Moderately new, have some questions.

[StarBornGG]

So this is my first serious fighter I've ever played. I played around for a bit after getting really into P4: Golden, and originally liked Mitsuru but felt as if I couldn't do anything. As in, my attacks felt meaningless, or had little to no fluidity. I picked up Chie, and I'm not sure what happened but I fell in love immediately with her rush down style of play.

 

I even played at Colossalcon and only one person was capable of beating me while I was on. I'm not claiming to be some prodigy but the point is I understand the game fairly well and know what I need to do to win.

 

Now, back to my point. I'm very new to fighters. I have no idea what any terms, or abbreviations, or anything are. I'm also considering getting a fighter stick (is that what it's called?). Is there a recommended one of those for P4 Arena or something? Is it even worth buying? I really enjoy the game so I'd like something that isn't considered "entry level" but more something that's considered to be good. How can I learn these types of things? I have lots of experience with other video games and can generally figure out terms very quickly, but without talking in communities like this all of the time, there's no real way to do that with this game.

 

Another question I wanted to ask was how relevant are all of the characters in this game? Is there a tier list? They all seem pretty decent so far, except for Shadow Labrys and Elizabeth. I know Mitsuru is good from watching competitive play but I can't seem to make her work. I ask this because while I heavily enjoy playing Chie, I like the zoning style that Yukiko has. But if she's not good, I don't really want to sink time into her vs what I've heard about Chie being incredibly strong. 

 

Sorry for all of the noob questions, but I gotta start somewhere I suppose.

[Elochai]

Hi, welcome to the forums! If you want to get acquainted with the terminology that we use here on Dustloop (and that players use in other avenues of communication) I suggest that you check out this page. It contains pretty much everything you need to know regarding fighting game terms.

Using a fight stick is a preference. I would suggest trying a stick, and then buying one if you like the feel of it. I will admit that it takes a lot of getting used to, but ever since I made the transition to stick, I feel no desire to go back. I like the "feel" of it better than pad. In terms of sticks, I don't believe that you could go wrong with a Qanba (which I would suggest because it's dual modded right out of the box) or a Madcatz TE. 

Learning FGs in general just takes some practice and seeking help when you get stuck. Expect to lose a lot; with that being said, you shouldn't let losses discourage you. Losing doesn't really matter as long as you're learning or improving your game. Feel free to ask questions in the appropriate forum or what have you, most of the members here are very helpful. 

 

Here's the last P4U tier list from Arcadia.

 

 

I would suggest that you play whatever character you like, regardless of whether they're top tier or low tier. However, if you're just playing to win and solely for that reason, then picking a top tier just for the sake of them being top tier is fine I guess. You were mostly right in your supposition though, and Elizabeth isn't the strongest character in this game; Shadow Labrys is pretty good though. Again, just pick whichever character you like/feel comfortable with. I've pretty much played Elizabeth exclusively since day 1, and I've no qualms.

I hope this post somewhat helped you in some way. If you have further questions, feel free to ask them.

[StarBornGG]

Hi, welcome to the forums! If you want to get acquainted with the terminology that we use here on Dustloop (and that players use in other avenues of communication) I suggest that you check out this page. It contains pretty much everything you need to know regarding fighting game terms.

Using a fight stick is a preference. I would suggest trying a stick, and then buying one if you like the feel of it. I will admit that it takes a lot of getting used to, but ever since I made the transition to stick, I feel no desire to go back. I like the "feel" of it better than pad. In terms of sticks, I don't believe that you could go wrong with a Qanba (which I would suggest because it's dual modded right out of the box) or a Madcatz TE. 

Learning FGs in general just takes some practice and seeking help when you get stuck. Expect to lose a lot; with that being said, you shouldn't let losses discourage you. Losing doesn't really matter as long as you're learning or improving your game. Feel free to ask questions in the appropriate forum or what have you, most of the members here are very helpful. 

 

Here's the last P4U tier list from Arcadia.

 

 

I would suggest that you play whatever character you like, regardless of whether they're top tier or low tier. However, if you're just playing to win and solely for that reason, then picking a top tier just for the sake of them being top tier is fine I guess. You were mostly right in your supposition though, and Elizabeth isn't the strongest character in this game; Shadow Labrys is pretty good though. Again, just pick whichever character you like/feel comfortable with. I've pretty much played Elizabeth exclusively since day 1, and I've no qualms.

I hope this post somewhat helped you in some way. If you have further questions, feel free to ask them.

How do you read that chart?

