetsu - same usual netplay shit.
  • Kishuu - Goes through CA, burst. Kishuu > Enma is FAST!!! But, it's only jump cancellable, so no worries.
  • Renka - Move that kind of screws IB timing for some reason (I'm bad). +1. Again, barrier helps with this.
  • Agito - They'll use dash Agito and IAD Agito for shenanigans. While I don't feel like it's "ambiguous" per se, it does give him a falling normal, that on stand guard would give him 5A into whatever. After blocking, jump IB or backstep.
  • Summary - really, most of what he has is 2A > try to throw you/TRM you or catch whatever method you want to use to disrespect. Pay attention to his stars and be patient! And watch out for 6B! Barrier IB >>>>
[Valkenhayn's Pressure]

The usual shit. It's worth noting that it's way too hard to 4D/7D [JA] if he counters. Also, he can't counter [jA] after [5C] unless he does Yukikaze, or IB's [5C]. As usual, [5C > brake 5C] stops this. Brake Himmel has extra merit vs him as well.

[setplay]

  • If Hakumen has less than 4 Stars - br[JA]. No reason to do ANYTHING ELSE. Spaced properly, Hotaru should whiff, 2D loses, and all counters lose since they don't have 1st frame catch.
  • If Hakumen has more than 4 Stars - need to mixups br[JA], [5C], 3C, rising [JC], and throws. Yukikaze alone legitimizes all his other options. If you don't feel like dice rolling, stand directly in his face (where you could do all of the above stuff), and then backstep/walk away/IAD away. When they start doing wake up jump, it opens up doing meaty lows again.
  • [5C] - If he has less than 4 stars, a spaced [5C] > 4D will make counter whiff, and you'll only get hit by the 2nd hit of 6B if he decides to do it. If you're point blank, 7D. Both hits of 6B will hit.
  • [jC] - It's kind of hard to meaty this, but spaced properly it'll make Hotaru whiff too.
Straight from enemy territory.

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So guys one of the probs i have in this match is its pretty hard to even approach human valk on the ground. His straight kick im assuming 5C seems to stuff everthing and is hard to whiff punish. Once in a while i can command dash > 2B/5B > into combo but its deff ballsy. Any tips if approaching him?

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Well after getting bodied 1-22 yesterday against Valkenhayn; human Valk isn't that hard to approach, you can jump over his 5C with J.B.

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