[CS2] Ragna General Discussion

[Kentiah]

Titanium Beast referred to "2b pick up" combos in the Arakune match up thread, can someone point me towards those? I assumed it was something like 3c and then link 2b to 2c or 5c, but you can't jump cancel or anything off the 2c and he just winds up teching. I looked through the combo thread but didn't see anything like that. May have missed it though.

[Zeromus_X]

Try 3C, 2B link, 5C, HJC air combo BELIAL EDGE etc.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Are you guys really creative with your Ragna in combat or just flow chart your way to victory?

This is not a creative game. You get punished for trying to be creative more often than not.

[Yggjrasil]

^ Real talk. This game isn't as lax as GGAC with it's combos.

[mAc Chaos]

This is not a creative game. You get punished for trying to be creative more often than not.

You need to be creative with your mixup though.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

You need to be creative with your mixup though.

True, but more often than not it's out of necessity rather than capability, if you get my drift.

[Beautiful Death]

Alright. About 5D and 6C.

Anyone know why you can't buffer a dash after the first hit of 5D or buffer a jump after the second hit of 6C? Dunno why I wouldn't be able to mash the dash cancel for the first 5D hit like the second one. Or why I can't hit up right after the 6C for a jump LIKE I CAN FOR NORMAL ATTACKS.

Like, was this made to prevent anything?

Or WAS IT JUST FOR THE SAKE OF RANDOMNESS.

Just found it weird.

[FlyingVe]

You can DC the first hit of 5D. It's hard but doable. You can only JC the second hit of 6C which is what's causing your problem.

Also, why on earth are you throwing out 6C against a blocking opponent?

[-Ladon-]

mmm 6C is plenty legit since most people see a standing ragna and react to gauntlet hades once they know his strings

not saying to throw it out a lot but it's safer than other options(sup 2D)

[advancedNoob]

Also, why on earth are you throwing out 6C against a blocking opponent?

5b 2b 6b 2c 6c is one hell of a mix and you can JC or ADC after 6C, so why wouldn't you? The only problem is range, you have to super close to do this string.

[Beautiful Death]

Ah. You misunderstand. My mistake.

I can dash cancel out of 5D(1) and jump out of 6C just fine. I don't have a problem with anything.

I am wondering WHY it is this way. You can mash out the dash cancel after 5D(2) but with 5D(1) you have to time it. You can hit up as soon as 5A, 6A, and 3C connects and get a jump, but not with 6C(2).

Dunno why it's that way. Thought someone would have an idea of WHY it is this way. Cause I have no idea.

And I'm pretty sure it's just fine to use 6C on block occasionally. Anything Kaqn does I'm sure is not completely dumb.

May as well post this here. Some weirdos might find this interesting.

Ragna Block Gatlings

[-Ladon-]

Actually your damage numbers are really off.

2C 3C BK 6C DC 6D j.D (whiff) 6D j.D (whiff) hj8.D delay dj9.D 214C 6DD 5D CS

That combo does 6630.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrBzn41Syik

6417, 62 meter. You can omit the GH at the end and go straight in to 5D if you want to end in CS. Can replace 2C with 5B.

couldn't you do a distance BE for more damage off the enders?

also I'm pretty sure you can get over 7k with a 2c starter and BK, lemme go look at dat lab

[Nakkiel]

couldn't you do a distance BE for more damage off the enders?

Oops, didn't know about that lol.

CS ender does 6743. Combo I posted does 6563. 5659 off of 5B.

Don't think this one was posted yet, I think it does 6777 (at work right now, so can't verify) and requires 50 heat (earned in the combo itself):

FC 2C 3C 22C, (DC) 5B 2C 6C(DC), 2C 5D(DC) 6A(JC) j.C(JC) j.C BE, (DC)5D 22C, (DC)5B 3C 22C (RC dash) 3C 22C.

Easy to do, loads of damage and no BK.

This does 6188 with the RC, 5777 without.

[Spirit Juice]

Not sure what the point is of posting combos that start with 2C that aren't fatal counters.

[-Ladon-]

because 2C on hit is the best prorated move non-fatal?

I mean, 8(5B) vs. 12(2C) startup isn't that major, and there are a lot of things that are punishable, but not enough to be countered.

[Spirit Juice]

Staring a combo from 2C is pretty rare though, which was my point.

