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[P4AU] Yukiko Amagi Gameplay Discussion

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Yukiko Changes from P4A

Latest Patch Notes (4/26/14)
  • Will update when more changes are found
    Agi
    + A-version has increased untechable time for the opponent
    +/- Charge it for a certain time, and it will explode twice
    Dancing Flames
    - A-version: Persona stays on-screen for a shorter time
    - Damage nerfed
    - B and SB version: If used as the first move in the combo, combo damage nerfed even more
    Fire Boost High
    + Faster recovery

  • General System Changes: Dustloop Wiki
  • New Move - Dancing Flames: 214A/B (SB version available); Sakuya moves forward with fire ahead of her.
  • New Move - Vermillion Bird: 214214A/B (only available with Fire Boost lvl. 6; hold possible); Sakuya moves forward at a fast speed while on fire You'll know it when you see it. Full-screen and goes through projectiles.

    Buffs
    + Overall damage from combos has gone up.
    + 6B and D Maragi are faster.
    + Dia has better recovery and not in a FC state.
    + Fire Boost does not drain health anymore. (Both versions)
    + 214A/B extends combos and makes it hard to punish Yukiko. Usually used to end blockstrings as well.
    + New 5AAA puts opponent in spin state and gives you an unavoidable unblockable setup with Fire Break D Maragi.

    Nerfs
    - Combos and footsies are harder. (Stunedge's twitter)
    - 5C no longer FC.
    - 4B and C Maragi is slower.
    - Can not consistently use Agi B full-screen oki.
    - 2D unblockables are inconsistent.
    - Does not appear possible to CH confirm with j.B or 2B on air hit anymore.

    Misc.
    +/- Has 5 Persona cards
    +/- Auto-combo has motion from air-throw that brings the opponent closer.
    +/- 2C is hop cancellable.
    +/- 5C/2C is still dash cancellable.
    +/- SB Agi places an Agi near Yukiko and the opponent.
    +/- Fire Break, 2D and 3D (not 1D), and all versions of Maragi have FC state. (Stunedge's twitter)
    +/- There is now an EX version of Maragidyne that costs 70SP and covers the whole screen. It also has invul.
    +/- D version of Agidyne has Sakuya move backwards towards wherever Yukiko is now. Still goes upward and is in this video. Every time I have seen it used, she always moves back the same way so I believe that you can not control where she moves.
    +/- You can see a faint outline of where Agi is placed if held. (Also noticed this happened with Naoto's persona when it was invisible so it's probably just a general change)

Edited by pktazn

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Yes I believe so. It's hard to tell though since I've only seen it used in combos and in all the videos I've seen so far, no one is throwing it out by itself.

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I've seen a few matches where Sakuya was hit when under Dancing Flames although I can check again.

Some notes judging from videos, to confirm some of the loketest changes and whatnot:

- Doesn't seem possible to CH confirm with j.B or 2B on air hit anymore.

- She can no longer consistently do her Agi B full-screen oki like she could in P4A. It's not completely impossible but from the looks of it Agi knocks opponents farther back than where the fire spawns, so there's a lot of room for the opponent to deal with that. Along with Sakuya always being fixed at Yukiko's location and the new untech time it's not possible to do it without drastically lowering the damage, which isn't worth it imo. As for Maragi loops, I think I saw one Yukiko do a single Maragi loop from SB Agi but there's definitely some loss in pressure from the Agi change.

- It also looks like she can't do her 2D unblockables anymore. Her 5D looks fine though, I've seen some Yukikos still do 5D and follow up with some blockstrings.

- To compensate, she definitely does way more damage on her BnBs. I've seen 2.5k to 2.8k on 5A starters meterless, with potential for more with meter. I haven't seen any other combos with starters outside of 5A, 2A or j.A so I don't know how her other starters are affected by the changes.

- 214A/B is insanely good. It extends her combos and it is really hard to punish Yukiko herself because it moves her back.