[RifleAvenger]

The characters from left to right correspond to the same order from top to bottom.  Leftmost column indicates the Character being played, and the top row shows the character being played against.  The number in a box is the advantage, or disadvantage, a character has against another.  For example, second to last row, first white column is Elizabeth versus Yu.  Elizabeth performs badly versus Yu, and so has a hefty -1.5 (This translates to a 3.5 - 6.5 matchup in favor of Yu.  A 5 - 5 matchup, or +0, is even).  Boxes with a slash are mirror matches; you can't hold any particular advantage over the same character!  If you get confused as to who's who in the chart, look for these boxes, since you can trace them easily back to the character.

 

The rightmost column is an aggregate of all a character's matchups.  Liz, at -5.5, is the worst character on the list; Chie, at +10, is the best.

[Justice7541]

How do you read that chart?

It's a matchup chart. Going horizontally is how that character does against each other character in the cast (the characters are in the same order going vertically as horizontally in case you can't read the Japanese names, which you probably can't).

Matchups are out of 10, so a 5 (+/- 0) means that the characters are dead even. A +1 (6) means that the character is expected to win, on average, 6 times out of 10 in that matchup. The tier list totals the character's aggregate advantages/disadvantages to determine who is considered the best. As you can see Chie is very high up.

Tier lists assume that the players are super high level and capable of doing basically everything, and know the opponent's character just as well as they know theirs, so technically it applies to very few actual players. That said high tier characters do tend to be stronger in general for reasons most people can grasp (i.e. Aigis having ridiculous mixup and ridiculous damage) so it remains relevant, although you shouldn't be going in with "I picked this top tier so I'm basically guaranteed to win" or vice versa as a mindset.

[Elochai]

I should also mention that under each character's name, there is a list of players who, iirc, gave their opinions to create this list. I believe that most people would say that they're top players (ie Die-chan Mitsuru, Okusan Nikuya Elizabeth, torowa Yosuke, etc), and their opinions on the subject are valid. With that being said, that's why the numbers on this chart aren't exactly congruent with each other. You could argue that the chart could be read as Elizabeth vs Narukami feels like it is 3.5-6.5 to Elizabeth players, whereas Narukami players feel that the matchup is 4-6 in Narukami's favor. Though the differences aren't that major, they are interesting nonetheless. 

[MegaBlues]

I think it's interesting that the Chie players feel as if they have an advantage over everyone. Except for Yu, of course.

[Justice7541]

I think if you were a Chie or Yu player you'd feel that way too.  And even if you weren't because lolyu

[MegaBlues]

I do play Chie. And it feels like I have to earn a lot of victories. Getting in takes a lot of effort.

[AchedSphinx]

I do play Chie. And it feels like I have to earn a lot of victories. Getting in takes a lot of effort.

 

Well, Chie doesn't necessarily have to work that hard. Once she gets one hit confirm it's a one player game which is pretty tough for the person on the receiving end. But I suppose that's just from personal experience.

 

I think that tier list has a few typos or something. The match-up between Kanji and Elizabeth is 5.5-5.5, which, uh, doesn't make sense. I assumed it was in Elizabeth's favor, but who knows at super high levels of play.

 

Oh and yes you should pick players you enjoy most. I picked Mitsuru up because I watched some videos before P4A released consoles and liked how far her normals reach. It was really cool to watch. I didn't pick her up because high-tier. And chances are I'm going to pick up one of the Shos in P4U2 because of the normals. I have odd reasons why I pick up characters. Like I'm probably going to end up picking up Rise because of her walking backward animation.

 

Anyways, pick who you enjoy, tier lists come later.

 

Also, I find that tier list pretty funny. I assume most of the netplay community doesn't know of it because every time I use Mitsuru in a lobby they declare her the most OP character in the game. She's good, not going to lie, but whenever I face a Chie I cringe like no other.

[Pssych]

(Yosuke's MU chart is mostly accurate)

 

Tiers / Matchups don't really come into play until played the highest level. Play who you enjoy.

[OmnixTSC]

I think that tier list has a few typos or something. The match-up between Kanji and Elizabeth is 5.5-5.5, which, uh, doesn't make sense. I assumed it was in Elizabeth's favor, but who knows at super high levels of play.

 

I think the MU chart was trying to say that players on both sides of the chart feel the MU is in or not in their favor? At the end of the day, the MU is 5-5 at high levels.

 

 

Tiers / Matchups don't really come into play until played the highest level. Play who you enjoy.