[Seifuuku]

6c on block is pretty bad, i think.. most people just don't know that they should just mash out of it to prevent DC/6d reset.. after all you can only jump cancel after the second hit and there is no real penalty to mashing out of it because 6c (1) to 6c (2) is air tight.. maybe a silly situation such as 6c RC to 2c fatal frame trap but that is really situational and gimmicky

[-Ladon-]

but it's the preferred means to start one is the point, to show max damage

every combo could be 5b-3c starters since those are the ones that are most commonly started but they don't maximize damage.

and 2C is a good poke regardless, safe, still gatlings into good options, fatals, I just think the majority of us are used to catching people with 66 5B rather than 66 2C to get used to it though, then again 5B feels like just the universal staple combo starter.

6c on block is pretty bad, i think.. most people just don't know that they should just mash out of it to prevent DC/6d reset.. after all you can only jump cancel after the second hit and there is no real penalty to mashing out of it because 6c (1) to 6c (2) is air tight.. maybe a silly situation such as 6c RC to 2c fatal frame trap but that is really situational and gimmicky

you can always TK GH the 2nd hit to catch mashers, which nets more damage, or just jump out and be safe, since there's rarely scenarios where jump canceling gets you into huge trouble unless you've made it obvious.

it's not a -great- tool, but it's better than other options if you're that deep in the string(2D, grounded gauntlet hades, 6D resets)

I personally use it on average maybe every 2 or 3 matches just to keep people honest

[Beautiful Death]

I can only think of two times in which you would get a 2C.

1. They are trying to jab out of block and you frame trap them. Which would make it a fatal. Which could be 8000 BLOOD KAIN combo! YESSSSS!!!!

2. They are trying to instant block EVERYTHING and because of that get hit due to them trying to time for instant block. Which would make it a regular hit.

Dunno when else you'll get one.

Something else. It seems that many people see Ragna's 6B is slow? How so?

It's like around the same speed as all the other overheads in BlazBlue. Unless I am crazy again. Or does this "slow" factor have to do with the animation. I think it's kind of distinct.

[Seifuuku]

couple of times 2c punish won't get you a fatal but will still get you big damage (5k+)

[-Ladon-]

I can only think of two times in which you would get a 2C.

1. They are trying to jab out of block and you frame trap them. Which would make it a fatal. Which could be 8000 BLOOD KAIN combo! YESSSSS!!!!

2. They are trying to instant block EVERYTHING and because of that get hit due to them trying to time for instant block. Which would make it a regular hit.

Dunno when else you'll get one.

Something else. It seems that many people see Ragna's 6B is slow? How so?

It's like around the same speed as all the other overheads in BlazBlue. Unless I am crazy again. Or does this "slow" factor have to do with the animation. I think it's kind of distinct.

The animation is so telegraphed that if you don't block it you weren't looking for it, seriously, I started playing with people around my scene and by like day 2 the overhead was getting blocked on reaction, that shit is stupid easy to react to.

there's also the fact that it's gatling options are lousy, 2b-6b is probably the most obvious string in the world and even trying to throw in a 3c to catch them blocking won't really work since you have enough frames to just react to the 6B by not holding down.

basically, ragna's best overhead is TK GH right now, which is why if the followup isn't possible his low/high mixup will become absolute garbage and people will have to play even more randomly than they already do to get hits in.

and punishing with 2C when you can't net a fatal like Seifuuku said is exactly why you would use it in a non-fatal situation, it still prorates stupidly good and gets combos in the 5k range meterless, and 6-7k with BK.

[FlyingVe]

I was about to say you can use throws too, but throws in BB are LOL worthy. I think it will make ragna more reliant on punishes. The length and speed of his normals make him a great punish character anyways. Problem is, that relies on the opponent messing up, which isn't something you can count on against good opponents; at least not often enough to win you the match.

Still, I'd hold doom saying until at least after the second Loketest. Right now it's looking like Ragna is over-nerfed, but that's what everyone thought after the first BBCS1 loketest too.

[Beautiful Death]

Well, remember that most overheads on block aren't gatling-able on block. Period. So Ragna is lucky.

And you can go into 6B from 5A, 2A, 6A, and 2B. Guess it's only pretty early on you'll be getting a shot at 6B, but whatever I suppose.

And unless I'm crazy AGAIN, I'm pretty sure both Gauntlet Hades are around the same speed as 6B.

Around 23 frames.

[Seifuuku]

gh is 20f normal, 16f tk

[FlyingVe]

Also, if you gattling out of 5/2A you can be mashed out of your overhead pretty easily. Still good to remember, as most ragna players forget you can 6B after those moves.