[CP1.1] Tsubaki Yayoi Changes and Discussion

[TheGreatReptar]

Oh wait, 6C is cancelable on block now? I couldn't care less if 6C>j.D stuff doesn't work anymore. That stuff was straight gimmicks and didn't work on people who had seen it before already. Being able to do 5B>6C>421A sounds amazing though. I thought the translation was no longer cancelable, so I thought the jump cancel was getting removed.

I can't really be annoyed with any of Tsubaki's changes now. She's like exactly the same just with probably nerfed mugen damage, which I would have put money on SMP getting worse for her.

[Daedron]

You also need to take into account that these are definitely not the only changes. Nearly 1.5 years and the best they can do is 3-4 changes per character? Really doubtful.

But these changes are a good indicator of what we can expect. Hopefully some notable JPN Tsubaki player gets to play the build this week.

[TheGreatReptar]

Oh of course. Kokonoe apparently has a bunch of unlisted changes.

Just gotta wait and hope someone with enough Tsubaki experience to be able to tell what her changes are shows up.

[Zouf]

Being able to do 5B>6C>421A sounds amazing though.

[4]6C is -2 on block, so not so amazing unless they tweak this.

[Errol]

with the nerfs to 6c blockstun you're going to be mashed out of fireball now.

not to mention you could do fireball before with jcc, you just had to ready to charge it when you input 6c.

but yeah - unlisted changes - hope there's more to it. But if there is it makes you wonder why they would publicize these changes, too. but whatever.

[Airk]

but yeah - unlisted changes - hope there's more to it. But if there is it makes you wonder why they would publicize these changes, too. but whatever.

Well, a couple of possible reasons:

#1: They're not even done making them. This wouldn't shock me much.

#2: Some changes just don't 'type up' easily. "Adjusted hitbox on Move X." is kinda vague and useless.

#3: Left hand not talking to right hand. Whoever sent out the 'change list' to the magazine probably didn't know all the changes.

#4: These are only the "interesting" changes.

#5: Mori selected these changes to troll the community.

Who knows. Arc has NEVER been good about full disclosure.

[zaeris]

I'm liking 6a changes, now I don't have the worry about people jumping out of my 6a set up, probably annoys me that a 6a air unblock able was tech-able.

And yay for new fireball command, no more block counter poke 5b into fireball lol a least I can feel I have earn my 3k damage + from every 5b ch

The rest of the change I can live with

[Kiba]

You can see Tsubaki in the update here

Projectile has faster startup. I don't expect to see the D version used in neutral now.

[Errol]

it actually looks really good. will have to see..

[Daedron]

So it seems the changes posted so far really are the only ones...?

What a huge disappointment, nearly 1.5 years into CP's lifespan and they can't even make more than 3-4 changes to existing chars. I know the update isn't called CP2 or anything similar but come on. ;_;

[Airk]

You can see Tsubaki in the update here

Projectile has faster startup. I don't expect to see the D version used in neutral now.

Is it super cynical to guess that they probably didn't change the D version at all so now it's only ever going to be used for [4]6D>236D?

[Daedron]

Of course not, having the D version actually being usable in neutral (same with j.236D) would make Tsubaki more solid and we don't want that.

[Zouf]

The D version still has a faster recovery, but losing a stock for a few recovery frames...

Anyway i don't like this "buff" at all. I want my fireball to be slow so it covers the field for a longer time, which is the primary goal (to me) of this fireball.

Also seeing how fast it is now, the fireball okizeme won't work any longer. It's working now because at the time you recover, the fireball is still at very close range. If you delay this new improved fireball to match the tech time of the opponent, i doubt you'll have the advantage on guard.

[Daedron]

I'm sure we'll find something.

[Airk]

Well, there are two things that make a fireball desirable:

FAST overall animation time

and

SLOW travel speed.

With luck, we've traded one for the other. Without it, our fireball just got a lot worse.

[TheGreatReptar]

Did it look like j.D had less landing recovery to anyone else?

Specifically at a little after 11:35 in the video

[Zouf]

P1 from air moves is effectively reduced

In this video, j.B > j.CC > j.214D > 3CC does 1734 damage, VS 1895 in the current version

j.CC > j.236A > j.214X : 1612 vs 1666

P2 was unchanged (236D > 6C > j.D > j.C > 5C > 2CC > IAD JCC > 5C > 2C > rekka deals the same damage)

[Daedron]

Did it look like j.D had less landing recovery to anyone else?

