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OmegaSeige

Fundamentals, Execution, and Defense

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So I have been playing fighting games for a little over a year now. I played on controller for about 3 months then switched to stick. My first fighting game was P4A and for my first fighter I think it went pretty well. I played Akihiko and got all the way to B+ rank. However I had horrible reaction times and awareness. The only time I would actually do a fatal counter combo is when it was an obvious punish. Other than that I couldn't tell fast enough. I got BBCP when it came out in japan and the game felt different at first but didn't seem too bad. I started to play Jin because I heard he was beginner friendly and a solid character. However, I started to feel like the character just was not fun as my favorite from the beginning. I really liked Litchi but I was told she was too hard for me. I eventually just started to play her and the execution barrier struggle was real. I started to train more and more but her pressure and combos always threw me off. Not to mention I have like the worse awareness. I get so frustrated with my play to the point where I don't think it was worth playing anymore. However I don't want to quit like this.

 

So I guess my real question is HOW DO I GET BETTER!? 

 

What is the more important execution or fundamentals? Should I just play a beginner character like jin, Ragna, or noel because of the difficulty of my favorite character? Also how do I improve my defense I have very bad awareness and get bodied by any throw or overhead. I cant even block Relius overhead most of the time. Any amount of encouragement or advice will help.

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Your execution won't matter without basic fundamentals.

Getting better is a lot like being on a sports team. You analyze film, form strategy, and apply knowledge in practice until it becomes second nature. I'm not going to sugarcoat it, Litchi (tha gawd) is not for everyone. She is a character that you have to sort of click with to become good with. This isn't to discourage you, but to give you some insight as to where the problem may lie.

As far as defense, what I'd advise is to study other chacacters' blockstrings and gatling routes. It's easy to block something if you know the usual path that leads into it. Try not to get down on yourself. Experience is your greatest teacher in fighting games.

P.S. study as many characters as you can. Less wtf moments that way.

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Well, this doesn't seem like a character problem, this just seems like an execution problem. There's no real easy way to get better, but I'll tell you the methods I go by. First off, make yourself extremely comfortable with training mode. It helps execution problems. Right now, you're not so good with hit-confirming. So you'll need to set the training dummy to Block - Random, that way when the training dummy doesn't block you'll have to react and confirm it into a combo. Basically, just do that until you're certain you can get most hit confirms.

 

Next up is defense, again training mode helps here as well. I'd suggest recording the characters you're not so good against (or playing them) and then set the training dummy to record their blockstrings that way you get the feel of how you should block.

 

Finally, you should make it a mission to watch as many gameplay videos of your character, other characters, etc, to get a better understanding of what people do and what works. I don't mean pro videos only, amateur to intermediate players also provide you with useful information because sometimes pros already know what works, but an intermediate player might not. It's a good way to see what works and what doesn't and what other characters can do to punish these things.

 

And another thing, research is your friend. Information wins fighting games. So learn as much as you can and then learn some more. There are a lot of tools out there such as the dustloop wiki, but don't only rely on that, get match-up experience, talk to other players, it'll go a long way.

 

Anyways best of luck!

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I'm in the same place, in some respects. I second everything AchedSphnx said, as it's solid advice.

As far as execution/favourite character struggles ... I'm in the same boat, honestly. I had resigned myself to maining Narukami in P4A but found out I was better with (and vastly prefer playing) Aigis. One thing my trainer reminds me of whenever I doubt my choice of main is that I am improving, but that improvement isn't as easy to see due to the relative difficulty of my character -- while he not only has four years of FG experience (I've got ... a month or so of serious play), he also has an easier time practising hit-confirms and combos whereas I have very different normals, trickier confirms, etc. But I love my character, win and lose, and am willing to stick with her for 3000 matches and hours in training, which isn't true for the two characters I had initially picked as potential mains. It means more work and less immediate gratification but I've made my choice. It sounds like you have as well, so it's worth keeping in mind that maining a character with a high learning curve requires more time and patience. If you're willing to stick with it and love playing Litchi, then don't switch -- just take a deep breath.

Finding a sparring partner might help. I train with someone in P4A (despite the lack of legit online training) and it helps. Awareness is ... just something you're going to have to develop by losing. (My friend once told me he was going to keep DPing me until I learned to stop walking into it. You'd think I'd have picked up on the animation the first 40 times, but nope.) Either find a Relius player or programme the CPU in training to keep throwing that overhead until you can reliably recognise it. More generally -- and I don't know if it applies to you, but for what it's worth -- one thing he pointed out to me is that I lose my composure under pressure; I'm usually very good at keeping track of everything on screen, but once I'm being pressured, I stop watching my opponent and try unsafe shit in a desperate attempt to get out, whereas if I would just focus on blocking, I'd actually land safe reversals. As soon as I reminded myself not to panic, I noticed a huge pick-up in my play. It's not perfect (I still get opened up and eat it) but it's a step in the right direction.

