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DerQ

[CP] Amane Critique thread - Show me your dance moves

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I'll be the first and post a match from last week's local tournament. Get at me http://www.twitch.tv/bibiquadium/c/3182243?t=39m48s

You have a solid pressure game going and your movement is pretty good as well. I feel like in this match you spent a lot of time chasing Rachel down. While it is important that Amane stays on the offensive because he has such good pressure, its also important to remember that his normal have amazing range. It is something that they need to respect if they want to sit on the other side of the screen. Sometimes it is good to just chill and play the poking game; make your opponent get impatient make dumb decisions. Overall solid play, that match up is not fun unless you like blocking lol.

Here are some casual matches of me at a recent local gathering. Not gonna lie, I am mostly running on fundamentals in these matches so my game is lacking a lot. It's what I get for not getting time in training mode for the first week of the game :(

http://www.twitch.tv/milehighburst/b/475731430?t=19m7s

19:07 - Hellfire (Amane) vs Tage*Proto (Terumi)

26:54 - Hellfire (Amane) vs NarNar (Azrael/Arakune)

33:00 - Hellfire (Amane) vs Ryyudo (Litchi)

http://www.twitch.tv/milehighburst/b/475731430?t=1h27m30s

Hellfire (Amane) vs MiracleKnight (Izayoi)

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Thanks for the heads up, it's funny because right after the match I would be really happy overall of how I adjusted my gameplan from the day before to just chill from fullscreen and I could tell often that I believed I would be allowed to go in and wasn't actually the case. Have someone else point that when I aimed for the opposite still shows there's work to do there. Now for for your matches :D

Since you mention fundamentals' all you used there, I'll try and limit it to that. I feel like you have an urge to do something pro-active. That means either press buttons or throw a C poke to zone/harass. It's decisions that are best described as "Spur of the moment". I don't know if you'd agree that you might have this tendency or not. It wouldn't be all that surprising since actually playing Amane is still very new and fresh.

But to be more specific, you direct your train of thoughts to stuff that you'd easily assume in the moment will work or has value. During pressure you go for 5D quite often, you throw out j.C and 5C as soon as you are close or in range of, throwing out goukai from fullscreen, etc. I'll keep it to the last one as it's really the one thing that you used a lot and that illustrates the point I wanna make. In the first terumi match, second round, you have drill very close to 3, he's low on life and you send goukai from fullscreen while he's doing nothing. From it, you got him to lose about 200 damage and drain 20% of his barrier at the cost of your drill level and 50 meter. What did you gain from doing that? I guess the goal I would recommend is to avoid having these become a habit by taking care of it now, rewatch a match and just ask yourself "If I throw this move, what is the potential reward for the risk involved ? (Hit confirm difficulty, risk at neutral, likelyhood to happen, ressources spent)" That would direct the flow of your training room investment and filter out these decisions I like to call "Spur of the moment". I call them that because I'd go for the same thing on week 1.

Oh and you're not playing naoto, your anti-air is good ;)

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I need to record some of my matches when I'm playing so i can hear some things I need to do differently.

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Few casuals matches from last thursday meetup we had were streamed

http://www.twitch.tv/bibiquadium/b/479785801?t=102m45s

I need to record some of my matches when I'm playing so i can hear some things I need to do differently.

Shoutouts to online (or lobby) matches saving replays. Another way to make this maybe easier and/or possible would be to just go online at a similar time in a lobby and just watch each other play. Actually, the little Amane skype group would be perfect to set up this kind of stuff. If you want to join it, just add me on skype. My username is g1derq.

There's one thing I'll focus on because I believe the solution that could be applied is pretty straightforward compared to the rest. So you managed to hit the Terumi a few times, but you've never gained the control of the match from it. All those hits felt "shortsighted". By that I mean that it felt like you are not converting into something that puts you again in a good position. You had many scrap hits with no stable followup or visible attempts of it. Having a basic idea of how to go beyond just the hit into a simple knockdown from the normals you use could help you a lot. The reason why I believe it'd that is because you did do a full corner throw combo, but you barely converted anything else into a stable knockdown. You had the idea on how to execute the combo, but not on how to get something going from other hits or blocked attacks.

