[P4AU] Mitsuru Kirijo Gameplay Discussion

[AchedSphinx]

Oh okay, mah bad.

 

It just occured to me, I'm pretty sure at least j. is still cancellable on hit, 'cause I remember trying to do the old j. j.C [2]8C etc. combo.  Of course the whole thing doesn't work anymore, but trying just that section of it I think j. j.C still came out.

 

I haven't seen many Mitsuru players go for that j.B > j.C set-up so I'm not sure if she can cancel j.B on hit, but even still, I'm worried if she can actually follow it up with bufula. j.C now has 25 frames of recovery compared to 17 frames in P4A. So it might be one of those, it works, but the combo doesn't complete sort of things.

 

Also, I stopped using that set-up after playing against LK a lot when he used to play more.

[LegendaryRath]

The mook had me confused for a long time regarding if j.A and j.B are cancel-able. Watching some footage, j.A is still cancel-able into j.B, j.C, and probably j.D. I also saw j.B cancel into j.C in hit.

 

Sorry about taking so long translating this stuff. I got over halfway done and then some personal stuff got in the way. Give me like 2 days tops.

[Reako]

Take your time, there is no rush. Just make sure we get it at some point, and well done too!

I could help translating if the need for it arrives, btw.

[AchedSphinx]

Finally a Mitsuru combo video. He shows some interesting tech near the end. http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm23207196

[shtkn]

MITSURU CHANGES IN 1.1

5A 

- Decreased kickback

Sweep

- Invincibility of the feint-version has been decreased

Bufula

- Latter half of the move can be cancelled to any version of Coup Droit

 

bit sad about hte sweep nerf, but oh well.

 

i hope the change to bufula means powered up coup droit is actually possible from full screen to close distance. does anyone know how +/- mirror > coup is?

[LegendaryRath]

Sweep Feint's invul was buffed pretty hard in P4U2, so it's probably going to go back to what it was in P4U.

 

I'm not actually sure about mirror > droit's advantage. Even though there's going to be a patch, I'll try to finish the frame data for P4U2 1.0 and figure it out. If it isn't there, then we might be able to ask a JP player to check it out for us.

 

actually, until I see this bufula > droit change for myself, I'm not even 100% sure what it means or what its exact purpose is. I have some ideas, but I don't want to get my hopes up.

[AchedSphinx]

I suppose it depends on if she can cancel into droit on bufula's whiff. The explanation of the move seems vague. Nothing on if its on hit, whiff, or block.

 

Anyways the difference between Mitsuru's sweep feints.

 

P4U: 1-14 low profile

P4U2: 4-25 low profile/chest invul

 

I didn't notice this before, but since the invul doesn't start until frame 4, it should be safe to 5A on Mitsuru's wake-up now as Mitsuru. The sweep nightmares might be a thing of the past.

[AchedSphinx]

Good job on the frame data. I just wanted to point out a few errors. On the P-Combo table 5A isn't listed as dash cancel-able and according to this footage it is.

 

Not sure if this is accurate or not, but for bufula D version, the active frames are listed at 3001.

 

2B just frame is listed as low only. I assume that's just a typo though.

 

And that's about it.

 

All that stuff Mitsuru can do with bufula and droit sounds pretty fun. I didn't know droit B charged gained 10 recovery frames. That's crazy. I didn't use it that much, but now I don't really have a reason to use it. But they did reduce the amount of frames it takes for droit to get max damage, so perhaps that will have some use.

 

Good changes overall, it will be fun to test some of the ideas I have. Tentarafoo looks like it'll be fun. I might just make it my new troll ability.

 

Also, just a thought for droit B uncharged, perhaps make the damage just 1500. And for droit B charged make it go 1600/x/x/x/x

[shtkn]

5A: good catch, it's not listed in the mook, but the video proof is pretty obvious

2B: that's exactly what hte mook has it listed (just frame version as low, rest air unblockable). is there no way we can test?

B Droit:yes that's what i meant to do but i was too careless with my copy-paste

 

thanks for checking my work

[LegendaryRath]

Thanks for finishing off the frame data. I can't wait until we get to do it again with 1.1

[Reako]

All the changes have been getting me really exited. I cannot wait to import the game, or if close enough to the Japanese release date, import the game from America. I have a lot of combo ideas I would like to test.

Most of all, I want to test if Tentarafoo is somehow possible as a combo finisher, which I haven't seen anyone do yet. perhaps it's just not possible? If you think about it, it should be possible after an AoA~D now, considering the insanely reduced recovery on it. Also, AoA gives a lot of meter now, so it might not even be that bad to sacrifice a bit of HP if you could, this way, use Tentarafoo as a combo finisher.

