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[CP 1.1] Iron Tager Gameplay Discussion

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Are you saying 1.1 Tager is better than 1.0 Tager? Because you sure don't make it seem that way. You're justifying the nerfs saying they're not so bad, but the bottom line is they're still nerfs. The only thing I can see that is positive for Tager is that the top tiers were brought down, but that doesn't make 1.1 Tager stronger than 1.0 Tager. So how is Tager at his strongest right now?? Maybe if his buffs outweighed his nerfs but you didn't even mention a single buff in your post.

 

The nerfs to the top tiers make him stronger relatively, I am having an easier time winning in 1.1 as opposed to 1.0. Simple as that. I especially noticed a big change to my success rate vs Hazama. His damage and meter gain nerfs force him to work harder to win.

 

You can't judge a character's strength based solely on the character itself. A character's strength is relative to the other characters it has to fight. There were a whole lot of damage nerfs across the board but Tager's damage is unchanged outside of 5A/2A confirms, and even those still do the same damage with meter. This makes Tager's damage really stand out now. 

 

Sure, Tager got nerfs. They didn't hurt him as much as the other characters though, so he gained some ground. If you played Hazama in 1.0 and then in 1.1 you will know what I'm talking about.

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Personally, two things annoy me about 1.1 Tager:

 

1) Backdash nerf. There's no justification for it. They wanted to nerf defensive options across the board but conveniently forgot that Tager has no choice but to play defensive a lot of the time.

2) His CA is still the same garbage it was since CT. Seriously, if something is going to cost 50 meter and do no damage, can it at least be reliable for getting characters like Rachel out of my face?

 

As for the 5A nerf... I'm over it. It's still more damage than he got in CS2, and he still gets GF oki if you don't opt for gimmicks. 3.5k meterless off GF 5A was too much reward for too little risk, IMO. You didn't even have to worry about confirming it versus most players, because they'll either backdash, mash reversal, or just get hit.

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Something that just occurred to me after reading Ctrl's post again:

 

There were a whole lot of damage nerfs across the board but Tager's damage is unchanged outside of 5A/2A confirms, and even those still do the same damage with meter. This makes Tager's damage really stand out now.

 

(Emphasis me)

This is a really important distinction. If they had nerfed 5A's P1 instead of its starter type, it would have also affected Tager's meter combos off 5A. Changing only the starter allows him to still take rounds off 5A provided he has the resources for it.

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Personally, two things annoy me about 1.1 Tager:

 

1) Backdash nerf. There's no justification for it. They wanted to nerf defensive options across the board but conveniently forgot that Tager has no choice but to play defensive a lot of the time.

2) His CA is still the same garbage it was since CT. Seriously, if something is going to cost 50 meter and do no damage, can it at least be reliable for getting characters like Rachel out of my face?

 

As for the 5A nerf... I'm over it. It's still more damage than he got in CS2, and he still gets GF oki if you don't opt for gimmicks. 3.5k meterless off GF 5A was too much reward for too little risk, IMO. You didn't even have to worry about confirming it versus most players, because they'll either backdash, mash reversal, or just get hit.

 

1) Agree

 

2) I absolutely love his CA. Perfect tool for me imo lol. They did change it in CP, it forces knockdown now so you instantly get oki when you hit someone with it, it's pretty amazing for Tager.

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Tager's backdash is a bag of dicks.

 

I get hit by nearly everything anytime I try to backdash.  D:

You totally deserve to get mashed on for even thinking you could backdash a slow normal. How DARE you even consider letting Tager have a useable tool.

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2) I absolutely love his CA. Perfect tool for me imo lol. They did change it in CP, it forces knockdown now so you instantly get oki when you hit someone with it, it's pretty amazing for Tager.

 

Isn't it still a 16 frame overhead? That new knockdown sounds nice but I can't even count on it landing half the time. Especially when you consider that people already jump to avoid 720s and it just so happens to avoid CAs at the same time.

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Isn't it still a 16 frame overhead? That new knockdown sounds nice but I can't even count on it landing half the time. Especially when you consider that people already jump to avoid 720s and it just so happens to avoid CAs at the same time.

Overhead no longer

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what's the most you can get from a midscreen raw AC? with SB, OD and 50 meter the most i could get is 4.5k, but im pretty sure that the combo is not optimal

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what's the most you can get from a midscreen raw AC? with SB, OD and 50 meter the most i could get is 4.5k, but im pretty sure that the combo is not optimal

With mag you can do stuff like AC>RC>4D Whiff>5C>6B>etc. Without mag Sparkball into OD MTW or j2C>3C>GF is about all you can do.

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Isn't it still a 16 frame overhead? That new knockdown sounds nice but I can't even count on it landing half the time. Especially when you consider that people already jump to avoid 720s and it just so happens to avoid CAs at the same time.

 

The knockdown is amazing. When you hit them with it they -instantly- emergency roll like 95% of the time and you get a super fast oki setup.