- Fire Break and SB Maragidyne is a really hilarious finisher. Did 1.8k on an awakened opponent with no fire levels, so it's quite decent if you need to get that sliver of health.

She also didn't get Fatal Countered state when hit under Dia. Pretty sure she didn't get FC'd when using j.B either but I'll need to watch more videos to make sure.

Just wondering, is 214214A/B an actual super or is it the special that throws out the fire bird projectile? I've seen the projectile (and it is lulzy) but not the super, so I'm going to assume that 214214A/B is the projectile instead.

Edited by Etherlight

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Just wondering, is 214214A/B an actual super or is it the special that throws out the fire bird projectile? I've seen the projectile (and it is lulzy) but not the super, so I'm going to assume that 214214A/B is the projectile instead.

Thanks for the observations! I'll add some of them to the first post as well.

214214A/B is only a special not a super. And yes it's the amazingly lulzy fire bird projectile looking thing.

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According to Stunedge's tweet, only Fire Break, 2D and 3D (but not 1D), and all versions of Maragi have FC state. Much better news than having her fans or Dia on FC state.

Edited by Etherlight

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Some other things I've noticed:

- Fire Boost no longer drains health when used. This goes for both C and SB versions

- 5C is no longer a fatal counter move

- Still looks like she can't jump cancel j.C

- SB Agi places one agi near Yukiko and another near the opponent. Not quite what we heard during the second loketest about it going to A and B Agi's locations. This means Maragi loops are still possible but pressuring with SB Agi from full screen isn't

- 5C/2C dash cancel is still in, haven't seen anyone hop cancel them yet but I assume that's still in

- 6B goes faster

- C Maragi goes slower and D appears faster

- You can still combo off in CH 2B in some circumstances. The opponent just doesn't fall all the way to the ground anymore

- New 5AAA puts opponent in spin state and gives you an unavoidable unblockable setup with Fire Break D Maragi.

- Can't find the video I saw of it during week 1 but Vermillion Bird looks godlike. Goes through other projectiles and is armored. Also usable in the air. Not a super although it oddly uses a super's input

That's about all I can think of. I haven't really been taking notes, this is all from my head. If anybody noticed other changes I missed feel free to post them.

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to add to papermarkis notes (thank you for this too btw!)

-2C is hop cancel but I'm not so sure about 5C ( I seen H.H hope cancel 2C from a 5C>2C string)

- 214 A/B seems to be used more to end her blockstrings now than Maragi and sometimes agi. I'm guessing because C Maragi is slower and her Agi has changed so 214 A/B is a better ender.

- 5AA stagger pressure seems more unsafe now because of the change to her auto combo

- Vermillon Bird is extremely good and useful in certain matchups like S.Lab and Aigis. Goes through projectiles and hits fullscreen and has great reach.

-6B is faster and 4B is slower

-2D unblockable still works just harder to consistently do

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Looks like 4B fan goes slow enough that we can run with it. We Guile now

I was just thinking that. I don't consider that a nerf. Much more effective than it was before.

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just an interesting observation about 4_5_6 B.

as people have noticed, the speed for these three moves are different (4B is slowest, 5B in the middle, 6B fastest).

if Yukiko uses 5B6B from full screen, the two fans hit almost at exactly the same time. this time difference make or break a combo.

eg, at long distances 4BB, 6D combos, but not 5_6BB, 6D. also, 1B, 6BB, 5C, 6BB combos, but not 1B, 5BB, 5C, 4_5BB

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Question.

I know that CH 1/2/3B -> Maragi no longer works as an anti-air confirm; does CH 1/2/3B -> B Mai work? And if it does how much do you get off of it (or alternatively if there's a better confirm, what is it?)

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All Shadow characters have their original auto-attack combo and all of the other Shadow mechanics (reduced damage, meter gain, .etc etc).

