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BladeOfJustice7

[CP] The Critique My Hakumen Thread

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Man, I haven't made a new thread in ages. Well Since everyone has pretty much hopped on the CP bandwagon of cookie doughs and pillsbury. I decided to make a new Hakumen Critique thread for CP, rather than use the old one.

These were the last posts in the previous thread which will continue here since Spark will close the old thread:

Critique my Hakumen! I am having trouble in the Azrael matchup. Please be as mean as possible so that I can improve.

http://www.twitch.tv/milehighburst/b/478002892?t=95m30s

Another match I'm in at about 2:10 with some hilarious commentary,

and then I face the Azrael again in losers bracket and I do a lot better, I'd love some comments on this match too:

http://www.twitch.tv/milehighburst/b/478002892?t=161m05s

if there's any weaknesses you notice in this Azrael in particular, I'd like to hear anything bout that too.

All of Azrael's standing overheads (6D, 5D, 236D) and his drive moves in general have really slow start ups. He's going to come in with a bunch of quick blockstring hits and then try to mix you up with a drive move near the end. You can punish the hell out of the drive moves when they start by using 3C.

You're going to want to look out more for if they're using jump cancels and his dash to cross you up during pressure. If you can recognize when they're doing this, you can use those opportunities to jump out and open up space for yourself again. Most of Azrael's moves have very limited range. They still like to use 236A and 6C a lot to close space though, and 6C has a habit of catching people in mid air dash, so be wary.

Random tidbits: 236D (Valiant whatchamacallit) has super armor while he's standing there. It's a common trap to feed haku a 3C or 5C, absorb it with the super armor, and then hit you with 236D as you're still on recovery frames. Then you get to eat the Valiant Charger combo with Black Hawk Stinger ender for something like 4.5K damage.

His 3D and 6D move him forward a decent range. Some of them *cough* me *cough* will try to close with those on occasion. If you block it, the only thing he can do afterwards is block as well. If he tries to attack again, he'll lose to most everything else. I would say if you manage to block that, immediately follow up with 6B or 2B depending on if they're gonna block high or low.

You didn't make proper use of Zantetsu Kishuu and Renka throughout the first match from what I saw.

41236C does more damage if you cancel into kishuu after the first hit and go into 2c>stuff, you get about 200 extra damage.

2b is fairly easy to hitconfirm off of and cancel into either 3c or renka>kishuu. You should work on that.

There was a few times you missed j2c>agito, also in the corner it's best to go jb>j2a>jc>slight delay>agito since it allows you to deal very slightly extra damage and it increases you oki opportunity in the corner.

Also against Azrael, you generally wan to keep him out, not let him in when it comes to this matchup. Wear out his wealth because you don't want to be the one who has to get in on him later on in the match because he has a health advantage.

That's just from my quick observation, I guess we need a CP Hakumen Critique Thread.

ENJOY:toot:

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Edit: Forgot to mention... The quality in the videos are complete garbage... Sorry bout that... :vbang:

Well I see that there is some real information about the Azreal match already so this is more of a request for you to tell me how bad I am with a character I've been using since CT and what I could work on... Lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i7J9jF94ts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvcdneAIyEo

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Just a mini disclaimer: I've been playing BB since CT, but mostly on other people's consoles since I didn't have my own. Up until January this year (so BBCS Extend), I've only ever properly played Ragnas and Tagers with my Hakumen. Was waiting mostly on CP though and played other stuff before it was released. Anyway, I need to improve my matchups with various characters, so here are some clips where I both win and lose:

VS Carl: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZH9R8a-AHA

VS Terumi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcQeMY328HA

VS Haku: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jidv4uHScuk

VS Tsubaki (Kiba): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XddecFqb6WQ

VS Litchi: www.youtube.com/watch?v=fd7dJgmLtSk

Also, crappy mobile phone quality, but you can at least clearly see stuff.

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^ I noticed a few general things after watching for a bit:

- Get better combos. Stuff like throw -> Shippu or Yukikaze is best if it kills, not when the guy has 70% hp. Waste of stars.

- Jab more. They're quick and disrupt the other's offence. You can mount a better close game with them.

- Don't use C moves as a blockstring. If you do, at least cancel with kishuu (on block) to set up tick throw.

- I would suggest unbinding your D button to deactivate counters. This way you are forced to use your other tools to win. It's a great exercise. When you get your counters back, your accuracy with them should be improved as well.

Overall, you don't seem to have much of a gameplan in these vids and it seems to me like you're flailing around a bit. Too many moves whiff and you're not pressing the advantage when you have it (which would include better combos). It's also my impression that you crumble whenever on defence. Learn to sit tight and just block the other's offence. Be patient and you'll get your chance to mount a counter-offensive.

Focus on these, and the matchups will take care of themselves. Be more patient, work on being more precise, and analyze the situation a bit longer. It's better to use the right move for the situation than throw out five and have them all whiff.

