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Vulcan422

Persona 4: The Ultimax Ultra Suplex Hold Story Thread (spoilers)

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He appeared on The Promised Day"/The Fall ("Judgment Day") to save humanity ("saves the virtuous"), merges with the universe and becomes the sole user of the Universe arcana ("is a universal figure"), has died ("his death"), but has yet to experience a "rebirth."

About that, well, I think he DID experienced rebirth. He was alive right after the battle when he encountered his friends. His conscience faded away in the rooftop later on.

In any case, I want him to come back. It wouldn't ruin P3's ending for me, after all, it wasn't fair for him to be a seal for all eternity in the first place.

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About that, well, I think he DID experienced rebirth. He was alive right after the battle when he encountered his friends. His conscience faded away in the rooftop later on.

He never died. He stayed alive through sheer force of will.

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He never died. He stayed alive through sheer force of will.

Hum, I don't know. Wasn't Ryouji the one who managed to keep him alive, or rather, bring him back from the final battle?

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There was actually nothing that explicitly linked Ryoji to Makoto's return after the Great Seal. When Yukari is calling out to him after his "death", he can answer "It's alright..." or "What happened...?"

All Ryoji does afterward is say that normal days will return to the cast and Makoto, and that Makoto has found "the answer to life's greatest question."

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Of course, the possibility exists they'll just have him be saved and that'll be that, but I hope not as it'll just drain all of the weight and impact out of everything we've seen from Makoto's death onwards. Let there be consequences, or let it take more time to give it the satisfying payoff it deserves.

I don't they could ever just "revive" Makoto. He's dead and that isn't going to change (he had a funeral and everything). What Elizabeth wants, of course, is to free his soul and potentially "see" him again in the process, but who knows how that could be conveyed or what form Makoto being freed from the shackles of the Great Seal could take.

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I have a question that may or may not be simple. Why aren't there more fire users here? I mean, the only fire people we have are Yukiko, Shadow Labrys, and Junpei. Aigis uses fire in like one move, but i'm not sure she counts there, and Elizabeth uses everything, so she's exempt too.

We lack Koromaru but that's not saying fire is under-represented. We got 3 dedicated Zio users (Yu, Kanji and Akihiko), 2 Bufu users (Chie and Mitsuru, while Teddie has no Bufu skills to speak of in P4A despite that being his primary element in P4), 2 Agi users (Yukiko and Junpei) and 2 Garu users (Yosuke and Yukari). It's looking pretty even. The others are better off just being assorted into their own category.

I don't they could ever just "revive" Makoto. He's dead and that isn't going to change (he had a funeral and everything). What Elizabeth wants, of course, is to free his soul and potentially "see" him again in the process, but who knows how that could be conveyed or what form Makoto being freed from the shackles of the Great Seal could take.

Eh, Elizabeth's goal is pretty ambiguous at this stage anyway. She wants to "free" him, but what that "freeing" entails is completely left unexplained. We could grasp at straws here all day but until she actually does it, we cannot know for certain.

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He's dead and that isn't going to change (he had a funeral and everything).

I wouldn't count my chickens before they hatch. But you're correct, either interpretation is valid. I simply side with the resurrection because it seems the most plausible given his archetype. The foreshadowing is just too thick for me to ignore.

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P3 released 8 years ago in Japan. ...How much more time do you want to wait? lol Thankfully, this game is tying up those loose ends. I in no way want this storyline apart of P5 or any future entries whatsoever. This is a seamless venue for it. :p

I was referring to narrative time. In the plot, 3 years have passed between P3 and Arena. Given Elizabeth stated this would take so long that only Aigis, a chronologically (or is it circadian? Anyway...) immortal mechanoid, would be able to assist in her task, which you can take that to mean that it would take decades. If Makoto's salvation happened at the end of Climax without some sort of "price" this would be a rather weak pay off to what Liz has told us previously.

I do agree that I think this arc should be resolved now so that P5 can be clear of baggage from the previous games and better stand on its own, perhaps limiting it to cameos or visiting familiar locations.

I'll also comment briefly on the resurrection issue. There are two outcomes: either his soul is freed and just dissipates into the ether, or he returns to the land of the living. Both would be bittersweet as I think Atlus would intend, but the latter is the one I reckon would have the most weight assuming they take the logical route of having Makoto be the same as he was when he died, that is the same age, same knowledge, sort of like waking from a long coma. The P3 characters at this point in the story have grown older and wiser, they've buried him and grieved for him, and now having skipped ahead age and maturity wise their world is now alien to him. But, of course, we've already seen a similar group of friends (who just happen to be the same age as Makoto was when he gave up his life) come together through their acceptance of outsiders, including Labrys. Imagine the former SEES members leaving Makoto behind with the Investigation Team, to allow him to restart his life with a new group friends, but always knowing they'll be special to him (and vice versa).

