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mAc Chaos

[CP] Hakumen VS Kokonoe: Don't Help Me, Professor Kokonoe!

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Hmm... I said I'd do a write-up, but after thinking it over, her gameplan is similar enough to Rachel's that I don't know what I could say here that would make a difference. You're basically trying to get in while avoiding all traps + cutting stuff. Once in, dish it out. More or less the same as with the Rabbit.

Even the RTSD gameplan is similar. Where Rachel will cover an approach with pumpkin + wind, Koko will go for a magnet + fireball + teleport setup. You'll then need to block a Litchi-ish mixup where the fireball acts like her Daisharin in the corner, except Koko can set this up midscreen.

The only real differences I've found is that Koko has higher average dmg because a good starter will net her more, and she can control you better with magnets than Rachel can with wind.

As for gimmicks... I haven't really witnessed them yet. I found her mixup relatively easy to block, though I'm sure that's going to change in the future. Haku can D counter many things, or cut projectiles which helps him a lot here.

In the long run, I think this matchup will be Koko's advantage simply because she can zone Haku pretty well. He can still hold his own because of counters, void, and OD, so it's not a lopsided matchup. I suspect it will eventually be 6-4 Koko adv.

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What about the UB into 7k I keep hearing about?

Also she is a new character, so knowing about any outright punishable moves would be good. The basics.

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If the black hole is a true unblockable then neither yuki nor zanshin should work.

What about the UB into 7k I keep hearing about?

Here is the general idea at 3:27. In this instance she got 5.7k midscreen off of it.

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Yep, UB super is totally unblockable, but the local Kokos can't combo it yet. :)

I can't really say what's safe or not yet. Here's stuff I noticed, though:

- Overhead hammer is v. unsafe.

- Teleport is invuln. 1-24/26 (?), but unsafe up to its end at 33f. Can prob. jab her out of it as I've successfully used raw Shippu here. Implies it really needs to be set up to be safe.

- Two types of mines: 22A is timed, while 22B is proximity/manual det. You can't go over them like with Rach poles. Can be cut.

- Voidable projectiles: mines, fireballs, freeze gun, fireball super. I think that's it.

- Her 6A is v. good. Beats a ton of shit outright.

... That's about it for now, I guess. I'll post more once the local Kokos develop their science.

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What about the UB into 7k I keep hearing about?

Also she is a new character, so knowing about any outright punishable moves would be good. The basics.

https://twitter.com/skeletal_minion/status/399034512749113344

You can see the setup towards the end of this video. When performed on Hakumen, it is inescapable. The combo that follows can do at least 6.7k.

Verified in person... I got hit with it :(

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If kokonoe throws a fireball at you and you counter it, I think she can set the unblockable on top of you and it hits haku as he recovers.

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Most of them are using the fireball to set up a safe teleport cross up. While you're busy blocking the gravity fireball that lasts way too long, she teleports behind you and goes all rachel on you. What makes this insanely hard to block is because the fireball/teleport are blocking the majority of your view of what she's starting to do. You can't do Yukikaze or 2D until she's started her mix ups either, because you're blocking the gap-less fireball the entire time.

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Me vs. Ivysaur, who might be the best Kokonoe in the country right now, in Grand Finals of a local tourney. Lots of good stuff in this vid. Learn from my failure ;_; Oh, and you can see the inescapable setup of the unblockable here. I think it's 236C > B? Catches all techs, counters don't catch it, Kishuu can't dodge it, delaying tech just means you get hit with it slightly later. I personally advise delaying it since you're getting hit with it regardless to maximize meter gain.

http://youtu.be/hXKUS4rMLnU

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I refuse to accept her advantage. We just have to figure her out.

If you barrier that ice gun of hers that chips like crazy (without barrier) then you get a free punish of your choice.

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You can cut her fireball DD on it's start up. The void should hit her and cancel it out.

Hitting her in any way cancels out her fireballs I think.

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Annoying match up, but in our favor. I feel that Hakumen can play this match up in a passive-aggressive or very aggressive so long as you remember her options. Being full on passive is extremely difficult in this match up but it is possible.

Neutral against her is whatever for the most part as most of her stuff just doesn't really cut it against Haku's offense. Her trying to establish neutral either gives us stars or a void and her teleport doesn't really matter so long as you're not over committing with something like 5C.

Fireball is an annoyance to cut since it doesn't fully go away(might be a glitch?) but so long as it's there, she cannot go in on you and run her mixup game.

Agito really messes with her 6A. It's a nightmare for her on the ground. Once you actually condition them to respect Agito, she just crumbles to Haku's pressure. Haku j.B, j.C and j.2C flat out beat a lot of her air pokes. Her j.2C is a little annoying but can be dealt with.

Wake up super ball is annoying but baiting it has very good payoffs for Haku. Examples being OD Throw Yukikaze or OD 6C step Hotaru which goes right through the fireball and into our best starter for damage. Takes OD but the reward is extremely high for calling it out.

Looking on the bbs and seeing Kokonoe players hating this match up and after playing it for a little bit with multiple people, I can see why. Haku just doesn't care about what she wants to do in neutral.

imo 5.5-4.5. Don't get hit into unblock, play solid neutral and kill her for her mistakes. Pretty standard.

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Neutral against her is whatever for the most part as most of her stuff just doesn't really cut it against Haku's offense. Her trying to establish neutral either gives us stars or a void and her teleport doesn't really matter so long as you're not over committing with something like 5C.