And that's my $.02. :)

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^^Shout outs to that Astral against Terumi

Anyway, your general problem seems that you don't really have a game plan and just mostly mashing buttons; I recommend studying the moves that work best in neutral and close range and think of a plan of attack.

- You need to learn some combos, there are a lot of spots where you could have got some decent damage; like those CH 3C in you Carl matches could have led to stuff like: Zantetsu>2C>stuff, or just 2C>J.2A stuff.

- Stop relying on your counters so much, they're situational. This holds true especially for this game because of our inability to combo off of them. Start learning to play without your counters to circumvent this.

- You're wasting a lot of your precious meter; Don't try to constantly fish for Yukikaze, especially when you don't have any stars left afterward. Like Sophi said, Throw>Shippu mostly works when its a killing move.

- Learn to block. You're getting CH'd because you're trying to mash on wake-up. Hakumen is a very defense orientated character, so you have to be patient with him and look for an opening.

That's my critique, hope you improve...its nice to have more Hakumen players.

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Thanks for the critique, folks. I'm not sure I'll be able to learn any of the more complicated combos before a tourney this week, but there's already plenty of here I can work with.

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You should definitely be able to learn the standard stuff into staircase before said tourney.

The staircase is [stuff] -> (s)j.B -> j.2a -> [dj.2c -> Agito] / j.C

Which finisher you use above depends on whether you want knockdown or corner carry. Very simple.

To go into staircase with almost any normal, you do [normal] -> Renka(1) -> Kishuu -> 2c

Off throw, you do CT -> 2c

Off 3c, you do 2b -> Gurren -> hop 5a -> 5b -> sj.B -> etc.

Etc.

That should be plenty to get you going. :)

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Thanks! I'll add that to my training schedule together with the other stuff you guys mentioned. Also, can you guys give me an idea what you mean with "game plan" when it comes to BB? I've had game plans when playing DOA, but that was due to stage layouts being relevant. Is it match-dependent in BB? Like "VS Terumi rush with Combo X", "VS Tager be lame with pokes"?

I generally played Haku reactionary, which I know is not optimal, but it's the aspect of him I enjoyed - figuring out the opponent and predicting his attacks. I knew a few combos in Extend that I used, but that kinda went to crap with CP. Staircase combos aside, is it possible to play a non-combo oriented Hakumen?

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Yes, it is matchup dependent; because every character in this game plays so differently, you need to understand how to play against them to get the upper hand. Thinking about what options you have when you're positioned on screen, and how to capitilize; Hakumen's general gameplan is to keep his opponents out of his range while he builds enough stars to start getting high damage combos, which is why blocking and patience are key.

Predicting the opponent only really works if they're gameplan is just really two-dimensional, if someone figures out you're trying to predict them they can easily throw it back in your face.(I.e. Trying to predict the opponent by using a counter, and then the opponent grabs you). With Hakumen, its better to learn to react than to predict, his defense options are pretty fast so if you're reflexes are good enough you can turn the tables.

You can play any character without combos, its just gonna be a bit of an uphill battle for you because of how much damage you're forgoing.

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I haven't had a chance to check out any videos yet, but as far as having a gameplan VS flailing wildly: you shouldn't just throw out random moves and hope they will hit. Instead you should be throwing out what you think will beat their next move.

That means learning what each move is useful for and the timing and spacing for it.

And combos are more like an enhancer of your skills. They just increase the damage you do from a successful hit and improve positioning. So you could think of it as all just one long move once you land that first hit. Not using your combos is giving up damage that could end the round in 2 successful hits instead of 10. And that is giving the opponent that many free tries to make a comeback.

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I've just played 61 offline matches with my regular sparring buddy and made use of the advice in this thread. End result was 31:30 in my favor, and this is against someone that usually wins 70% of matches in a session against me.

So yea, all this has helped immensely. Thanks folks. I think I have the staircase combo stuff down somewhat as well.

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- Stop relying on your counters so much, they're situational. This holds true especially for this game because of our inability to combo off of them. Start learning to play without your counters to circumvent this.

- I would suggest unbinding your D button to deactivate counters. This way you are forced to use your other tools to win. It's a great exercise. When you get your counters back, your accuracy with them should be improved as well.

Lies

kzp.gif

(In all seriousness, do take their advice, this was just a bit of humor)

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Lies

kzp.gif

(In all seriousness, do take their advice, this was just a bit of humor)

Ok, I was wrong. Listen to this guy, he knows shit.

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I saw a lot of wasted combo opportunities and very stationary gameplay. Hakumen doesn't really have the luxury of wasting opportunities, because you're only going to get a few each round. It will go a long way to maximize your damage as much as you can. You had a lot of successful grabs, but barely did anything to follow up after the grabs. You can do things such as hop hotaru for corner carry, or something simple like Grab > 5C > Enma combo.