So I'd rewatch the replay and just looked for times at which you hit the opponent, but that didn't convert. The first video is full of that and the second one had more decisions at neutral that simply had no way or very little chance of actually hitting and end up meaningful after hitting. Fullscreen 6A whiff was a good example

Spot these situations and try to see if they also happen in some of your other matches or if you become self-aware of it while playing, there wasn't really one that was particularly obvious from just these 2 matches. If you do spot one, just go replicate a similar scenario in training mode and practice the hit confirms one by one as they come as there's a lot of them.

Other than that, you seem very respecting of the opponent's pressure/mixup game to your disadvantage. Not saying just mash through the opponent's stuff, but you did get grab quite a lot. Defense in general is hard to improve, but in the specific case, just try jumping out and escaping now and then.

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Just a little heads up, you can link twitch replays using a timestamp if you didn't know. Just add ?t=17m0s or the actual timestamp of your match

You played both matches in a very similar manner. Lots of jumps, lots of zettou, always being too high in the air to get caught, minimizing risks, etc.

Though there's two little things I could see working more or less against you. In the first match, Jin would actually let you do it and even let you Zettou from fullscreen which worked nicely, but if you look in the second match, Bang is not letting you get that space at all and he's actually going pretty balls deep trying to catch jump outs or airdashing at you. He didn't allow it, yet you try to still get that space.

Second, adopting that playstyle and never have breathing room will tense you up to an extent. Most conversions from hits when playing that way are harder because you're busy spending a lot of attention avoiding the other player. Most of your conversions were indeed less stable or complete in that second match. It felt like you were much more nervous, due to those factors and playing two matches in a row I'd say. But considering the way Bang moved at neutral, I'd be pretty confident to anti-air him if I had to play him. Good shit using Hariken against Bang to counter drive.

So if I had to sum it up, you played both matches the same way with one player allowing you to do so and the other making it really hard on you to do so. Maybe ask yourself : Will this matchup/player let me run this gameplan? (which is hard to get right in just one match)

Oh and btw, if I say something, I'm open to push the discussion a bit further. A lot of times, I'm running on an assumption on your mindset which could be completely off and I'd like you to let me know if that's the case. Like the nervousness call for your match against Bang for instance

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I feel like if they let you play the distance game like Jin was, then using your C normals more than you were can be very beneficial. For the Bang match, you really need to learn to recognize whiffs and punish openings when on defense. You let probably 9-12k damage slip away for not punishing those 6c whiffs hard. Another thing against that particular Bang would have been to get into Hariken stance and then cancel to try and make him whiff a wakeup D move since he had done wakeup D to get out of drill pressure once already. You should also work on converting CH j.b air-to-air. The easiest thing is just going into j.2c2>j.236a/b>j.b3>dj.jb3 if you still have the options>j.2c2>j.236c. Sometimes you can also land into 5b3 and get full ground combos too. I agree with Derq that you likely could have played a better ground game against the Bang since he loved IAD and likely would have eaten tons of CH 6a. In general I think you should work on your ground game since you spent almost all of both matches in the air and I feel that will hurt you in the long run in some matchups.

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@DerQ, I'd say that I have a bad habit of playing all matches in the same playstyle (working on breaking this though). Bang in general, I get nervous playing against. I do get tense when I don't have space, cause half the time I don't know how to react. I agree with what you're saying overall though. I have a problem when on the defense and also need to recognize what to do in specific match ups.

@STenSatsu, after re watching, you're right about me not punishing the whiffs. I feel like its just me not know the matchup and not really expecting a bang to whiff so much times when on offense. It caught me by surprise and I didn't know how to react honestly.

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If you havn't read it (and might be interested), might want to check Thelo's quick guide to reaction based defense. It's really small, straight to the point and good food for thought.

I'd say the three things I'd watch for at neutral against Bang after playing a bit is to be on the lookout for nails, ground and air approach attempts.

