Tigre Report post Posted July 9, 2014 IntroductionWelcome to the Waldstein thread! Please discuss character strategy, combos, match-ups, and other relevant topics here. Please also feel free to post up any questions you may have about the character as well. Pre-Match Character DescriptionHe seethes. To save the will and the life of his master with his stout arms.Accepted the eternal curse to be with his master, obtained the superhuman power.The old soldier lived through destruction and battles, desires for the master underthe silent nights.Until the day he gives up his own life at the battlefield.Waldstein Wiki Page Notable PlayersFusemasterGashi-sanYuubouAkaboshi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thiz Report post Posted July 17, 2014 Here is what I gathered so far. I will only summarize basic stuff, as well as combos that dont require you to be pro. If you are looking for more in-depth stuff and combos that require you to charge, jump and dash a lot, then wikia got you covered. S-Tier Grappler hype!! Normals: 2A is a low jab 5B got a long reach, good anti Air 2C is our knockdown tool and a useful combo filler 66C is great to rush in j.B got fast start-up and has no hitbox directly below Waldstein j.C is chargable and has a huge hitbox Command Normals: 4B creates a shockwave and downs the opponent, can be combo'd into 5A 3C is his Airgrab 6C swings his claws at the opponent, then throws a punch, if the first swing hits, the opponent gets thrown at the wall, the punch after that is an overhead, which can be cancelled via CS Force Function: performed by B+C, projectile, throwlength can be controlled with the stick Specials: 236A/B/EX (Eisen Nägel) is our projectile killer, B version is an overhead, EX version is CS cancellable only on hit 623A/B/C (Wirbelwind) moving forward while swinging claws, A and B version deal the same damage 360A/B/EX (Drehen Durchbohren) command throw, A = short reach, B = long reach, EX = invincible on start-up 214A/B/EX (Verderben) B version graps opponent, EX version has fast start-up and slams the opponent to the other side [4]6A/B/EX (Sturmangriff) rushes in, then grabs opponent, is unblockable, A version super slow tho Infinite Worth: 41236D (Werfen Erschlagen) is a powerful command throw, he first does a groundslam, then a bodyslam Infinite Worth EXS: ABCD (Katastrophe) starts by creating a purple pillar, that if it hits, does 3.5k damage, however very lackluster when used in combos [info:BnBs:] 2A>5B>5C>236A>236C 5B>5C>j.A>j.B>j.6C>4B>360A 2B>5C>214B>3C>[4]6C[/info] [info:Midscreen:] 5A>5B>214B>6C>(Walk)>4B>360A 2A>2B>5B>5C>236A>214C[/info] [info:Corner:] 2B>5B>214B>5C>3C>2A>5B>5C>236A 2B>214A>5A>214B>3C>2A>5B>6C>(Dash)>2C>3C>214C 236B>2A>214B>5C>214B>3C>623C>2C>3C 236B>CS>2B>214A>5A>214B>3C>2A>5B>5C>236A>623C>2C>3C>214C 360C>CS>214B>5C>3C>2A>5B>6C>VO[/info] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thiz Report post Posted July 17, 2014 Video posting galore incoming. Thought I'd rather create a second post to keep things neatly arranged. If there was no player names listed, I just put the character without parenthesis. So if you know their names or can read them, please let me know, that'd be super helpful. If this thread should ever reach page 2, then I will try and keep this post up to date, so everything can be found in one place. If you find double listings (I try to check them all, but I may always have something slip thru my fingers), please let me know, too. VS. Akatsuki - VS. Carmine - Carmine vs. Waldstein - Notsu(Carmine) vs. Watanabe(Waldstein) - Notsu(Carmine) vs. Watanabe(Waldstein VS. Chaos - Watanabe(Waldstein) vs Machida(Chaos) - Chaos vs. Waldstein VS. Eltnum - Fusemaster (Waldstein) vs. Senaru (Eltnum) - Gashi san(Waldstein) vs. Senaru (Eltnum) - Watanabe(Waldstein) vs. Senaru(Eltnum) VS. Gordeau - Gordeau vs. Waldstein - Gordeau vs. Waldstein VS. Hilda - Hilda vs. Waldstein - Watanabe(Waldstein) vs. Hilda - Hilda(welch) vs. Waldstein VS. Hyde - Rion (Hyde) vs. Fusemaster (Waldstein) - Hyde vs. Waldstein - Gashi san(Waldstein) vs. Sugano(Hyde) - Hyde vs. Waldstein - Hyde vs. Waldstein] VS. Linne - Kesuke(Linne) vs Watanabe(Waldstein) - Linne vs. Waldstein VS. Merkava - VS. Orie - Orie vs. Waldstein - Orie vs. Waldstein VS. Seth - Fusemaster(Waldstein) vs. Rion(Seth) VS. Vatista - Vatista vs. Waldstein - Gashi san(Waldstein) vs. Vatista VS. Waldstein - VS. Yuzuriha - Yuzuriha vs. Waldstein - Yuzuriha vs. Waldstein - Yuzuriha vs Waldstein Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HDKirin Report post Posted July 19, 2014 Pre-Match Character Description He seethes. To save the will and the life of his master with his stout arms. Accepted the eternal curse to be with his master, obtained the superhuman power. The old soldier lived through destruction and battles, desires for the master under the silent nights. Until the day he gives up his own life at the battlefield. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hecatom Report post Posted July 24, 2014 I seriously can't believe that i am the only one playing Waldstein, where are the rest of the people? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zankoku Report post Posted July 24, 2014 Are the combos ending in 360A real? It seems to consistently whiff whenever I try it, while 360C works (and I don't think it's letting me cancel into 360B). Messing with various stuff, seems a stable ender is > 5C > 236B > 236C > 3C ( > 214C ) You can adapt this into ground-to-ground confirms 5A > 5B > 214B > 5C > ender (3138/3675) 2A > 5B > 5C > ender (2758/3295) or ground-to-air 5B > 5C > ender (2996/3533) Meterless, I tend to like 4B > [4]6B ender since it's still decent damage along with guaranteed cornering the opponent. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GodPress Report post Posted July 25, 2014 Are the combos ending in 360A real? It seems to consistently whiff whenever I try it, while 360C works (and I don't think it's letting me cancel into 360B). Yes, all enders of 4B>360A work. Most likely doing it too late. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zankoku Report post Posted July 25, 2014 As it turns out, I was doing it too quickly -- he was whiffing the command throw before they managed to hit the ground yet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GodPress Report post Posted July 25, 2014 It is also possible to end on Sturmangriff/godpress (<4>6 a/b/c) instead of 360 if you're looking for corner carry. For example 5A>5B>214B>6C>4B>360A does 2661, with Sturmangriff it does 2649. Something for you to consider especially when confirming from 2A and 5A. Edit: Reading fail, aisight already covered this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zankoku Report post Posted July 25, 2014 Yeah I was using [4]6B/C before because I couldn't figure out why 360A was failing. I think 360A deals more damage than B press, but the benefits of guaranteed corner carry definitely can't be overlooked. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GodPress Report post Posted July 25, 2014 Yeah I was using [4]6B/C before because I couldn't figure out why 360A was failing. I think 360A deals more damage than B press, but the benefits of guaranteed corner carry definitely can't be overlooked. Yup you are correct, just rechecked. Vorpal activated when I did the BnB the first time inflating the press damage. A/B press both do the same damage of 2649 to the 2661 provided by 360A, a 12 damage difference is pretty insignificant. Edit: Just so I don't fill up the thread with my crap, just meterless variations of the 5A>5B Combo with damage values. You can use 2A instead of 5A as well. 5A>5B>214B>6C>4B>[4]6A/B -2649(2911)DMG 5A>5B>214B>6C>4B>360A -2661(2924)DMG 5A>5B>214B>J.B>J.C>J.6C> J.C(Charge)> Dash > 2B >5B > 5C>236A -2782(3056)DMG >3C -2717(2985)DMG 5A>5B>214B>J.B>J.C>J.6C>J.C>J.6C>J.C>J.B>214B -2827(3106)DMG Tried to get something more off of what aisight posted earlier with 5A>5B>214B>5C, the extensions I used and the damage values off of these were: The below combo doesn't seem to work on Eltnum, worked on everyone else I tried though 5A>5B>214B>5C>J.C>J.6C>4B>360A 2792(3154) - The jump normals after 5C need to be delayed as much as possible to allow the opponent to drop for 4B. 360C 3108(3415) 236A 2800(3077) 236C 2964(3257) [4]6A 2857(3139) [4]6C 3089(3395) 5A>5B>214B>5C>J.C>J.6C>J.C>J.B>J.214B 2755/3099 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zankoku Report post Posted July 25, 2014 Mashed out some stuff with 2B starter too, since that seems to be his only real low. UNIVERSAL: 2B > 5B > 214B > j.A > j.B > j.C > land > 5A > 5B > j.C > j.214B -- 2697 damage, 46.27% EXS 2B > 5B > 214B > j.A > j.B > j.C > land > 5A > 5B > 3C > [4]6C -- 3214 damage, 49.63% EXS (before EX) MIDSCREEN: 2B > 5B > 214B > j.A > j.B > j.6C > land > j.A > j.B > j.6C > land > j.C > j.214B -- 2779 damage, 50.54% EXS EDIT: 2B > 5B > 214B > j.A > j.B > j.6C > land > j.C > j.6C > land > j.C > j.214B -- 2869 damage, 50.47% EXS 2B > 5B > 214B > j.A > j.B > j.6C > 4B > [4]6B -- 2767 damage, 47.04% EXS 2B > 5B > 214B > j.A > j.B > j.6C > 3C > [4]6C -- 3146 damage, 44.59% EXS (before EX) 2B > 5B > 214B > 5C > 236B > 236C > 5B > j.B > j.214B -- 3289 damage, 33.46% EXS (before EX) CORNER: 2B > 5B > 214B > 5C > 3C > 2A > 5B > 5C > j.B > j.214B -- 3019 damage, 63.84% EXS 2B > 5B > 214B > 5C > 3C > 2A > 5B > 6C > 66 > 2C > 3C > 214C -- 3693 damage, 85.33% EXS (before EX) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GodPress Report post Posted July 25, 2014 On your midscreen combos you could squeeze out some more damage by doing J.B>J.C>J.6C which will allow you to end on J.C>J.B for example this combo of yours: 2B > 5B > 214B > j.A > j.B > j.6C > land > j.C > j.6C > land > j.C > j.214B -- 2869 damage, 50.47% EXS Can be altered to: 2B > 5B > 214B > J.B > J.C > J.6C > land > J.C > J.6C > land > J.C > J.B > J.214B - 2956/3248 An alternate corner combo too: 2B>214A>5A>214B>5C>6C>2A>5B>6C>J.C>J.B>214.B 3364(3693) >4B 3260(3579) reset opportunity perhaps Also doing the J.C charge combo allows you to do a reset opportunity with 2B>5B>214B>J.B>J.C>J.6C>Land>J.C(charge)>Dash>2B>5B>5C>236A -2909(3127) >J.B reset -2471(2714) Using CS on his 360 you can do the following too 360A/B>CS>214B>J.A>J.B>J.6C>Land>J.C(charge)>Dash>2B>5B>5C>236A -2821 or 3545 if you do it from 360C Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gli Report post Posted July 25, 2014 a-cho UNDER NIGHT IN BIRTH ExeLate 1on1大会 終了後 野試合…: http://youtu.be/iDkn984ENSo At around 54 minutes vs Vatista, is that infinite grab loop still possible in the console version? Chain Shift after grab super into some kind of corner loop setup to time out Vatista and win. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zankoku Report post Posted July 25, 2014 360C > Chain Shift > 5C > 214B > 623C > 6C > 6C > 6C > ... The 6C normally wallbounces, so I'm not sure what exactly sets it up to not do so. I think someone on Twitter mentioned it still works, though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GodPress Report post Posted July 25, 2014 360C > Chain Shift > 5C > 214B > 623C > 6C > 6C > 6C > ... The 6C normally wallbounces, so I'm not sure what exactly sets it up to not do so. I think someone on Twitter mentioned it still works, though. The Waldstein does 360C> CS> Dash B>214A> 623C > 6C I believe. I just tried it, the first 6C doesn't wallbounce but the second 6C did. Edit:I got it to work, it still exists. The timing is easy enough if you get a high enough launch and it doesn't seem to be character specific. This is how I think it works, you need to do the 6C as early as possibly to grab them at the maximum height, at this point I think the hurtbox of the enemy character doesn't collide with the boundary of the walls allowing you to loop it. In some training mode investigation it seems the sweet spot for this to occur is anywhere between 58-68frames after the initial 6C. A potato quality video I recorded displaying it still working. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P17k6_Z7d2U&feature=youtu.be Edit2: You can also get this off of regular 360 too, only requiring 100exs & vorpal to activate it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edollarports Report post Posted July 26, 2014 Yeah, anything into 214B 623C on airborne works in the corner iirc. You can do it from round start with vorpal and 200 exs huehue SUPER potato recording https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQrSY6tzqT4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zankoku Report post Posted July 26, 2014 Testing random command throw into Chain Shift combos! UNIVERSAL: j.214A/B > CS > 236A > 236C > 5B > 5C > j.C > j.214A/B -- 3881 damage 360A/B > CS > 214B > 5C > j.A > j.B > j.C > 3C > [4]6C -- 3327 damage [4]6A/B > CS > 3C > 2A > 5B > 6C > (66) > 2C > 3C > 214C -- 3876 damage 3C > [4]6C > CS > 3C > 2A > 5B > 5C > j.C > j.214B -- 3495 damage 360C > CS > 214B > 5C > j.B > j.6C > (land) > j.C > j.214B -- 3505 damage CORNER: j.214A/B > CS > 214B > 6C > (66) > 2C > 3C > 214C -- 4181 damage 360A/B > CS > 214B > 3C > 2A > 5B > 6C > (66) > 2C > 3C > 214C -- 3439 damage 3C > CS > 214B > 6C > (66) > 2C > 3C > 214C -- 4160 damage 360C > CS > 214B > 3C > 2A > 5B > 5C > j.C > j.214B -- 3607 damage EDIT: Also, here's my current progress on frame data.. http://piratepad.net/ep/pad/view/ro.Yq9oos7K1-k/latest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grim-reaper Report post Posted July 27, 2014 combo video :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5PkNExDAY4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqjL3T2qcFs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hecatom Report post Posted July 27, 2014 Near corner2A>2C jc JB>JC 5A>6C>3C>[4]6C --3027 Damage Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GodPress Report post Posted July 27, 2014 236B Corner combos, should also work with CH 236A instead. 