[P4AU] Labrys Gameplay Discussion

[Stellarcircle5]

That's good to hear. I'm also aware that she isn't unplayable levels of bad, but the problem is virtually everyone in my scene uses top tiers besides one Kanji and one Akihiko, so every time I play it devolves into me getting destroyed XD

Thanks for the little bit of info though, I'll be sure to check back in after she develops a bit more!

[kro_]

Watch the Purepure match vids that were recently posted in the video thread. Labrys definitely looks a lot more threatening during block strings with the new hop cancels, dash cancels, and improvements to chain knuckle.

[Appledash-]

Watch the Purepure match vids that were recently posted in the video thread. Labrys definitely looks a lot more threatening during block strings with the new hop cancels, dash cancels, and improvements to chain knuckle.

Yeah, her new gatlings really help with pressure (and I love that hop is useable now). Overall getting more options is really cool for her.

[iora]

old labrys was not bad. its just she was straight forward, so your fundementals had to be really strong. and weak (pre awakening) reversal options meant you had to be good at blocking. when a mistake or two kills off a ton of health and axe levels, it felt worse than it was.

new labrys looks fun. and ive been getting the itch to play p4 a lil bit again. >_> who knows

[RurouniLoneWolf]

It's raining Labrys footage, Hallelujah! It's good to see that blue to red axe combos exists. Most of them cost an OMB but it's still nice to have the option available.

One thing I've noticed in the latest match videos is that Sakuma and Purepure seem to be using hop cancel j2B instead of hop cancel jB. Interesting. I'm guessing j2B is better because of its greater horizontal range and the fact that the hurt box on Labrys is further back, making her less vulnerable to mashing a bit. I also noticed that I have yet to see the new SB Tsurugi even once yet. Guess it isn't very useful for neutral but that isn't surprising if the C and D versions of it come out now. Would have preferred B and D versions. Oh well, can't win them all. I'm just glad to have more pressure options.

[redsilversnake]

I saw SB Tsurugi once. Forget where, but yeah, it might have some use, but for now, it's probably better to use the meter for axe level gain instead. I don't think it does the C and D versions, though; it's been a while, so I don't remember exactly, but I'm pretty sure either they were the B and C versions or had their own positioning.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

Oh really? It would be pretty interesting if they changed the formation from what it was in the loketest. B and C wouldn't be too bad. Definitely better than C and D. Hope I can see it in footage sometime before console release.

[shoryusatsu999]

Saw something interesting during this casuals video at about three minutes in: it appears that SB Air Guillotine has armor during startup.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

That's interesting. I wonder how much armor it has now. Might be good in a few situations.

[Lucalibur]

Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask, but how good is Labrys looking in P4U2 in comparison to vanilla? I wanted to pick her up in P4A but she was very...limited. Specially in gatling options. Does the new orb special buff her neutral game maybe? More gatings to help as well? What should I be expecting in general other than the old 'momentum based heavy damage potential' character?

[RurouniLoneWolf]

It's hard to say for sure since high level footage of Labrys is few and far in between but I'd say Labrys is more or less the same except with better pressure options. The universal addition of new dash and hop cancellable normals gives her more options. They're particularly good in red axe for building chip damage. I'm hoping they'll be good in lower axe levels for building the axe meter as well. That said, they're still vulnerable to mashing if you're getting too predictable so it's not too good an addition to her pressure but still a good and very welcome addition. The new orb/bubble/Hojuu doesn't seem that useful in neutral since it travels at IAD height instead of down on the ground. We've seen some potential for it in combos but I haven't seen any of those combos work their way into regular gameplay with Labrys yet.

So overall, still the same Labrys we're playing now but with better pressure options. Still room to grow though. I'm curious to see if SB Beast could potentially make Yellow Axe more threatening personally. And I would love to hear the current thoughts of top Labrys players like Purepure. This is just my assessment though.

[Lucalibur]

So she is roughly the same but less limited? Got it. That is pretty much the only issue I had with her to begin with. Damage was fine(as in crazy high which is just what I love), range was fine(fuck J.B though but apparently that got nerfed to fair levels), defense was fine(as in terrible)...I will give her a try again once the game is out. Thanks.

[redsilversnake]

She has actual gatlings now, her red axe combos apparently do more damage, and red axe lasts longer, but her oki got worse and Tectal says she has worse frame data. Overall, though, she is indeed less limited than before.

Something to keep in mind, though, is that the other characters got better too (far as I can tell, Elizabeth's the only one who got worse?), which is likely one reason one of the top Lab players says she's actually worse in this version.

[Surf]

What she gained didn't compensate for what she lost. She was better in Vanilla

[LordPangTong]

P4U2 Labrys actually troubles me. While the new gatlings/hop cancels help to improve her pressure, I don't think this makes up for the fact that her default axe level is now blue axe. Current P4U Labrys could spend 25 meter and bring herself up to red axe, which is where Labrys wants to be. Now, It seems the only way to go from blue -> red in one combo requires at least 25 meter plus a burst. Without that burst, the most you will get out of a 25 meter combo is yellow axe, which doesn't quite cut it. Her okizeme got a huge nerf with the removal of held sword trap so it is tougher for her to maintain momentum off a hit. Even moreso than in P4U, Labrys has issues holding her axe levels which severely limits her damage.

All just my opinion, but after all's said and done considering she has worse oki and spends less time in red axe, I'd say Labrys got worse.

[Tecta1Eastside]

A top JP Labrys Koma tweeted around a week ago that P4U Labrys is better than P4U2 Labrys.

P4U2 Labrys has Better OMB/Red Axe combos. P4U Labrys had the better oki/frame data.

I had been gathering info for awhile and made this pastebin with changes.

http://pastebin.com/k390LJrZ

Console Version isn't out yet so there's time for her to develop.

I can also say the same for other characters as well.

She still seems viable.

[Surf]

Those numbers are just sad to look at. Still not sure if I'm going to get this game. But if I do, I'm not playing Labrys.

[Tecta1Eastside]

While her frame data is worst, its in places where she special cancel her moves so she's safe.

Most of the changes are also on moves that are combo filler anyway.

5AAA being worse on block doesn't affect too much. That's unsafe in general. Combo filler.

2B being worse on block isn't too bad either. No one resets pressure from that in P4U.

[5B] is hard to land on block in general. DC buff lets you save 25 meter midscreen.

You no longer need to use SB chain kunckle after [5B] midscreen.

[2B] is also hard to land on block in general. Its not really used in blockstrings.

Starting at blue axe isn't that bad. You still spend 25 SP to get to yellow axe.

Even without 25SP, you only need to go up two axe levels to deal solid meterless damage.

Yellow axe 5A starter midscreen still does 2.6k meterless. Good corner carry.

The bnb works better than yellow axe chain knuckle combos.

P4U she didn't have a stable midscreen bnb at all ranges on yellow axe 5A for 2.6k meterless.

236A~A follow-up can be special cancelled to be made safe.

Blue to Red axe OMB bnbs are just an extra runback combo.

You usually have the 75SP for that when you're losing.

Whether you have the OMB for it depends but bnb exist.

Tsurugi is better overall imo outside of not being able to combo from grab>tsurugi.

It has more blockstun which it needed alot.

Its at least easier/safer to run a mix-up when the opponent blocks the spike.

4F slower hurts but the trade off is better.

Grab>tsurugi would still be risky because you lose a persona card if your opponent techs your grab.

I haven't seen a match where anyone is doing the new yellow/red axe bnbs.

From Gray to Green axe, there isn't a better meterless option from 5A/2A.

I just see 5A starter: 5AA>5B>sweep>22x meterless on every axe level midscreen.

Same for the corner.

P4U you saw 5AAA>AOA>22x meterless corner and/or

5A>5B>sweep meterless midscreen on every axe level alot in matches.

Better stuff existed in P4U on higher axe levells meterless and should exist in P4U2.

I agree with other characters being better but she's probably not that weak where she can't beat Narukami/Chie etc.

[redsilversnake]

4F slower hurts but the trade off is better.