A nail is reactable and lets you know where Bang will be on the screen after throwing it.

Air approaches can more or less be dealt with if confident in your ground game.

Ground to ground game wouldn't be easy to really stand your ground, so I wouldn't fight it.

These are mostly ideas though, I'll try and apply it that way against my local Bangs this week

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http://www.twitch.tv/st1ckbug/b/485951968

Sets that were streamed at NEC. 13:20* is my first set with Lord Knight, 55:15 is my only singles match vs. Cirno, 5:46:30 is my second set against Lord Knight. First set is shit but people were cheering for some reason, second is better but I can already see a lot of mistakes I made out of nervousness, third was much better I think but still. I let him mash 2A out of going in with jB way too much, kept mistiming my pressure.

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Good stuff man, I really like your pressure you were putting in some real work, i liked your confirms off random air hits too i need to start doing that too :D

Litchi is too brutal though, one clean hit is hella damage and you're in the corner for stupid mixups :/

Love the reset in the platinum set! im def stealing that haha. Plat is crazy though I've yet to play a Plat thats as good as Cirno so I cant say much about that, i wouldve gotten hit by all of that nonsense he was throwing out >.>

I noticed a few instances where you got a CH 5b 5D or CH 5D where you couldve set up a Hariken, dunno if u purposely didnt do it or werent really looking for it.

I'd recommend more use of 6B maybe? there were times where the opponent where using 2As and you couldve blown that up for a fatal combo. Its a good move.

Good stuff overall, I like your Amane thats the level where I at least want to be right now. You can only up from here.

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I only watched the second LK set, but I think you should have thrown a bit more. I hardly ever saw you go for throw in that particular set so you basically never hit a fatal 6b. You also go 236a>j.b3>j.a every time it seems. Outside of those 2 pieces and working on CH confirms under pressure, the matches seemed quite good and beating LK's Litchi is quite the accomplishment.

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A long set between me and a local Kagura player that some may or may not have heard of from the old GG scene. Would really love some critiquing because I feel like I am definitely leveling up, but I'm gradually slowing down and I don't want that to happen lol. (Sorry about the very low sound on this video.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_M6F78ds7U

MHB|Hellfire (Amane) vs KingLowTier (Kagura)

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A long set between me and a local Kagura player that some may or may not have heard of from the old GG scene. Would really love some critiquing because I feel like I am definitely leveling up, but I'm gradually slowing down and I don't want that to happen lol. (Sorry about the very low sound on this video.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_M6F78ds7U

MHB|Hellfire (Amane) vs KingLowTier (Kagura)

There are some things i'd suggest you add to your gameplan/work on and here it is:

I like how you went for corner gekiren reset, just work on comboing after it cause you don't wanna drop good damage. (Although he rolled into death lol)

When you got the corner carry and just stood there, you reset neutral and let your opponent out of there for free. On wallstick you could just do 6D for free level 3 drill and still have corner control.

Another problem was this scenario. I see already that you'll get a combo that goes like ... > 5D and not place a hariken drill after. Right here you could've did that but instead you paused and then just did 6D. The Kagura could have easily punished you for trying that. But if you did place a hariken drill that would've ensured the blocked 6D (Even though you got it in the end)

In this combo route, since there was a 2A (and possibly the jB starter, not sure), the 3C > Raibu > RC > 5C(2) > 6C(2) doesn't work. Instead replace 6C with Gekiren and try to continue pressure on wakeup. If they try to tech roll you could punish by fabhopping and then catching the roll with jB.

Yay you finally did it xD As I said, you get alot of 5D hits but don't ensure your oki. If you're not going to go for drill after 5D you could also just fabhop in and continue pressure as they recover from stagger. Just at least do something that benefits you and won't reset neutral. (You always want to be in control) Also even like here after you clipped him in the air with 5D you could use B hariken drill to keep him in the corner. Just try to be aware of these situations and also be aware of how far to place your drill when you can. I noticed sometimes when you tried to use hariken drills in earlier matches you would use a drill that is no where near him and thats very punishable so learn how to space it.

Try to work on confirming ? Idk this match had a plethora of dropped confirms and seemed sloppy overall.

Work on this combo, you dropped the Gekiren > RC > 2C multiple times in the set. If you can't complete it you miss out on really good damage and 50 meter which is not good at all :/

Try to rapid when your opponent blocks your j2B from a height like that. If I could recall its easily punishable at that height, and if you do rapid it you can just continue pressure. You had plenty of meter regardless so don't let it just sit there.

And nice way to end the set, taking that match with practically a double perfect.

One more thing I want to say is I notice you don't really focus on getting/keeping the opponent in the corner. Amane's corner game can be deadly and always a position I try to get myself into. Also again work on confirms, and combos cause it seems like you lost alot of damage oppurtunity. But overall your Amane play isn't bad and looks like it can only get better.

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Got some vids coming. I'm not very good with him, still can't do 623c consistently and no idea how to play full screen or midrange with him. I'll post them either tonight or tomorrow, and will edit this post with them. Probably not a huge batch, maybe 3 or 4. As thorough as possible please because I really have no idea what I'm doing outside of zettou xn and drill shenanigans.

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One of our local players here wanted to play a FT5 against everyone. He is another Kagura player (all my match footage seems to be against this character lol). I feel like I played overall pretty solid, but I also feel like my movement is really lacking. Any sort of criticizing would be much appreciated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5A-fBOR7dk

Hellfire (Amane) vs KrsJin (Kagura)

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Watched the whole thing. Here's thoughts in no particular order:

-There are a considerable amount of hitconfirms that leads to damage, but goes back to neutral. The most glaring offender is your use of j.2B > Hop > j.B > j.C > j.6C > j.2C > Gosei whiff. The idea of using j.2B against Kagura's approach drives is smart, didn't think of that and it works wonderfully asides from looking tough to convert. I would suggest just adjusting the confirm to make sure you get a knockdown. j.C > j.6C > j.2B > Gosei would give damage really close to what you're trying to do. Maybe try and hop in the same direction from the first j.2B? The chances of Kagura going behind you with one of his drive if you're trying to beat those seems like it'd be low. Why not always hop backwards from j.2b? Or spending resources to make sure you convert could be an idea considering how many times it happened. j.2B > Rapid > 5B > 5C > etc. is good damage. j.2B > OD > j.2B > 5B > 5C > 6C > 2D is also easy 4k+ if you're around 70-60% health. Last possibility is say fuck damage and go for knockdown. J.2B > gosei or j.2B > Hop > j.2B > gosei, etc.

I saw you go for 6C > 6A > j.B routes when the opponent is slightly high, sometimes rendering the route impossible or way harder. It didn't play as much as the one above, but still part of where some missed damage and knockdowns might happens.

I tried pinning down a reason for your loss in this round at random and you have a good control of neutral throughout the whole game, but never go into a knockdown. Doing so would have won you the round, your pressure game is definitely good enough to give you more mileage than your neutral game I would say.

-Speaking of pressure, I would often see you go for 2C > 5C and it would whiff because Kagura is crouching. I also like throwing out 5C just in case they upback or because if it hits I get something I want. But if the guy just crouches your 2C and stays there, doing 5C just trades your turn to press buttons. Maybe I'm self projecting because I had this realization at our monthly yesterday, but it's not because I want to hit with 5C in pressure that the other player will do the decision that allows for that happen. That's especially true once they get used to playing Amane. As a matter of fact, rewatching some matches while thinking about it, only very rarely will Kagura stand up or upback after a block 2C. You are hitting him with 5C at neutral, but not from blocked 2C > 5C.

-I would have wanted to find a bit more regarding movement, but there's wasn't super obvious stuff that I noticed. I see you using a lot of airdashes though. That might not be a bad idea, but it makes hitconfirming of your air hits and air normals even more difficult than it already is. The way you used them, I'd rather just use a hop. You have forward momentum like jump iAD, makes your j.B better if you want to start pressure as you'll be lower to the ground.