That's how I see it playing out anyway. Or his soul could just do a quick wave and smile at everyone and then pop like a soap bubble into nothingness. We'll have to wait and see.

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I was referring to narrative time. In the plot, 3 years have passed between P3 and Arena.

Actually, there is only a 2 year difference between the end of P3 (March 2010) and Arena (May 2012.) There is 3 year difference between the beginning of P3 and the start of Arena, however. :P

Still though, two years is not that radical of a difference (if any.) If it were a 6+ year gap or so...I could concede. But two years comes off as extremely miniscule and inconsequential to me. Unless groundbreaking advances were made or the world is recuperating from an apocalypse, I do not see how he would have trouble adapting. Therefore, I would not go as far to use the word "alien." As for them being older and wiser...if their dispositions in P4U are a solid indicator, their temperaments have in fact changed very little since The Answer. It is not as though they are adults who have finished college, started careers, and settled down and started families. They're still the same, if you ask me. Junpei is still Stupei, Yukari is as snarky as ever, Mitsuru is more independent in the sense she now picks out her own clothes, Fuuka is...Fuuka, and Aigis is essentially the same. If anyone changed (if it all) I would argue Akihiko due to his protein and training obsession taken to new heights. haha. Truly though, I find "age" beyond arbitrary in this scenario. Technically, Makoto is still their age anyway...he's just been "dead" and one with the universe all of this time. :P

Imagine the former SEES members leaving Makoto behind with the Investigation Team, to allow him to restart his life with a new group friends, but always knowing they'll be special to him (and vice versa).

Egh...honestly, if this had even a remote chance of happening, I would vastly prefer if he just remained dead. It just comes off as jarring (let alone bewildering) for him to be "abandoned" by his friends who he endured with, gave his life for, and remained alive through sheer force of will (despite having no lifeforce) to fulfill his promise to them on graduation day. It...doesn't sit right with me.

The Investigation Team is for Yu. S.E.E.S/Shadow Ops is for Makoto:

http://24.media.tumblr.com/ca8216ace9b2a4b26f79ecc9634daf23/tumblr_n1c772HvpN1spdy36o6_r1_250.gif

Not to mention it seems extremely out of character for all of them, specifically Aigis, Yukari, and Mitsuru to just "let him go." Hell, Mitsuru was going on about how Makoto was "more than just a friend" and how she "owes her life to him" in P4U. Aigis almost gave into Malevolent Entity's temptation to "reunite" with him in the TV world. Doing so (Makoto sticking with the IT) render the dynamic of SEES as dangerously tenuous and shallow in my opinion, and defeats the themes of "friendship" and "bonds" which are salient in P3 and P4 (for me, at least.) I mean...they can accept Labrys who was sealed away for 12 years (who they also do not know)...over Makoto?

Lastly, the old bonds he established (not just with SEES) allowed him to form The Universe arcana and vanquish Nyx. What sense would it make for him to separate from everyone and start a life with random highschoolers? (this is my position, I understand if you feel differently.) Plus, if P4G's epilogue is canon... I would wager chances are slim to none. But yeah...just my 2 cents.

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If Makoto/Minato shows up in P4 Ultimax, would he have Messiah or Orpheus (Telos)?

I was playing P3FES earlier today, and noticed how Messiah would be badass in Arena.

But more seriously Messiah is his Ultimate Persona as shown in P3's credits(And Makoto/Minato is considered the Messiah due to his sacrifice), while Orpheus Telos is (also?) his Ultimate Persona.

I doubt he would have Thanatos because of Elizabeth.

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If Makoto/Minato shows up in P4 Ultimax, would he have Messiah or Orpheus (Telos)?

I was playing P3FES earlier today, and noticed how Messiah would be badass in Arena.

But more seriously Messiah is his Ultimate Persona as shown in P3's credits(And Makoto/Minato is considered the Messiah due to his sacrifice), while Orpheus Telos is (also?) his Ultimate Persona.

I doubt he would have Thanatos because of Elizabeth.