Wouldn't it being slower just be to have it work as oki? It seems like they noticed that was practically all it was used for, which is probably why they removed the button hold to begin with.

I haven't seen a match where anyone is doing the new yellow/red axe bnbs.

Well, to be fair, there hasn't exactly been a whole lot of footage of her lately. Some players may very well be doing them, we just haven't seen it because we only get to see a tiny fraction of play.

I agree with other characters being better but she's probably not that weak where she can't beat Narukami/Chie etc.

Maybe not enough to bump those down to 7-3, but I can see why Koma was pretty pessimistic. She didn't really get some of the things she needed even though certain other characters got things they didn't deserve, so I can see her worse MUs getting at least slightly harder.

[Tecta1Eastside]

I agree with all of the above.

The main practical use for spike was suppose to be oki for a free mix-up.

The spike just didn't reward you with enough blockstun before.

I would have taken a better awakening mode and other things.

I do see some MUs potentially becoming worse too. Its still early in the game's lifespan too

If things play-out like before, we may not get alot of Labrys footage.

With the console release being far away, its harder to learn how fight the other characters and finish developing Labrys also.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

In case there is anyone who hasn't noticed yet, Labrys frame data is starting to appear on the wiki. Big thanks to however is doing it! Going to wait until it's done until I come to any final conclusions since some stuff might not be done yet but so far my thoughts are

 

- Minimum 46 frames of start up on the bubble = me most likely never using it in neutral

- Being able to get 2 different configurations from SB Tsurugi based on what buttons you press is very nice

- No more 1f invuln on Gears ;.; ASW? Why?!

- SB Gears being  +63 is verynice. I wonder if we can get any good oki setups going from this

- SB Brutal Impacts damage is looking too good to ignore. I'm going to have to try and find some practical uses for it.

[CrushingEagle]

P4U2 v1.1 Patch Notes, Translation by Sourenga:

 

- She starts the match with Green Axe now

- Hojuu:

 > Persona's recovery decreased; Can be dash-cahcelled earlier

 > D/SB version's projectile lands on the ground now

- Gears got its Frame 1 invulnerability back

 

Source: http://www.arcsystemworks.jp/p4u2/images/imp/info140418.pdf

[RurouniLoneWolf]

My thoughts:

 

- Starting with the axe level at green again is a nice buff. It means we should be able to go straight to Red axe by spending meter again, which is a very good thing since Red Axe combos do more damage now and SB Beast could make green to red axe combos pack a much bigger punch.

 

- Gears being 1f invuln again is good. I'm still not sure why ASW ever felt the need to take it away to begin with. Maybe they thought the change to Brutal Impact was a lot better than it actually was?

 

- Not sure what to think of the change to Hojuu to be honest. I'm guessing reduced persona recovery and being able to dash cancel earlier will open up new combo routes in the corner and midscreen respectively. The second point on the change is interesting but I'm unclear about what it really means. I'll have to see it in action first before I can get an idea what it'll be good for. 

[Strife]

- Not sure what to think of the change to Hojuu to be honest. I'm guessing reduced persona recovery and being able to dash cancel earlier will open up new combo routes in the corner and midscreen respectively. The second point on the change is interesting but I'm unclear about what it really means. I'll have to see it in action first before I can get an idea what it'll be good for. 

 

The old Hojuu used to pass above everyone's heads. It was pretty useless outside of combos. Maybe with this change (the projectile going down) she might be able to apply okizeme with it.

[RurouniLoneWolf]

The old Hojuu used to pass above everyone's heads. It was pretty useless outside of combos. Maybe with this change (the projectile going down) she might be able to apply okizeme with it.

 

Possibly. I'm sure Platinum style corner bubble oki is the first thing that sprung up in all our heads when we first that she has a bubble move of her own now.  So it would be pretty neat if this were true. I think what really has me curious is just how the bubble is going to go down. Will it slowly descend down as it goes across the screen sort in a diagonal? Will it go down in a predetermined curve? Will it go to the edge of the screen and then just drop down? Will it just go vertically down from the start and not move horizontally at all? Some of these paths have some potential to be good in neutral, which is why I'm really curious to see it in action.