I'd recommend at least doing the basic challenges for your worst MU opponents, as well as feeling them out in training, so that you understand their moves, gatlings, and gain more familiarity with animations. It does help -- frame data isn't necessarily as intuitive as feeling out the recovery your opponent's moves have, and whether it's something where punishing is safe or you're better off blocking.

Execution and fundamentals are equally important but develop at different paces. Execution is being able to perform on command, no drops or botches, and that's ... muscle memory. It's something you drill in training and by going into Versus at increasingly high levels of difficulty. Fundamentals can be worked on in single player (blocking, anti-airs, air-to-air) but it also comes from online play. The AI is repetitive -- humans aren't. But you can use the AI for certain training exercises: go in and block everything you can (you'll lose, but you're trying to stall to time out); put difficulty on Hell and see if you can actually land the combo you learned (you'll lose, but you're looking to find your safe/unsafe entry points); do a set of Versus matches in which you AA every jump-in but don't once jump yourself, and after you've gotten anti-air drills down, repeat but this time try to meet the AI air-to-air to find your viable ATA strategies, entry points, etc. This won't covert to automatic wins in online play, but it'll help you build basic skills, give you some idea of when to meet an air attack with your own versus anti-airing it, etc. Once I learned to stop my trainer from getting free jump-ins, the games radically changed. (Next step: consistently moving from the AA into my own combo.)

I think of it like this: "fundamentals" are a bunch of independent skills I need to slowly raise until they converge and I have a (very thin) base. You'll be developing "fundamentals" your entire FG experience, but the more work you put into the "unfun" bits, the stronger you'll be. I can't IB reliably, but I'm at least blocking; I'm not going air-to-air when I should (or I am when I shouldn't), but I'm able to AA most jump-ins; I can improvise pressure of my own; and I've recently (recently as in "over the past 48 hours") been much better about not panicking. (I still slip up but the overall trend is good.) I don't know how tight your execution is but it's something you just have to work at -- I will spend hours drilling basic commands in training and in Versus because I botch them in actual play, so I need to be stronger there. Input speed will rise the more you play and practise.

And, again, watch videos. I think LordKnight has amazing defence (he handles being pressured like it's no big deal), so even though we play different characters, I study his responses under pressure to see how to improve my own. When I'm looking at videos of other players who use my main, I look for ... well ... tons of shit: What are they doing that I'm not? Should I be doing that? Where are they getting punished? Where are they punishing their opponent? Do they play the character in a way that "clicks" with me or did they lose for mistakes even I can spot? What are they doing at neutral versus various opponents? &c.

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I'm in the same place, in some respects. I second everything AchedSphnx said, as it's solid advice.

As far as execution/favourite character struggles ... I'm in the same boat, honestly. I had resigned myself to maining Narukami in P4A but found out I was better with (and vastly prefer playing) Aigis. One thing my trainer reminds me of whenever I doubt my choice of main is that I am improving, but that improvement isn't as easy to see due to the relative difficulty of my character -- while he not only has four years of FG experience (I've got ... a month or so of serious play), he also has an easier time practising hit-confirms and combos whereas I have very different normals, trickier confirms, etc. But I love my character, win and lose, and am willing to stick with her for 3000 matches and hours in training, which isn't true for the two characters I had initially picked as potential mains. It means more work and less immediate gratification but I've made my choice. It sounds like you have as well, so it's worth keeping in mind that maining a character with a high learning curve requires more time and patience. If you're willing to stick with it and love playing Litchi, then don't switch -- just take a deep breath.

Finding a sparring partner might help. I train with someone in P4A (despite the lack of legit online training) and it helps. Awareness is ... just something you're going to have to develop by losing. (My friend once told me he was going to keep DPing me until I learned to stop walking into it. You'd think I'd have picked up on the animation the first 40 times, but nope.) Either find a Relius player or programme the CPU in training to keep throwing that overhead until you can reliably recognise it. More generally -- and I don't know if it applies to you, but for what it's worth -- one thing he pointed out to me is that I lose my composure under pressure; I'm usually very good at keeping track of everything on screen, but once I'm being pressured, I stop watching my opponent and try unsafe shit in a desperate attempt to get out, whereas if I would just focus on blocking, I'd actually land safe reversals. As soon as I reminded myself not to panic, I noticed a huge pick-up in my play. It's not perfect (I still get opened up and eat it) but it's a step in the right direction.