 

As Pssych pointed out, unless you're pushing for the higher levels of play in this game (or any game for that matter), tiers come 2nd to playing what you enjoy. Just have fun and put in the necessary work to improve. It'll carry you a long way until you encounter players in the top 1%.

[DairyDude]

Are you in the Ohio area, I was at Collosalcon last week too, but I didn't get.play a Chie

[MegaBlues]

Are you in the Ohio area, I was at Collosalcon last week too, but I didn't get.play a Chie

 

If you mean me, no. I'm in the Southeastern Virginia area.

[Justice7541]

Well, Chie doesn't necessarily have to work that hard. Once she gets one hit confirm it's a one player game which is pretty tough for the person on the receiving end. But I suppose that's just from personal experience.

I think that tier list has a few typos or something. The match-up between Kanji and Elizabeth is 5.5-5.5, which, uh, doesn't make sense. I assumed it was in Elizabeth's favor, but who knows at super high levels of play.

Oh and yes you should pick players you enjoy most. I picked Mitsuru up because I watched some videos before P4A released consoles and liked how far her normals reach. It was really cool to watch. I didn't pick her up because high-tier. And chances are I'm going to pick up one of the Shos in P4U2 because of the normals. I have odd reasons why I pick up characters. Like I'm probably going to end up picking up Rise because of her walking backward animation.

Anyways, pick who you enjoy, tier lists come later.

Also, I find that tier list pretty funny. I assume most of the netplay community doesn't know of it because every time I use Mitsuru in a lobby they declare her the most OP character in the game. She's good, not going to lie, but whenever I face a Chie I cringe like no other.

She might not be THE most OP character in the game, but she's definitely one of them, along with Yu/Aigis/Chie.

[Anne]

She might not be THE most OP character in the game, but she's definitely one of them, along with Yu/Aigis/Chie.

Yeah I'm just going to stop this discussion right now.

[TAI-X]

My post got buried in the sticky thread so I'm trying it here.

 

I've barely followed Ultimax at all because the original game left me pretty cold after the "new game smell" wore off. I couldn't get into any characters other than Kanji and I'm completely disinterested in the Persona 3 and 4 RPGs. I heard from a friend that there's a new mode in Ultimax that lets you play without autocombos? If true, that would significantly improve my enjoyment of the game.

[heavymetalmixer]

My post got buried in the sticky thread so I'm trying it here.

 

I've barely followed Ultimax at all because the original game left me pretty cold after the "new game smell" wore off. I couldn't get into any characters other than Kanji and I'm completely disinterested in the Persona 3 and 4 RPGs. I heard from a friend that there's a new mode in Ultimax that lets you play without autocombos? If true, that would significantly improve my enjoyment of the game.

 

Autocombos aren't like Stylish in BB, and they're not needed you know?

You do them if you want, and no, there's not way to disable autocombos.

[TAI-X]

Problem is that you still have to go through much of the autocombo sequence for "manual" combos anyway. Sorry if it sounds like a scrubby complaint (not meant as an excuse for sucking though), but it just feels sleazy to me. Even with braindead, basic ABCD magic series combos it at least feels like you're totally in control. I wish the game had three or four normal attack buttons along with the persona buttons so they wouldn't have had to make autocombos mandatory.

[heavymetalmixer]

Problem is that you still have to go through much of the autocombo sequence for "manual" combos anyway. Sorry if it sounds like a scrubby complaint (not meant as an excuse for sucking though), but it just feels sleazy to me. Even with braindead, basic ABCD magic series combos it at least feels like you're totally in control. I wish the game had three or four normal attack buttons along with the persona buttons so they wouldn't have had to make autocombos mandatory.

 

From the videos i've seen until now, the autocombo is only used by a little ammount of characters like Yosuke, because of it's damage, and they only use it sometimes. You should check the Combo threads and you'll see that most of the combos don't use the autocombo.

[D.R.F.]

From the videos i've seen until now, the autocombo is only used by a little ammount of characters like Yosuke, because of it's damage, and they only use it sometimes. You should check the Combo threads and you'll see that most of the combos don't use the autocombo.

Yukari starts a lot of things off of 5A string because its an easier confirm.

[shtkn]

if you've watched videos, you should notice taht autocombos are used, but i really don't htink any hardcore p4u players consider the mechanic scrubby, it's just a simple, flashy, suboptimal combo with a super (and the super isn't exactly free)

[Justice7541]

It's a balance thing. You're not supposed to be able to use the second and third hits outside of combos, otherwise Akihiko would just be the most annoying character on the planet.