[CP] Platinum vs Azrael

[Moy_X7]

Match Start

Neutral

Full Screen
Long-Mid Range
Point Blank

Offense and Defense

Your Offense vs His Defense
His Offense vs Your Defense

Gimmicks and Miscellaneous Info

Gimmicks
Misc. Info

Frame Advantage, Disadvantage, and Punishes

Frame Advantage
Frame Disadvantage
Punishes

Summary

[InWithTheAshes]

Alright, so I have some notes on this matchup due towards a large set of offline games played with a local Az. However, do consider my circumstances of both not having access to a stick and not having ownership of the game at the time, and therefore only having 45 minutes or so of training mode to work out some (suboptimal) BnBs:

* In neutral, 5B range seems to be where to place yourself: I don't think he has anything faster than it that also reaches as long. Thankfully, you move quicker and more freely than he does, so actually getting to this range from a longer distance doesn't really look to be hard. Missiles can also be helpful despite Growler: Even if he absorbs them and thus gains the guardpoint until he recovers, he has in doing so given you a large amount of time to place yourself wherever you want, which is always helpful~

* When on the defence, best thing to do is just exercise caution: He has lots of things that are +, coupled with some efficient frame traps, meaning mashing really isn't that fine an option. considering the damage he can gain from it. However, his actual mixup isn't really that strong: Both dash cross up > 2A and his fastest standing overhead (5D) are relatively quick, but still perfectly reactable (perhaps not with crossup > 5A, but that misses on crouching) unless you're on netplay/a lagging setup, and any overhead attempt attempt is negative on block and uncancellable without meter, meaning that you can safely try to escape afterwards (jumping back and out seems to work a lot, considering his anti air seems rather ineffective). Of course, there is still a chance that you'll get caught out, so it's not as if it's nothing to be scared of, but if you're confident in your blocking, it seems helpful to stay put.

* Missile/bomb oki is basically a no because of growler (unless you can time them as to make them hit before the absorption activates), but bubble oki can still work: Partly because it seems more likely to hit him before the guardpoint activates and therefore allowing you to punish, but also that, although I'm not entirely sure if this is a gimmick or legitimate tactic, you can switch between A bubble and B bubble to bait it: With A bubble, it can simply float diagonally above him without touching his hitbox, gaining you a free combo, while B bubble obviously initiates the oki.

* Unfortunate news: I think he can react to 3C on block with BHS and punish. The Az only discovered this late into the set, and I don't think was presented with the opportunity to do so again, so I'm not entirely sure if 3C is reactable enough, but 3C's startup + blockstun seems to be long enough for him to do so.

I'm not going to give a verdict on who is advantageous in this matchup, not only because it was only one day's playing, but because of the aforementioned conditions: It seems like slightly favourable for him, if only because he generally does excessive damage when he gets a hit compared to you, but it could easily be something different.

[Tari]

BHS shouldn't be fast enough to punish 3C unless he IB'd it (assuming our wiki frame datas are all correct). That said, 3C should probably be staggered if you use it on block, anyway, since it's tends to end your pressure.

If he does IB it, you can actually just cancel into a 236A~A and fatal him out of it. Pretty yolo, but eh. I suspect you're more likely to have Azrael's opt to just begin their pressure if you do 3C, rather than attempt to punish it with a super.

[InWithTheAshes]

BHS shouldn't be fast enough to punish 3C unless he IB'd it (assuming our wiki frame datas are all correct). That said, 3C should probably be staggered if you use it on block, anyway, since it's tends to end your pressure.

If he does IB it, you can actually just cancel into a 236A~A and fatal him out of it. Pretty yolo, but eh. I suspect you're more likely to have Azrael's opt to just begin their pressure if you do 3C, rather than attempt to punish it with a super.

IB may have actually been what happened: Like I said, he only performed it once, so I wasn't entirely sure as to whether it was correct. I would still like somebody to test, but it's understandable if nobody wants to considering the frame data doesn't match it.

Concerning using 3C to end pressure, I know it's minus, but if used at the end of a string, the result is that the opponent can be pushed too far to connect with anything, especially within the case of somebody like Azrael with short range (although maybe this is less an effective option and more just an unfavourable habit of mine). Still, looking back at it, he could just 236A toward you after wards(5 frames where you're able to act), although not having possession of the game I'm not sure if it would travel enough to reach you after the end of a string.

[Seiska]

This matchup seems to require somewhat more patience than most matchups and seems to be pretty neutral game heavy for platinum. Compared to Platinum he deals pretty heavy damage from many of his confirms, especially if he has managed to land a weakpoint or two. With 2 weakpoints he even has unblockable setup where he kicks you to blockstun and uses his unblockable distortion to blast trough. There's not much you can do against this, except if you have enough meter to counter-assault it.

Since Azrael has pretty nasty frame-trap stuff and can use his dash to really mess up with your blocking, it's best not to let him in closer than 5B range. From Azreal players point of view platinum has this BOX shaped area around her, which she can protect with her attacks (2B, 5B, 6A, 2C) and Azrael needs to get inside that box to start with his pressure. From my understanding his tools to do this aren't the best, as Gustaf Buster is far from impossible to IB > 5A from that range and 6A works pretty well against jump-ins.