 

Just gotta learn to time it right, it's like bursting at the right time.

 

Landing a CA on everyone else usually just resets neutral but for Tager it actually puts him in control.

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You totally deserve to get mashed on for even thinking you could backdash a slow normal. How DARE you even consider letting Tager have a useable tool.

If your back is to the wall, you can't backdash donkey dick.  I remember doing something so simple as GF - backdash (Inferno Divider whiff) - 360B.  Whoever decided that he needed less invul is an asshole.

 

Used to be that a well-timed backdash could turn the tides very quick.  Now a well-timed back dash just gets you pwnd for free.

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I'm gonna pick pocket Tager back up to mess around with, and I was wondering... Can you TK air 360?

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

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I'm gonna pick pocket Tager back up to mess around with, and I was wondering... Can you TK air 360?

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

 

maybe I suck at tk's, but it seems that the j.360 has height restriction maybe? when i try to tk with 2147896 if i do it way too close to the ground i get a j.C, cant get it consitently with 6321478 tho

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maybe I suck at tk's, but it seems that the j.360 has height restriction maybe? when i try to tk with 2147896 if i do it way too close to the ground i get a j.C, cant get it consitently with 6321478 tho

 

There is no height restriction on it, but you have to let yourself actually get off the ground and Tager's jump startup is pretty big. He doesn't stop movement immediately after so it's possible to do a really weird "I landed before it went active" thing on your way down, just like whiffing aerial Potemkin Buster like that.

 

 

Okay I was curious so I did some testing and I think there's a tiny amount of minimum height, but you really have no need to ever use it that low.

 

Basically the way you input it is a 360 that starts on 7 8 or 9. Don't try to spin the stick, end on a jump, then push the button; that won't work most the time. Be very careful and make sure to give yourself enough time to get off the ground, otherwise you'll do random shit.

 

If you're trying to do the Gadget Flinger thing, I usually have to do that with a super jump.

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TK360C doesn't work low to the ground because it keeps some upwards momentum during the startup, so it doesn't happen as low to the ground as you'd like.

 

If you want to be a fuckshit, low 360C beats most character's backdashes. GF > RC > Jump forward > low 360C beats most character's backdashs and some other options, but it's almost exclusively a mindfuck option. It's somewhat practical against Amane because it beats both 6B and backdash. May have other uses too. I've done a low 360C to beat Hakumen's forward dash once, but that's totally a fluke.

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Found a true Tager fuzzy against tall characters

 

 

The Setup:

Shortened Combo, ie  5A > 5B > 3C > 6A > GF > RC > CT > GF (whiff)

 

Azrael

j.A > j.B > (slight delay) j.C > 5B > 3C > AC (whiff) > 5C > 6B > j.A > j.B > j.C > GP (2893 | 20 meter)
j.A > j.B > (slight delay) j.C > 5B > 3C > AC (whiff) > 5C > 6A > 2C > AC > GF (2596 | 22 meter)

 

Hakumen, Amane

j.B > j.C > j.B > 5C > 6A > 2C > A Sledge > 3C > AC whiff > 5C > 6B > j.2C > 5B > 5C > AC > GF (3720 | 31 meter)

 

Tager

j.B > j.C > j.B > 5C > 6A > 2C > A Sledge > 3C > AC whiff > 5C > 6B > j.2C > 5B > 5C > AC > GF (3720 | 31 meter)

j.B > j.C > j.B > 5B > 5C > 6A > 3C > AC whiff > j.C > j.B > j.C > 2C > GF whiff > 5A > 5B > sj.A > j.C > j.D >GP (3821 | 27 meter)

 

Everyone Else

CH j.B > j.C > 5B > combo

j.B > nothing, cry

 

Short video:

https://vine.co/v/MPFI7Mrr0F5

 

 

The "shortened Combo" is basically anything not pushed to it's absolute limits. Most Tager BnBs into GF work, it seems that 5A combos are the only thing that has to be shortened

 

If they tech late, you get a j.B safejump crossup. If they don't tech at all, you get standard "neutral tech/quick getup/roll" oki, which is good.

 

 

The amount of dumb stuff you can do off of this is super high, not just fuzzies. Some examples:

 

j.GP crossup (works on Litchi, Hakumen, Tager, some others I'm sure, haven't tested. Whoever has a tall crouching hitbox)

Delayed j.B crossup

5A/2B/2A > tickthrow

6B overhead

5B low

j.B Safejump

regular command grab

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Just wanted to stop by and say Tiku has made it to top 8 in EVO.

Thats wonderful. i knew he would come and stomp America. i need to hurry and watch all his matches before i see finals. I would love to see Tiku beat the traitor Galileo in the Grandfinals match lol

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Thats wonderful. i knew he would come and stomp America. i need to hurry and watch all his matches before i see finals. I would love to see Tiku beat the traitor Galileo in the Grandfinals match lol

Speaking of which I am kinda disappointed grandia lost so early

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