Messiah seems to be the only viable and sensible option, seeing as Mitsuru, Akihiko, Aigis, Junpei, Yukari, (and presumably Fuuka) have all retained their ultimate Personas.

Orpheus is obsolete. Orpheus Telos is a later FES/P3P addition. Elizabeth has Thanatos.

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Actually, there is only a 2 year difference between the end of P3 (March 2010) and Arena (May 2012.) There is 3 year difference between the beginning of P3 and the start of Arena, however. :P

Ah of course! Shows what I get for doing bad napkin math.

Otherwise, I'm pretty much in agreement, although my suggestion was based on the assumption that he would have to restart his life from where he left off, which would mean still being in school and such. The various responsibilities of the former SEES members have taken them elsewhere in the world, so my thinking was that societal demands and conventions (funnily enough part of the theme of P5 of all things) would mean as much as they would like to continue where they left off, that isn't so easy.

But otherwise yes, I think you're pretty much spot on with those assessments.

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Ah, I get you.

I'm thinking if he does return, he could potentially be inducted into the Shadow Ops as #0. With Mitsuru's connections, I doubt he'll need school...or money...or lodging...or anything. :P

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I'm just confirming for a friend, was P1s Kei Nanjo ever announced/hinted as being a character? There's apparently an image floating around of him vs Mitsuru, and I don't know enough about P4U2 to know if its fake or not lol

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I'm just confirming for a friend, was P1s Kei Nanjo ever announced/hinted as being a character? There's apparently an image floating around of him vs Mitsuru, and I don't know enough about P4U2 to know if its fake or not lol

I think I know of the image you're talking about. It's a fake, a very old one in fact.

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I'm bothered by the random, elaborate fan fiction some come up with to justify a potential return when we don't even know if he'll be in the game at all.

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If you'd prefer the discussion be kept to the facts that's fine. Please note however that my intent was to discuss "How do they plan to pay off this setup appropriately?", as opposed to wish fulfilment.

Anyways, moving on. In one of the earlier posts it was stated that it seems unlikely Ikutski is alive. Where does this info come from?

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If you'd prefer the discussion be kept to the facts that's fine. Please note however that my intent was to discuss "How do they plan to pay off this setup appropriately?", as opposed to wish fulfilment.

Anyways, moving on. In one of the earlier posts it was stated that it seems unlikely Ikutski is alive. Where does this info come from?

That early post said that Ikutsuki is probably dead since he fell off Tartarus. I'd normally agree with that, especially in P3 where at least 5 people died in the plot.

But there's also the possibility of a stupid ass-pull like Makoto in Alter Memory falling from the top of Kagutsuchi (Which is on top of one of the highest mountains in the planet) and somehow surviving.

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That early post said that Ikutsuki is probably dead since he fell off Tartarus. I'd normally agree with that, especially in P3 where at least 5 people died in the plot.

But there's also the possibility of a stupid ass-pull like Makoto in Alter Memory falling from the top of Kagutsuchi (Which is on top of one of the highest mountains in the planet) and somehow surviving.

Atlus does not ass-pull, so I highly doubt (and do not want) Ikutsuki is alive. Besides, he's not a fan favorite...

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elaborate fan fiction some come up with to justify a potential return when we don't even know if he'll be in the game at all.

This is bad. This is not what should happen in a story thread, even if it's for speculation.

Stupid & childish arguments and oh so cool passive aggressive posts are also bad.

I don't know very much about the Persona series' plot, so I can't judge well when a post is "valid" or "stupid," but something clearly went wrong today.

If you have no basis for something other than "Atlus said somebody is gonna show up somewhere, don't spend walls of texts weaving some irrelevant tale about how it could be your favorite character when there's no solid evidence. Again, I don't know Persona, so I don't know if there was solid evidence or not, I just saw a lot of bitching back and forth.

L4LBLoK.gif

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Does anyone know who are the characters in the blurred footage of this video? It doesn't look like anything we've seen in P4A so far, could they be new characters?

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Looks like it, I wanna say the one on the right is a female character. Their Persona really looks like Medea.

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If the rumored characters are correct ( Ken and Rise). What role do you think they will have in the story?

 

Ken probably would have came to Inaba with Labrys and Yukari. Rise probably just sick of being kidnapped.

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Ken probably would have came to Inaba with Labrys and Yukari. Rise probably just sick of being kidnapped.

 

Is Ken a member of the Shadow Operatives though? You'd thought a kid his age would live a normal life after all the shitstorm.

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