I'd recommend at least doing the basic challenges for your worst MU opponents, as well as feeling them out in training, so that you understand their moves, gatlings, and gain more familiarity with animations. It does help -- frame data isn't necessarily as intuitive as feeling out the recovery your opponent's moves have, and whether it's something where punishing is safe or you're better off blocking.

Execution and fundamentals are equally important but develop at different paces. Execution is being able to perform on command, no drops or botches, and that's ... muscle memory. It's something you drill in training and by going into Versus at increasingly high levels of difficulty. Fundamentals can be worked on in single player (blocking, anti-airs, air-to-air) but it also comes from online play. The AI is repetitive -- humans aren't. But you can use the AI for certain training exercises: go in and block everything you can (you'll lose, but you're trying to stall to time out); put difficulty on Hell and see if you can actually land the combo you learned (you'll lose, but you're looking to find your safe/unsafe entry points); do a set of Versus matches in which you AA every jump-in but don't once jump yourself, and after you've gotten anti-air drills down, repeat but this time try to meet the AI air-to-air to find your viable ATA strategies, entry points, etc. This won't covert to automatic wins in online play, but it'll help you build basic skills, give you some idea of when to meet an air attack with your own versus anti-airing it, etc. Once I learned to stop my trainer from getting free jump-ins, the games radically changed. (Next step: consistently moving from the AA into my own combo.)

I think of it like this: "fundamentals" are a bunch of independent skills I need to slowly raise until they converge and I have a (very thin) base. You'll be developing "fundamentals" your entire FG experience, but the more work you put into the "unfun" bits, the stronger you'll be. I can't IB reliably, but I'm at least blocking; I'm not going air-to-air when I should (or I am when I shouldn't), but I'm able to AA most jump-ins; I can improvise pressure of my own; and I've recently (recently as in "over the past 48 hours") been much better about not panicking. (I still slip up but the overall trend is good.) I don't know how tight your execution is but it's something you just have to work at -- I will spend hours drilling basic commands in training and in Versus because I botch them in actual play, so I need to be stronger there. Input speed will rise the more you play and practise.

And, again, watch videos. I think LordKnight has amazing defence (he handles being pressured like it's no big deal), so even though we play different characters, I study his responses under pressure to see how to improve my own. When I'm looking at videos of other players who use my main, I look for ... well ... tons of shit: What are they doing that I'm not? Should I be doing that? Where are they getting punished? Where are they punishing their opponent? Do they play the character in a way that "clicks" with me or did they lose for mistakes even I can spot? What are they doing at neutral versus various opponents? &c.

 

Thank it's stories like this that gives me hope that I can improve.

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Well, I think anyone here who's played me could tell you I'm still pretty awful, but I'm glad I could help. :)

When it comes to FGs, you're going to honing your skills for the duration of your time in the community. Which means you're going to lose a lot, but the trick is not looking at win/loss as the sole indicator of improvement. I went 0-15 against my friend yesterday afternoon (did steal a few rounds, though) -- and after most fights, I found myself saying "That wasn't too bad for me." He laughed and pointed out that I have been saying that after almost every match, which is a huge change from a week ago. Last week, I would contemplate not teching and just letting him kill me off sooner because I could not figure out what to do in the match up; this week, I've actually put him on defence and blocked some of his mix-ups, gotten my own pressure going, etc. I'm not winning but I'm definitely improving.

Take joy and achievement where you can find it, not in wins. You're also more likely to do something that'll get you blown up if you get desperate and try to chase a win. One reason I like watching LordKnight's P4A performances so much is because he does not hit buttons when on defence, which helped curb some of my initial mashing tendencies. Match footage is invaluable -- I'd internalised some terrible habits from playing the CPU ("mash like crazy, don't block, spam the attack the AI doesn't know how to deal with") but knowing that it's better to block for what feels like forever than try an unsafe reversal is completely different from seeing top players actually block and deliberately choose when to get out of the corner. It can feel disorienting to play in very different (i.e., better) ways, but sometimes seeing the "right" way is more helpful than just screaming "BLOCK DAMNIT" to yourself. I'll rewatch matches dozens of times, which seems to help with driving the info into my brain for immediate recall during play.

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You build up fundamentals by just playing matches and then reflecting on what you could have done better. When you get hit by something, was there something else you could've done to avoid that? Make a mental note. Research and experiment with different situations to see if some move you hadn't considered is the answer. Actually, defense works the same way. You have to play with a clear presence of mind that deliberately takes action instead of going into a mashing frenzy that only clears after the match is over, only for you to not even remember what happened during it. That's something that's easier to do the more you play and more familiar you become with the game, as you'll start recognizing situations easier that baffled you before and be able to think more clearly.

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