I don't see many S.Yukiko but from what I've seen, I'm not surprised because there's really no real benefit to going S.Yukiko. Losing her new auto combo is pretty huge just because of how easy it is to convert into high damage with Auto Combo + Fire Break. She can spam Maragidynes with shadow bursts but I don't think her specials cancel well with each other enough to warrant using it (214 A/B can cancel well with each other but that alone wouldn't make me go S.Yukiko). On top of losing a Burst, I don't think it's worth it at all.

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Ah, I was under the impression that it was like Melty moons where most/all of the moves were different. Is that limited to specific moves like Yu's j.D? I remember people saying it was super fast in loketests and not usable as an oki tool anymore, etc.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

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Is that limited to specific moves like Yu's j.D?

All existing moves that were changed for P4U2 (such as Yu's 5D oki no longer giving easy oki set-ups) still apply to the Shadow mode characters, the only difference is that their auto-combos are still the same from the previous game. So S.Yukiko has the new P4U2 changes and her new special moves but instead of the new auto-combo she gets the P4A auto-combo.

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Does anyone know if the new 5AAA is OMC-able? Seems like an extremely likely place people will be saving their bursts for.

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Going with that, I'm wondering if you can jump cancel her 5AAA on hit. Would be another alternative to bait bursts but I think once people understand the match-up more they'll burst AFTER she uses her Fire Break (aka during the start-up of Maragi and when the Fire Break meter turns gray).

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@papermarkis- Yes, the new auto combo is OMC-able. It is in fact the most common place where players are bursting the unblockable maragi setup. Haven't seen any JP Yukikos OMC'ing on reaction to burst there, however. If you hard bait without the reaction, the loss of damage would be huge. I'm pretty sure their mindset is that if anything, it will force the other person to use their burst after getting hit by 5AAA.

@Etherlight- 5AA is jc-able, but I don't think 5AAA is. (No video has indicated so thus far) Some players do burst after 236D is input, but the 236D is active enough that it punishes the burst with it's second hit. Yukiko can't combo it obviously, but I think this may deter some people from bursting that point.

On the note of Shadow Yukiko, I think the general consensus on her is that she's flat out inferior to regular Yukiko. Yukiko's new auto combo is an enormous buff because it leads to the unblockable setup that does large (and easy) damage. Plus, she has a burst to work with. Shadow goes back to the old auto combo, so she has no braindead unblockable to run. I have a hunch that she has untapped potential in shadow rampage mode that we haven't seen yet, but I don't know that it makes up for the loss of her unblockable in regular form. Luckily, I will soon be able to test her myself when I move to Japan in a little over a month.

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I really hope that more Yukiko players start to use Vermillion bird more I feel it has a lot of potential and can be pretty helpful against her bad macthups. I know getting to lvl.6 Fire Boost can be a hassle and might not be worth it in the long run but I really want to see more this move and what it can do. 

 

Also I see that 236 AB is a better anti air in this game than it was in P4U which is great it helps out her zoning a lot and now that you can throw 4BB now (2 fans) this will help cover her gaps and holes in the air so it'll be a lot easier to anti air moves like Narukami's 214B and Yosuke's glide. 

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YUKIKO

Agi
- A-version has increased untechable time for the opponent
- Charge it for a certain time, and it will explode twice
Dancing Flames
- A-version: Persona stays on-screen for a shorter time
- Damage nerfed
- B and SB version: If used as the first move in the combo, combo damage nerfed even more
Fire Boost High
- Faster recovery

 

From the newest patch notes. The Agi A increased untech time is very nice, honestly I'm not sure why it was lowered to begin. Maybe we'll see the TK Agi A combos again. Exploding twice sounds interesting. Fire Amp is a nice buff too, a little more incentive to get to Fire Lv. 6.

 

Nerfs for Dancing Flames but nothing too serious. 214B/SB make the bulk of her combos so 214A nerf hardly means much (maybe you can't AAA > 214A > 5C anymore? No idea). The nerfs to B and SB don't change much either since they're not combo starters outside of Fire Break starters but that's not a big deal.

 

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Someone should definitely fix this thread's title.

 

Anyways, new combo video. It shows combos and setups using the new 1.1 Agi.

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