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A local friend recorded matches from a recent tournament. The turnout was really disappointing but most of our best players were there and each set is 5 matches long.

Me vs Skeletal Minion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrxWjLtALhE&feature=youtu.be

Me vs SG: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BgjU2cVuWA&feature=youtu.be

I'm having a lot of trouble with the Litchi match-up. I need to get better at avoiding situations that let her get in and IB Barrier to get her out.

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Biggest thing from watching the Litchi matchup is you almost never attempt to anti-air her. 6a is fantastic and gives you good rewards on CH. You really should go for it more.

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Well, all the j.D CH Litchi got on you were 5C or 6A attempts? I'm guessing 6A considering Litchi always went high in the air with an air dash, letting you plenty of time to react to everything but j.D. Maybe avoid anti-air on her at a certain height? Low j.D were rarely a thing.

In that Litchi set, trying to figure out what was going on was a big blur. Litchi wanted to set the staff and do her stuff, the way you moved made it look like such on your end too. I failed to see more than that tbh and since I don't know how much you're used to playing Litchi, not sure I can say anything worthwhile.

In the Hakumen set, I noticed you backdash (nervously) so much that it's actually hurting you. Kishuu simply catches up w/ Amane's backdash. Many times, he'd just double the distance and grab you or use the followup and hit you. You were also backdashing even if full screen when Kishuu's not even in range. I get that you don't want to deal with that move, but you're pushing yourself in the corner / getting hit while doing so too easily. I don't know what you might have tried in that regards and I'm curious of it since you might have more Hakumen experience than I do. Mostly just ideas, but why not use hops now and then over backdash. More freedom not to push yourself too easily in the corner, covers slightly more distance than backdash. Call it out and jump + hop forward to go above Hakumen. If he hits you in the process, can he convert into anything worthwhile if you're so high in the air?

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Lows beat it clean and 3c is Amane's longest normal, with decent recovery and ever a slight low profile on air dashes and such. That is probably the go to move for punishing Haku in neutral. That and 2c. I think you could have used more 3c as well over jc because I believe even that could be punished by kishuu though it may beat other things haku might do.

I watched some of the haku set (obv), funny I also thought you were nervous eshi. Personally I think amane has an easier time vs haku in the neutral than other chars. If you're going to play the ground game though, best to be on point, as amane is a lot easier to catch when grounded. I think you should hop too, maybe stay in the air longer with super jump zettou/ double zettous.

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It's not really that I was nervous so much that I've played skeletal so much that I know exactly what I can't get away with. If I use C attacks normally, he counters everything on reaction for meter or yukikaze. if I go in too hard then I get countered, if I try to psychic hard bait counter then he might get a chance to start offense instead. I decided to approach the match-up by staying just outside of 3C range and baiting hakumen into whiffing pokes, getting level 3 drill whenever possible because it helps so much. I definitely did catch him doing kishuu with 3C sometimes. DerQ's right that I greatly underestimated the range on the Kishuu follow-up and kept getting hit out of backdash. I should've done 3C/2B more instead.

Litchi is a huge ?????? to me, SG is the first strong one I've had long sets with and it feels like I have to be floaty as fuck and not get pinned down. But her tools in neutral are pretty strong too. I could've hard called out him jumping with 6C after blocked 5D's and such, it didn't occur to me. I try to AA her with jA over 6A because it seems to fail less often.

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fiiinally got around to some decent vids. the ones l were going to post before werent very good ( l even have one in the bunch im about to copypasta).

l realise what l need to advance with him is some critique, so any optimal stuff you guys feel like l should be doing please let me know :thumbu:

anyway

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmMseDitp9w&feature=c4-overview&list=UUNBX1Ui3mAxz6ScikK9xEyQ :JI:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLmdccNM0vk&feature=c4-overview&list=UUNBX1Ui3mAxz6ScikK9xEyQ :RG:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgKrJKoYiSk&feature=c4-overview&list=UUNBX1Ui3mAxz6ScikK9xEyQ :KO:

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