This is mostly my opinion when it comes to playing Hakumen, but remaining stationary or overly defensive allows your opponent to dictate the spacing of your fight. By moving enough to (hopefully) control your spacing, you can reduce your opponents' opportunities to take advantage of their tools, while putting you in a better position to react and threaten your opponent. This could mean back dashing away to open space, double jumps to throw them off, instant air dashing, etc..

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I saw a lot of wasted combo opportunities and very stationary gameplay. Hakumen doesn't really have the luxury of wasting opportunities, because you're only going to get a few each round. It will go a long way to maximize your damage as much as you can. You had a lot of successful grabs, but barely did anything to follow up after the grabs. You can do things such as hop hotaru for corner carry, or something simple like Grab > 5C > Enma combo.

This is mostly my opinion when it comes to playing Hakumen, but remaining stationary or overly defensive allows your opponent to dictate the spacing of your fight. By moving enough to (hopefully) control your spacing, you can reduce your opponents' opportunities to take advantage of their tools, while putting you in a better position to react and threaten your opponent. This could mean back dashing away to open space, double jumps to throw them off, instant air dashing, etc..

You can stay relatively immobile if your neutral game is strong enough. I've had games where the only time I moved outside of walking back and forth was in order to react to a jump-in, IAD, or a ground dash.

I do agree with making use of your opportunities, as it is definitely harder to open people up in general. Even though I say this, I honestly don't have an issue with opening people up, haha. I force a lot of situations just by playing a strong neutral and pressure game when I need either.

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I'm ready so Come at me, bros!

I want to add to what BlackYakuza was saying. You need to make sure that you know basic combos with Hakumen for any given situation. Work on confirming into 3C on the ground or agito in the air for a knockdown. Also, try to avoid using 3C during a blockstring (it's -12 on block, which is very punishable if they instant block). If you're going to use it as a pseudo frame-trap, make sure you use it at max range so that it's harder for characters to punish it.

As for counters, try not to rely on them so much. You'll have to get in the habit of blocking instead of mashing counter during someone's blockstring.

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Hey everyone, here's some casuals I recorded with my friend. I press D alot in these matches since their not that serious but I'm finding the neutral game pretty hard right now. In air to air situations I find I always lose, not even using j.A has beaten out that much stuff, and on the ground I end up blocking for a really long time without being able to take back momentum. The fact that Kokonoe's normals are almost all jump cancellable makes it difficult to know when I can poke back. Also all of those CH j.C from Kokonoe was because I was stupid and though 5D would activate in time.... I miss 1f 6D so much right now...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j81lnIQkp2o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsUyBjYxmmc

Anyways they should provide some entertainment to say the least.

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Please tell me what I can do better here in this matchup. Any and all advice is appreciated.

http://www.twitch.tv/kingsofco/b/494518119?t=266m35s

Anyone with any advice on the Hakumen vs. Litchi matchup?

Of course advice from Spark would be like Christmas but I will take any criticism or thoughts very seriously.

These were grand finals for a big tournament here in CO. We were both very nervous and dropped a HUGE amount of combos. I had a ton of fun but I WANNA TO BEAT THIS LITCHI NEXT TIME!! :yaaay:

It's actually kind of atrocious that I dropped the bracket-resetting combo... my defense is that I practice on a regular monitor at home. It has some input lag that I correct for by buffering the next move in the combo. This was not on a laggy monitor, I hit 2c once, and it didn't come out because I did it too early. Should have just mashed it....

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I'd consult the matchup thread if you're having some trouble with Litchi. But from what I can tell your playstyle is fine, but you should be aware Litchi kinda controls space and the flow of the match a lot better than Hakumen can. Your best bet to beat her, from my perspective, is to keep on the defensive until you find an opening to attack. If your opponent isn't giving you that opening, then you just gotta try and make one.

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I have no problem with the idea of just being defensive and waiting for stars, and then blowing the opponent up when I get an opening. That idea is the most true to the concept of Hakumen as a character anyway.

Yeah, I'm kinda realizing that all my normals get beat like 75% of the time... I had a lot of success blocking his mix-up, which threw off his game and let me get some openings for hits.

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Hmm the thing that stands out the most watching the video is that you didn't finish a lot of combos or did a lot of non-optimal combos. There were many rounds that you could have won or won sooner if you did a more damaging combo. After blocking Litchi's CT 3C beats out almost everything. When she sends the staff out it's really easy to catch it with 5D for extra meter and if she's not careful it can catch her if she follows the staff in. Also TK hotaru on wake up is pretty dangerous if they hit their meaty timing right you'll just get it, if they just do any crouching normal even if they don't hit the right timing it will just whiff over them anyway leaving you open. There's more stuff, but this is just off the top of my head when watching through the recording.

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It sounds like you have some knowledge about fighting Litchi in CP. Maybe you should fill out some details in her matchup thread.

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