Perhaps someone could test this out? I would greatly appreciate it.

[AchedSphinx]

All the changes have been getting me really exited. I cannot wait to import the game, or if close enough to the Japanese release date, import the game from America. I have a lot of combo ideas I would like to test.

Most of all, I want to test if Tentarafoo is somehow possible as a combo finisher, which I haven't seen anyone do yet. perhaps it's just not possible? If you think about it, it should be possible after an AoA~D now, considering the insanely reduced recovery on it. Also, AoA gives a lot of meter now, so it might not even be that bad to sacrifice a bit of HP if you could, this way, use Tentarafoo as a combo finisher.

Perhaps someone could test this out? I would greatly appreciate it.

 

I'm not sure if this is still in or not, but I recall reading in one of the early loketests that Tentarafoo could only hit grounded opponents. I suppose video footage would be useful for evidence, but Mitsuru's rarely use it. If it does work on airborne, I suppose they would need to be really close to the ground (so it would require some tricky timing). But, considering sweep is 21F and Tentarafoo SB is 22F, it might be possible to on crouching confirms. Something like 5AA > 5B > tentarafoo. Another set-up that might have some use in blockstrings is 2B > Tentarafoo for the high-low, if you're interested in those types of shenigans. 2B > sweep > droit B/SB is probably better, but ehh could be cool.

 

I mention that 2B > tentarafoo/sweep thing because LK said no one blocks it online awhile back, and it has some truth to it. So I could see adding tentarafoo as a possible additive.

 

Right now, the best use of Tentarafoo is probably against zoners full screen away.

 

As a consolation, it should be easier to do Mabufudyne combos now thanks to SB bufula, so we can still be a bit flashy.

 

@shtkn No problem. I don't think it's possible right now to see a Mitsuru aiming for just frame 2B, so we'll have to wait for consoles. Though I'll keep an eye out.

[LegendaryRath]

I actually have a few ideas for comboing into tentarafoo, but some of them might just be wishful thinking. I'm going to cross my fingers.

[LegendaryRath]

Thanks Reako for helping with the video thread. The format you used for the matches was perfect too! Anytime you guys feel like posting some Mitsuru footage, go right ahead. Occasionally, I'll update the main post with the new links, clean up the thread by deleting those posts, and give you guys credit for the help. It's what Zeth's been doing with the Azrael video thread until I took over, and I really thought it helped keep things organized.

 

AchedSphinx, I'll quote your post here in case anyone wants to discuss those matches too. From now on, I think I want the video thread to be only for posting links, using the general discussion thread for everything else.

 

 

I like how Yamashita improved quite a bit compared to the videos on 4/30. He still made some mistakes, but he got 2nd, and that's pretty sweet. His Mitsuru is also interesting to watch. A lot of spacing and playing passive, I suppose that's how Mitsuru's gameplan is now, but he was pretty aggressive a few of those games. But man, Shadow Labrys is looking insanely scary now. I'm not looking forward to that match-up. So many cross overs and that friggin DP of hers.

 

 

Yamashita is incredibly strong with Mitsuru already, which is no surprise. Considering how strong his fundamentals have always been, Mitsuru feels like an excellent fit for him. If he sticks with her, I feel that he could become the best Mitsuru. Period.

 

Shabrys definitely looks good though. I always felt that the matchup was slightly in Mitsuru's favor before, but I'm no so sure anymore. There's a few things I noticed that changed about the matchup though:

First, our 5AA has enough damage to break Asterius now, which is great. Safely taking persona cards from a distance is a big deal.

The 5A buff lets Mitsuru pressure shabrys from further away. In vanilla, her crouching height let her low profile max range 5A. But no more! This is pretty huge imo for all of the characters that could crouch it at distance before. Chie, Kanji, Lab, Shab, Naoto, Liz, etc.

I thought there was more, but my mind is blank right now. woops.

 

edit: I guess I double posted. If you guys ever feel bad about doing that, DONT. Double posting is A-OK with me. If you have something to say, please don't feel discouraged to make a new post to do it!

[Reako]

No problem at all. I'll try and add any footage I see. I'm glad to help. 

 

Also, I saw some other Yamashita footage, and though I am not sure whether this was newer or not, he did not show the same skill as before... Perhaps it was an older piece of footage? truly hope so, because he was doing so well. On the other hand, he did show some new interesting moves, such as auto combo with a Bufudyne C finish into Coup Droit A (Close enough to the corner, assuming if you had 25 SB to spare you could do it midscreen with a SB Coup Droit) into a A/B (Not sure) Myriad Arrows, holding it till the third tresshold. Interesting concept IMO, BUT it allowed the opponent to tech pretty much instantly and ended up killing him instead due to the high Myriad Arrows kick recovery. He intended for it to finish and then it would have been great, but it backfired because it JUST didn't finish them of. 