Azrael can't run, so he relies a lot to his forward dash and moves like gustaf buster and most of these lose to Mami Circular, so it's a bit easier and safer to make reads on your opponent but having enough meter for RC is recommended as without you'll usually be exactly where Azrael want's you to be. Due to his limited movement options Bombs and presents are actually pretty useful for this matchup on neutral, but don't throw them directly at him as he'll likely just use growler, but when used defensively (4D, 214D) and he just might run to them since he's the one that needs to get really close in this matchup not you. Ground missiles feel a bit useless, but firing them slightly above azrael might make some players use growler and whiff, other than that their purpose seems pretty limited to occasional anti-air barrage, 3C > 214D and maybe OD spam.

Platinums trademark Dash to 2B is great in this matchup, but only if you are near enough to surprise him, too far and he'll likely just 2C or 3C you on reaction.

It's actually good to know that many of Azraels moves are relatively easy to instant block, which can really make his life really difficult and if you see him getting way too greedy Happy Magicka can serve it's purpose pretty well too although riskier since Azrael isn't one of those characters who can do like 10 hits/s which allows him to control his pressure really well. You can also try to option select his cross-ups with barrier / 2B, but don't be too obvious with it, he could just throw you (he can deal fair bit of hurt from throw).

Most of the time, growler doesn't absorb the bubbles (growlers hitbox pops the bubbles before they get absorbed) so they are fairly safe to throw out.. Most of the time..

He might read you up with gustaf from fair range so don't be to obvious with them, and generally it's not item equip and bubble but one or the another. 

 

But generally unlike some match-ups this is one you just have to play a lot to get the feel. Especially against his completely brainless pressure where you can literally just smash A's and Drive randomly and maybe mix-it up dash cross-ups and what-not. Getting out of that usually requires some really good blocking, reads or reaction (e.g Happy magicka one of his Drives or 5A his cross-up).

 

 

IB may have actually been what happened: Like I said, he only performed it once, so I wasn't entirely sure as to whether it was correct. I would still like somebody to test, but it's understandable if nobody wants to considering the frame data doesn't match it.

Concerning using 3C to end pressure, I know it's minus, but if used at the end of a string, the result is that the opponent can be pushed too far to connect with anything, especially within the case of somebody like Azrael with short range (although maybe this is less an effective option and more just an unfavourable habit of mine). Still, looking back at it, he could just 236A toward you after wards(5 frames where you're able to act), although not having possession of the game I'm not sure if it would travel enough to reach you after the end of a string.

I've been using B-Bubble to after 3C (long-range) which seems fairly safe against Azrael, dunno if he has effective tools to punish it, but so far I have seen none (most attempts have lead to getting captured by the bubble).
Dunno if my pressure is optimal, but generally I use 5A (if close) > 2B > 5B > 5C > 3C > 214B this works pretty well against much of the cast. To mix-it I usually go for 6B and 63214D after the C or stagger with 5A or 5B. With meter I might even go for Mami RC > j.b > 2B.

[felirx]

Some random findings from Azrael's point of view to add.

Platinum's dash 2B can be countered with 3C or 6C on reaction because of the foot property. This probably does not work against dash 6A/5A or dash 5B unless Azrael's move becomes active first.

Random Mami in neutral or blockstring can be countered by 6A on reaction because of the body property that starts at 7 frames. Azrael can do 6A pretty late. High enough 6A counterhit leads to ~2k and weakpoint without weakpoints, all the way to around 4-5k with 2 weakpoints and near the corner. Sometimes if the 6A hits the later part of Mami, it will clash instead of counterhit so be ready for that.

Platinum's bubble reset in blockstring can be countered by forward dashing at the right ranges for a punish, or backdash for back to neutral. Example string being Platinums 5a>5b>3c>bubble or 5a>5b>5c>3c>bubble. Both are forward dashable on reaction to the buble startup. Nothing else seems to work reliably. The timing can be a bit tight on Azrael's part but the reward is a standard midscreen/corner bnb, 1,7~2,5k (3~5k corner) without weak points all the way up to 5k~6k with both weakpoints and BHS. Instant blocking 3C makes things a lot easier. If Azrael blocks the bubble and you try to dash 2B in, 2A seems to work decently.

Recklessly air dashing is really hard for both players in this matchup. Azrael's 2C beats any low airdash attempt but loses to high aproaches due to it's bad vertical range. 5B beats deeper j.B's but the timing is harder due to 5B having no head property. Platinum's 6A on the other hand really stuffs all the midscreen airdash attemps so that's not really an option. Instead, when Azrael gets in, he can op to instant airdash cancel his 5A or 5B in to a crossover j.B which can be a pain to react to and anti-air.

Just like most cast, Platinum's counter can be baited out by activating it with a 2A or 5A and then punishing with 5D/3D/6D counterhit which leads to 3~4k+ without weak points depending on distance from corner. He can also opt to get a phalanx stock by doing 5A>growler and then punish with a midscreen/corner bnb or a counterhit but the timing is tight. A swag way to punish this is also to do 5A into instantly cancelled slighty charged hornet or valiant.

If Azrael has Phalanx stocks, you should be really careful what you do on the ground. Any ground weapon load, wiffed b/c normal etc can be punished by a 9 frame startup Phalanx into BHS for 3.5k or Phalanx in to forward dash TK gustaf for free gap close and pressure start. Azrael needs to be slightly closer than full screen for BHS version to work, and somewhat closer for gustaf version.