Specifically at a little after 11:35 in the video

It was one thing I was looking for but...it's just way too hard tell. to be honest it would make sense if it was reduced if we look at the 6C hitstop nerf, since 6C > j.D > j.A/j.B was a safe blockstring before against anyone without a DP afaik, but you could get mashed out when you landed cause of the landing recovery. So instead they might have made that unsafe (it's AA'able now for the entire cast) and instead reduced landing recovery of j.D to make it so that if they respect it they can't mash out when you land?

Just theoryfighting here but I sure wouldn't mind if 2A > j.D > j.C or 5B > j.D > j.C became valid blockstrings for people who respect them...like Plat's Swallow moon! :V

[chzchan]

Well I'm mad. Looking over all the changes for other characters it just seems like Tsubaki is getting the short end of the stick yet again.

I was already able to cancel into a command grab off of a blocked 6C by doing 632147C so if the trading of "reduced hitstop" for special cancel-ability results in the opponent being able to recover earlier it really feels like a nerf.

The change to 6A is great I guess, but getting an air hit off with 6A happens so rarely that I don't think it will matter. Most people just jump out of it safely because of how slow it starts up and how little range it has.

Fireball input was a much needed change, but it really seems like it should have been like this already. Faster start up is a plus, but increased projectile speed might hurt its utility.

Harsher SMP on Mugen attacks really kills her potential damage output. I always thought that she was a potential-based character in that if the opponent allows her to reach that potential then they have to deal with the fact that she does actually good damage in comparison to how little she does normally. It really is pretty depressing.

Distortion change is fine, but I wonder what it will look like exactly. Will it place Tsubaki right in front of an opponent after use?

[Zouf]

Distortion change is fine, but I wonder what it will look like exactly. Will it place Tsubaki right in front of an opponent after use?

Probably what happens in 11:35

Koko takes the 46D > 236D super charge in anti air, yet flies forward instead of backward (i'm pretty sure she would have flown backward in this situation).

They changed this as well, meaning the patchlog wasn't complete. I guess they tweaked some others stuff here and there (let's all pray for a better 2B)

[Daedron]

Most changes so far have been to the newer characters, with the old ones not receiving too many changes (though some are pretty drastic like Valk's changes apparently). In any case since this update was announced last month, maybe they actually started working on it since then and not earlier, focusing a lot on the console only chars. And perhaps from now until the release they'll focus on the older characters?

I mean just 3-4 small changes and a nerfed Makoto, when CP has been out for so long just seems a bit odd.

Though it would mean we would get a non-tested balance update...since no loketests will be taking place I wager.

[Kiba]

Did it look like j.D had less landing recovery to anyone else?

Specifically at a little after 11:35 in the video

Actually no but I'll keep a lookout!

Harsher SMP on Mugen attacks really kills her potential damage output. I always thought that she was a potential-based character in that if the opponent allows her to reach that potential then they have to deal with the fact that she does actually good damage in comparison to how little she does normally. It really is pretty depressing.

It also weakens our heat gain but not by that much. With 2 charge (or 2 and a quarter), we can currently do:

CH 5C > 6C > 214214D > [4]6D > 236D x2 > 623D > j.236D > j.214D > 2C > 623C > j.236A > j.214A is 7338 Damage and 44 Heat gain.

In the coming update I suspect we'd be using:

CH 5C > 6C > 214214D > 421D > 236D > 623D > j.236D > j.214D > 214D > 5C > 2C > 236B > 214B > 22B is 6458 Damage and 38 Heat gain.

We're losing on about 900 damage, and also remember the 1st combo also helped us with getting heat to use a 2nd DD if you had 64 heat when initiating mugen (because you could followup 623D > j.236D > j.214D with 214D > 22D > 6C). We're gonna need more now.

6.4k is still really good compared to what she normally does anyway. Rather than blowing them away and losing oki, we can keep 'em closer.

[Zouf]

6.5k is not so huge for what it asks.

Pretty huge nerf for her, another one....

[Kiba]

I give up.

[Zouf]

Don't give up :P

You are right, sorry, let's move on. It's not like this combo was our main gameplan anyway. Though i liked its flashiness.

I just hope they fix the 623D > j.236D > j.214D whiffing on some characters (Azrael mainly)

With what we know, Tsubaki still plays the same 90% of the time. This update is disappointing in this matter, i would have loved some more drastic changes.