I am not sure if you can do the slower B version, but considering SB is just as fast as A, that one should be fine to use.

[LegendaryRath]

I think I remember the match you're talking about. It was with MAD (Teddie), I think, who is a fantastic player. Honestly, he just makes people look bad sometimes

 

 

[5/3/2014] ? (Yukari) vs ? (Mitsuru)

 

 

I'm sorry, I had trouble reading the usernames. The quality was too low.

(Not very high level play either... I would add more, but it hurt me to keep watching those matches. These players don't really show us how to play Mitsuru anyway, lol.)

 

I'm honestly pretty bad right now at reading names too. If it isn't a top player, where I can go by color choice and psr, I usually just ask Jourdal.

[Reako]

I forgot to mention that in the above combo you do not let the A Coup Droit connect. You just use it as a means to quickly get to your opponent. If you're already in the corner, I assume you'll be able to skip this and go straight for B Myriad Arrows (Instead of an A). I think you can do this from a runup midscreen as well.

And I'll add more footage as I see any, nothing has come up, though.

And indeed, MAD is an insane Teddie. He pretty much just annihilates his opponents. So you can't blame Yamashita for that, but I am honestly not sure whether those were the matches I was talking about. I'll edit this post if I come across them again. (Looking now)

 

Edit: On a side note, Maliwan shows an interesting new Berserk route for S.Mitsuru right here.

It's no where close to as optimal as the one(s) we have seen a thousand times before, but it's a fun idea to have in the back of your head when you want to finish it in a different. BUT here is the thing to it, (I think) it's burst safe! So it could be an insanely good finishing Berserk combo against opponents with a lower amount of health.

 

Edit2: I don't think it was Yamashita that I remember playing rather badly, but Maliwan. I must have somehow mixed them up. I remember Maliwan coming off as a rather promising S.Mitsuru. He seemed really interested in her too. But the footage (I posted it to the video thread) of him of a recent tournament didn't really show much promising... Maybe he just choked up? He seemed to know some cool combos, but he did some weird stuff at certain parts. Such as a 2B> 2DD> 2B, or a 2DD> 4> DP. Probably just messing up from nerves?

 

Edit3: I just noticed this ''altered'' route Maliwan went with didn't actually chain. It seemed the upponent just desided not to tech after recovering. Weird. Anywho, I still assume it's a working combo nonetheless, or I doubt Mariwan would execute it in a tournament match. Perhaps the timing is just somewhat more tricky?

[LegendaryRath]

Thanks again Raeko and Alex for helping with the video thread!

 

I feel like it's pretty safe to say that Yamashita is taking Mitsuru very seriously right now. That guy seems pretty creative. I was away from home all day yesterday and I will likely be today as well. Since I'd rather save my phone's data, I'll get around to watching all (149!) of his videos tonight or tomorrow. When I clean up the Main posts with all of the new links, I'll be sure to include his channel.

[AchedSphinx]

Thanks again Raeko and Alex for helping with the video thread!

 

I feel like it's pretty safe to say that Yamashita is taking Mitsuru very seriously right now. That guy seems pretty creative. I was away from home all day yesterday and I will likely be today as well. Since I'd rather save my phone's data, I'll get around to watching all (149!) of his videos tonight or tomorrow. When I clean up the Main posts with all of the new links, I'll be sure to include his channel.

You shouldn't worry too much about the combos he listed. Most of them are the same starter with slight variants. I think Reako highlighted the cooler ones though.

[Synyster17]

after watching this i think the shadow mit charge time has gone down https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heGGx43-x7M

there looks like she has little to no charge with her. i don't think this is just a change to shadow mit also

[LegendaryRath]

My theory was that the input for droit changes in shadow berserk from charge [4]6a/b to no charge 46a/b. I'll be more than happy to test it out Friday at evo.

[shtkn]

i bet a single back charge can be used for multiple droits.

 

can probably test it now, [4][6]A > OMC > [6]B

 

see if you get two drills

[LegendaryRath]

Doesn't seem to work. In retrospect, it's probably a good thing. Otherwise, confirming A coup > OMC > dash 5A would be really finicky.

[Synyster17]

maybe the charge time for the game has gone down?

[LegendaryRath]

maybe the charge time for the game has gone down?

That's a possibility, but the time between B coup and SB coup was so little that it looked like a gatling or something. I'm so curious about this...