[CP] Relius Clover vs Mu-12

[TD]

Discuss the Mu matchup here.

The Neutral Game

Long Range: Your Tools vs Her Tools

Medium Range: Your Tools vs Her Tools

Close Quarters: Your Tools vs Her Tools

In The Air: Your Tools vs Her Tools

Offense

Your Offense:

Her Offense:

Defense

Your Defense:

Her Defense:

Gimmicks and Resets

Match Summary

[NecroTheReaper]

Ok, I don't have any issues with this matchup except... laser spam. How does one beat it? Get lucky with a 22C? Cuz it feels like these damn things multiply like rabbits. 214B isn't fast enough for that BS xD

[bakahyl]

Ok, I don't have any issues with this matchup except... laser spam. How does one beat it? Get lucky with a 22C? Cuz it feels like these damn things multiply like rabbits. 214B isn't fast enough for that BS xD

Don't let her get away so that she can't start her laser fortress? Because those steins take quite some time to set up

22c is not reliable because Mu's steins are jump cancelable and you will completely whiff her if she was setting steins in the air.

214b is both too slow and can be easily hit out of with her j.c, likewise with the right spacing Mu can just as easily swat away Val Tus and Val Lanto with her 5c or j.c

[NecroTheReaper]

Ok, so say I generally always know that every Mu player I've gone up against has always opened with 5C. Is there any way you can call this out from starting positions? Generally a backstep is enough to avoid, but I wanna be able to get in on her when she misses such an easy to recognize move @.@

[bakahyl]

Ok, so say I generally always know that every Mu player I've gone up against has always opened with 5C. Is there any way you can call this out from starting positions? Generally a backstep is enough to avoid, but I wanna be able to get in on her when she misses such an easy to recognize move @.@

In extend Relius' 5b will sometimes beat or trade with it at the start of the round, anyway you can try it out eventhough it will lose to j.2c or most jump-ins at the beginning

[NecroTheReaper]

Jump ins with Mu are a bit risky though since her only good air to ground is slow. All other jump ins are obvious and/or easy to get yourself that nice 2C FC. Its mostly the 5C I was worried about since it gave her enough time to jump away and troll with lasers xD. Btw, is there a gap big enough in the 5C>6C gatling of hers to ley through? Backstep sometimes gets clipped during active frames and I really want that punish lol

[bakahyl]

Jump ins with Mu are a bit risky though since her only good air to ground is slow. All other jump ins are obvious and/or easy to get yourself that nice 2C FC. Its mostly the 5C I was worried about since it gave her enough time to jump away and troll with lasers xD. Btw, is there a gap big enough in the 5C>6C gatling of hers to ley through? Backstep sometimes gets clipped during active frames and I really want that punish lol

Mu's j.b is not that bad as a jump-in

The gap between 5c and 6c is roughly 2 frames, eventhough you won't punish her with led ley since her recovery on 6c is 42 frames and your recovery on led ley is 37 and you have to take into account the pushback caused with her 5c as well

edit: unless the Mu was stupidly doing 5c>6c at very close range

[TD]

You can instant block the 5c and ley through the 6c. It isn't punishable at longer ranges but you're in a prime position to start your offense in a number of ways.

Ways to start the round:

Instant 5b does hit mu sometimes due to the extended hurtbox. Not much to say, your reward is pretty much none distant for hitting this and you just have to start your offense.

Instant ley beats 5c at a safer rate. Again, reward is not in his favor.

Instant super jump should get over 5c and most other stuff unless they call it out.

These starting moves may seem pointless at first, but the point is to get them to stop using 5c so you can do your favorite start: (5d) 214a.

When I say instant, I mean buffering the command in right as the announcer finishes saying action.

[NecroTheReaper]

Would backstepping the 5C and doin 214A/B beat out a second 5C if they were trying to buffer into 6C if it hit? Usually when I see someone open with 5C and I backstep, another 5C is right there again. Should I take the opportunity for IAD pressure or kick it off with ignis?

[bakahyl]

You can instant block the 5c and ley through the 6c. It isn't punishable at longer ranges but you're in a prime position to start your offense in a number of ways.

Ways to start the round:

Instant 5b does hit mu sometimes due to the extended hurtbox. Not much to say, your reward is pretty much none distant for hitting this and you just have to start your offense.

Instant ley beats 5c at a safer rate. Again, reward is not in his favor.

Instant super jump should get over 5c and most other stuff unless they call it out.

These starting moves may seem pointless at first, but the point is to get them to stop using 5c so you can do your favorite start: (5d) 214a.

When I say instant, I mean buffering the command in right as the announcer finishes saying action.

I would say on at the start of the round on CH with your 5b vs Mu's 5c, you can easily throw out a lanto to force Mu blocking and start your pressure. 5b at the start can be usefull

Led ley is not that effective at the start, because Mu can throw out another 5c while you are recovering from the led ley (startup 12f and recovery 20f vs your 37f led ley) and you don't have ignis out yet to cover it

However Relius' 5b and iad (5c beats an iad w/e, i sometimes see some players do that) and super jump at the start of the round can be beaten with Mu's j.2c, but j.2c can be beaten with a lanto or Id Lauger (the latter is not really recommend unless you know that your opponent does that)

[TD]

Parts in bold.

I would say on at the start of the round on CH with your 5b vs Mu's 5c, you can easily throw out a lanto to force Mu blocking and start your pressure. 5b at the start can be usefull

that's what I said. Or was supposed to say ( damn iPhone autocorrect) by reward being non existant I mean you won't be getting a combo and will just need to ride the momentum.

Led ley is not that effective at the start, because Mu can throw out another 5c while you are recovering from the led ley (startup 12f and recovery 20f vs your 37f led ley) and you don't have ignis out yet to cover it

good to know.

However Relius' 5b and iad (5c beats an iad w/e, i sometimes see some players do that) and super jump at the start of the round can be beaten with Mu's j.2c, but j.2c can be beaten with a lanto or Id Lauger (the latter is not really recommend unless you know that your opponent does that)

I'm not trying to imply that relius has an end-all to round start vs mu, he definitely does not. His best starter arguably is 214a so he can start pressure, and mu's 5c beats this and several other options. So it's more about doing the options that do beat or at least get away from 5c so the mu can attempt a callout using something other than 5c. Because it's not in his favor, it's more difficult for him to win round start but it is possible if he gets her to stop using her best tool in that situation.