How do you avoid the teleport + fireball from other side though?

Fireball is an annoyance to cut since it doesn't fully go away(might be a glitch?) but so long as it's there, she cannot go in on you and run her mixup game.

If a projectile has multiple "applications" before it fades away, it'll need to refresh the void a few times before it goes away. Regular fireballs kinda vanish after they've almost left the void, but I think they still can't do damage to you even then. If you cut a fireball, you should be safe or have enough time to smack Kokonoe and force it to go away.

Just a not, since I got burned heavily because of it. If you slash the super fireball as soon as Kokonoe fires it, it doesn't actually stop the fireball. It'll come back after a moment and since the void has to hit Kokonoe when you spawn it, you won't have it to protect you. Should be safe with a 2C though.

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How do you avoid the teleport + fireball from other side though?

A few options actually.

1. Stop standing like a brick and be within punishment range of her even thinking about doing fireball

2. Get free stars off it. She will most likely get snatched out of teleport recovery from 2D/5D/j.D.

She has to use quite a lot of gravity just to make it so it's annoying to cut. Definitely not good for her since she really need it in this match up to control any of the pace.

If a projectile has multiple "applications" before it fades away, it'll need to refresh the void a few times before it goes away. Regular fireballs kinda vanish after they've almost left the void, but I think they still can't do damage to you even then. If you cut a fireball, you should be safe or have enough time to smack Kokonoe and force it to go away.

Just a not, since I got burned heavily because of it. If you slash the super fireball as soon as Kokonoe fires it, it doesn't actually stop the fireball. It'll come back after a moment and since the void has to hit Kokonoe when you spawn it, you won't have it to protect you. Should be safe with a 2C though.

I've never had it happen with any other projectile yet but I also haven't tested that much against other characters' projectiles. I just know Kagura's dies for free and instantly disappears when it's slashed.

EDIT:

Forgot to mention. 5D/2Ding any fireball with a grounded or body level gravity well and then continuously doing 2D nets you 7 stars.

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I've never had it happen with any other projectile yet but I also haven't tested that much against other characters' projectiles. I just know Kagura's dies for free and instantly disappears when it's slashed.

Platinum's upgraded bullet works like that (in Extend at least). The void slows it down, refreshes constantly as long as it's within range (it kinda inches forward) and then continues moving normally after it leaves the void. Not sure whether there are any other similar projectiles though. Possibly certain drills from Amane.

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I hate her. A lot. Brokonoe's hitbox is literally designed to conspire to make everything you throw at her whiff. And then her stupidly easy hitconfirms come in and give her free damage. It's pretty mind blowing how few of her moves have any sort of recovery or danger to them.

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I hate her. A lot. Brokonoe's hitbox is literally designed to conspire to make everything you throw at her whiff. And then her stupidly easy hitconfirms come in and give her free damage. It's pretty mind blowing how few of her moves have any sort of recovery or danger to them.

Wut?

Lets talk a few things shall we?

Lets talk about how when I try to 2A Haku-men he 2A's me and I lose.

Lets talk about how when I whiff a move with range I die.

Lets talk about how agito makes 6A a bad idea with the match up.

Lets talk about how I can't properly zone Hakumen because lol passive meter gain, counters, and it being cut makes it sad.

How about how my lightning oki midscreen is pointless because lol counter.

How about how her hitbox is not so messed up because all your hitconfirms work on her just fine.

I mean I can't stress this enough.

This match up is not good for Kokonoe.

Hakumen pressure is safe against teleport, he can punish fireball without a single care.

Zoning is lol bad, and counters blow up her oki stuff.

Once you get in she can't buttons, Hakumen pressure is so good against her.

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Wut?

Lets talk a few things shall we?

Lets talk about how when I try to 2A Haku-men he 2A's me and I lose.

Lets talk about how when I whiff a move with range I die.

Lets talk about how agito makes 6A a bad idea with the match up.

Lets talk about how I can't properly zone Hakumen because lol passive meter gain, counters, and it being cut makes it sad.

How about how my lightning oki midscreen is pointless because lol counter.

How about how her hitbox is not so messed up because all your hitconfirms work on her just fine.

I mean I can't stress this enough.

This match up is not good for Kokonoe.

Hakumen pressure is safe against teleport, he can punish fireball without a single care.

Zoning is lol bad, and counters blow up her oki stuff.

Once you get in she can't buttons, Hakumen pressure is so good against her.

Jump more. You'll see.

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Jump more more against what?

j.C?

Hotaru?

Agito?

Air grab?

Sorry I don't wanna die.

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Just use her jumping wrench attack. That thing magically wins against everything.

I've killed Kokonoe players for trying to j.B me. j.C is a literal wall of red and on CH near corner is a free 4k minimum.

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Then we got different versions of Hakumen, because j.C does nothing but go under or over her whenever I try it. Give me the one with the attacks that actually hits things.

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Then we got different versions of Hakumen, because j.C does nothing but go under or over her whenever I try it. Give me the one with the attacks that actually hits things.

I have the "every air hitbox is nothing but red" version. You know, BBCP Hakumen. If you're trying to j.C her when she's on the ground, you're just fucking up.

There's also the easiest solution: Space better.

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Give counters to different moves. Like use Haku j.C against Kokonoe j.B, etc.

Otherwise it is just "don't get hit."

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