236B>2A>5B>5C>3C>2A>5B>5C>236A = 3252/3573 (236A whiffs if you do the standard 214B combo) 236B>2A>5B>214B>J.B.>J.C>J.6C>land>J.C(Charge)>J.B(reset) = 3255/3415 236B>2A>5B>214B>J.B>J.C>J.6C>land>J.C>J.B>214B = 3440/3780 >214C = 3502/3845 236B>2A>5B>214B>3C>2A>5B>5C>623C>6C = 3709/4075 Dash B DashB>623A>236C>5B>J.B>J.C>J.6C>Land>J.C>J.B>J.214B = 3099/3491 100EXS cost. >J.C(charge)>J.B Reset = 2999/3295 I don't seem to be able to get much more off of the above dash combo, maybe you guys can? Using Veil Off + 200EXS and CS you can do silly things, definitely not too practical. Midscreen 2B>5B>214B>5C>J.C>J.6C>4B>360C>CS>41236D = 5440 2B>5B>214B>J.B>J.C>J.6C>Land>J.C>J.6C>Land>J.C>J.B>J.214C>CS>41236D = 5128 Corner 5C>214A>Dash B>214B>3C>2A>5B>5C>3C>J.C>J.B>j.214C>CS>41236D = 5953 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SonicBoomBrad Report post Posted July 28, 2014 Is there a list of invul frames on specials? Getting pressured seems like a huge issue with Waldstein against characters with fast normals. I can't seem to win a round against a Linne if I happen to get knocked down in the corner. I'm sure this is just due to lack of blocking knowledge, as I only started playing a week ago. But it would also help if I had the option of a reversal. Can anyone help me out? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GodPress Report post Posted July 28, 2014 Is there a list of invul frames on specials? Getting pressured seems like a huge issue with Waldstein against characters with fast normals. I can't seem to win a round against a Linne if I happen to get knocked down in the corner. I'm sure this is just due to lack of blocking knowledge, as I only started playing a week ago. But it would also help if I had the option of a reversal. Can anyone help me out? I might be wrong but I think only 360C and 41236D have startup invul. Wald has a bit of a rough time when he's getting pressured by Elt/Linne if you can't spot the gaps. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SonicBoomBrad Report post Posted July 28, 2014 I might be wrong but I think only 360C and 41236D have startup invul. Wald has a bit of a rough time when he's getting pressured by Elt/Linne if you can't spot the gaps. What do you do with him when you're getting pressured though? How do I counter poke? How do I escape the corner? I can't count the number of matches I've lost due to not being able to escape the corner. Edit: After watching a bunch of Watanabe videos it seems like when he's cornered he'll do a lot of backdash command grabs for the invul frames. He also does a lot of veil cancels to get the pushback and gain real estate. Both of these seem super risky but I suppose they're better than nothing considering his normals are good at pretty much everything but close range. He also does a lot of wake up regular command throw, or read AA grabs. Lots of risks on defense but I suppose that's what a grappler has to do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GodPress Report post Posted July 28, 2014 What do you do with him when you're getting pressured though? How do I counter poke? How do I escape the corner? I can't count the number of matches I've lost due to not being able to escape the corner. Edit: After watching a bunch of Watanabe videos it seems like when he's cornered he'll do a lot of backdash command grabs for the invul frames. He also does a lot of veil cancels to get the pushback and gain real estate. Both of these seem super risky but I suppose they're better than nothing considering his normals are good at pretty much everything but close range. He also does a lot of wake up regular command throw, or read AA grabs. Lots of risks on defense but I suppose that's what a grappler has to do. That sounds about right based on aisights framedata work our quickest normal is 9F startup (http://piratepad.net/V3GMVfNkvM) which means there probably isn't many areas in a lot of the stronger strings to really press and convert which inevitably leaves us in a situation as you described where we have to take more risk to recover space. That said though, it also means we can try make good use of shield during these strings to maximize effectiveness when we do get space. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites