[UNIEL] Hyde Matchups Discussion

[Tigre]

Welcome to the Hyde Matchups Thread!

Welcome to the Hyde Matchups Thread! Feel free to ask any questions or share any information you have learned about any specific matchups you've learned in UNIEL!

[Skye]

My quick estimates, of MUs I play a lot. Explanation coming later today, this is just to get the ball rolling.

Vs Linne 5/5 - even

Vs Orie 5.5/4.5 - slight advantage

Vs Carmine 5/5 - even

Vs Hilda 4.5/5.5 - slight disadvantage

Vs Merkava 4/6 - disadvantage

Vs Seth 5/5 - even

Vs Akatsuki 6/4 - advantage

[D.R.F.]

Now we have to explain the whys.

[VR-Raiden]

vs Merkava you can 623B after the flash of any of his EX moves if you're close. There are better punishes for each individually, but if he does one or the other it can screw with you. I doubt reacting to which super it is and punishing accordingly is realistic, so 623B covers all options at least.

vs Gordeau, look for EX command grab animation, it's pretty distinct compared to his others, and punish with assault > air orb. Seems like strongest punish that's just one input to do on reaction (6D).

[Fistmaster049]

My quick estimates, of MUs I play a lot. Explanation coming later today, this is just to get the ball rolling.

Vs Linne 5/5 - even

Vs Orie 5.5/4.5 - slight advantage

Vs Carmine 5/5 - even

Vs Hilda 4.5/5.5 - slight disadvantage

Vs Merkava 4/6 - disadvantage

Vs Seth 5/5 - even

Vs Akatsuki 6/4 - advantage

If I were to add to this with more (as I agree with most of these)

 

Vs Vatista 4/6 - disadvantage

Vs Chaos  6/4 - advantage

Vs Waldstein 4.5/5.5 - slight disadvantage

Vs Yuzu 4.5/5.5 - slight disadvantage

Vs Gordeau 4.5/5.5 - slight disadvantage

[TheYukianesa-01]

How exactly does one get in against Merkava? Is just scooting forward and blocking the only option?

[Zeromus_X]

Yeah, unfortunately you have to just be patient and kind of inch forward little by little. Start of the round even 22A gets stuffed by his 5A iirc. ;( Shield 214A and fireballs when you can to get GRD. It is frustrating, but trying to zone with fireballs or pillars gets punished every time by his 214A on reaction. The only exception is if you block a 214A from close range or the absolute far edge of the screen; you can throw a "reversal" fireball  after blocking 214A and CH the startup of another 214A. But from midrange they just get bodied every time.

 

Occasionally try to approach from the air with assault to make them guess how you'll approach. 3C is decent if they just want to fly around in the air but Merkava can actually dodge it it by flying at the very top of the screen. Occasional B DP anti-air is good as well; don't let them just do whatever. Watch out for random flight dive in neutral, be prepared to block high and punish. If you have meter and they're flying around the air at fullscreen, the occasional 22C is nice to throw out to force them to move or block the flame wave, letting you get in (if he's on the ground, don't bother since...you guessed it, 214A).

 

Once you're in, go ham and don't let them go. Merkava is free to TK Lotus oki (his EX reversals should always at least trade to it).

[Zouf]

Merkava looks like an impossible matchup to me.

 

There are a bunch of really frustrating matchups in this game.

[Zouf]

We can punish his 236C by shielding one of the last hit and 214C reversal.

 

But it's super hard to do. 2A can punish too but converting it into a combo can be quite hard.

 

It's better to DP after the flash, but since it's a 20f freeze, it can be difficult too.

 

This move is highly retarded anyway.

[Skye]

My quick estimates, of MUs I play a lot. Explanation coming later today, this is just to get the ball rolling.

Vs Linne 5/5 - even

Vs Orie 5.5/4.5 - slight advantage

Vs Carmine 5/5 - even

Vs Hilda 4.5/5.5 - slight disadvantage

Vs Merkava 4/6 - disadvantage

Vs Seth 5/5 - even

Vs Akatsuki 6/4 - advantage

Explanation time! Sorry I took so long, I rarely on an actual computer, and doing this stuff on the phone is dreary.

 

Vs Linne 5/5 even

Linne wins in neutral, Hyde wins at oki. Her crouching hurtbox makes approaching her difficult from the air and her crouch normals makes it hard to approach from the ground. Kuuga > Orbiter. Shadow Scare <= Kuuga. Dark Lotus is amazing this this MU.

 

Vs Orie 5.5/4.5 - slight advantage

Orie not having a DP makes this fun for Hyde. Their oki is about even. Orie's AA game is the reason this isn't 6/4 Hyde.

 

Vs Carmine 5/5 - even

Statement redacted, this MU feels more in Carmine's favor so moreso 4.5/5.5 Slight Disadvantage. His neutral, pressure and oki is all insane. Don't let him get in his zone. Oh God please don't let him. His defense is shit so once Hyde starts his turn, it's hard to end it.

Vs Hilda 4.5/5.5 - slight disadvantage

Her zoning is good, Hyde loses the fireball game outright, keep her close, mid range, 22a works wonders to help you get in. Be patient, inch your way in and wreck her shit in. Once you're in, you should stay in, but Hilda is great at keeping you out.

Vs Merkava 4/6 - disadvantage

This might be Hyde's worst MU imo, the neutral game is one big rock paper scissor kamehameha bout, except Hyde doesn't have the fourth option. He has an answer to almost everything Merk does, but Merkava has options to keep Hyde guessing. Merkava can play like a minimalist. His backdash and abare is good, so running oki is hard midscreen.

 

Vs Seth 5/5 - even

I can't stand Seth's design, here is a game that advertises ground neutral and combat and here's Seth practically flying without risk. His set play and neutral is pretty powerful, but he is paper.

 

Vs Akatsuki 6/4 - advantage

They're about even in the fireball game. But Akatsuki has no movement, Hyde can stay away from him and get in when he wants. Akatsuki needs godlike neutral to stand a chance, otherwise, it's fucked.

 

I agree with FistMaster on the Vatista and Gordeau MUs, especially Vatista, fuck that hoe.

[Zouf]

Can't agree with Linne MU. It's 5.5 for Linne at the very least.

 

As you said, she can poke us with her 2B/2C at great range, convert it into a huge combo with no risk at all. We don't have an answer to those pokes. Same with Kuuga, only 41236C will beat it.

 

She has a great DP and a counter attack that can ruin our okizeme game. And the roll will easily punish any fireball thrown at a bad distance.

 

And finally, she can bait any anti air we throw at her with her double jump / air kuuga.

[Skye]

Her dp isn't that good, you can cross it up with dash c. You can jump over it even in the corner and it trades with j.236x at times.

I think that if you're aware of her options and respect it when and where you can, be patient, then Hyde can seize the advantage. Her reversal options don't scare me to the point where I don't feel like I can run oki.

I know the game is still new and we have plenty of time to learn MUs, but MI had the pleasure of having 4 Linne players. I grind this MU without even trying to.

[Tenryuga]

I also don't think Linne is better in neutral than Hyde. Hyde's zoning capability is strong IMO especially when the opponent has no answer to it. 22 series, orbiter, early orbiter detonate, great normals for footsies. Hyde can fight Linne at a longer range than Linne can fight Hyde. Linne becomes more threatening when she is in kuuga range I'd say. I think the MU is 5-5, especially because I think our oki is better than hers as well as our damage.

 

Maybe you guys can explain what you think makes her neutral better to help me understand?

[Zeromus_X]

Linne definitely feels like it's somewhat disadvantageous (nowhere near as bad as Merkava matchup, but she is a gorilla for sure). She is pretty much like Hyde, but better. With her double jump, divekick, and air fireball, it feels like she has little to respect in the neutral game. It feels like a big risk to attempt to call any of her stuff out. Once you get her knocked down, Hyde's oki is nice but I feel like Linne will obtain that situation more often then we will. And when she does you just have to kind of block her annoying rebeat/shanks/air fireball pressure for days, where she can keep resetting pressure from a safe range where none of your normals or DP will hit. I have more fun fighting Gordeau than Linne lol.

[Tenryuga]

I see. Thanks for explaining it.

[Zouf]

To me a good neutral is the capability to break your opponent attacks easily by throwing moves.

 

Hyde's neutral isn't so good compared to some others characters (lets not talk about merkava here)

 

For example, Linne 2C has a huge range, is a low, and can combo out of it pretty easily. Hyde can't so anything against it, he has no move that reaches this far and allow him to poke at such a distance. 2C, if spaced well, will win against every normal moves we have.

 

Hyde's special moves are ok, but it feels like they are all lacking something to make them better than others. 

 

Linne air kuuga has almost no weakness. You can't jump over it, it's + on guard, it's fast, has a decent range and she can combo if it hits. Do we have a move that combine all these factors? Hardly.

[Skye]

Neutral is the ability to control the stage with movement and attacks, the ability to approach or retreat using your tools vs your opponent's.

That said you just have to pick your moments, stay out of Kuuga range if at all possible. Don't be a sitting duck. It just takes patience, this isn't an air dasher, so sometimes you need to incorporate some old fashioned SF esque neutral. Use fireballs with purpose, don't let her in, keep your distance, wait for your time.

[Zouf]

Vatista :

 

if she runs away and play the timer, you are in a very bad position. Better not let her go if you grab her.

 

J.236B on corner will make her DP whiff > free punish. Abuse it, she has no response to it.

 

Her j.C > [8]2B can be punished with 2a (maybe 6B?) if the last hit is shielded

[Skye]

She also can't charge inputs if she's charging grd.

[WintySoSolo]

22C at round start(for later rounds) is pretty strong against zoners since they have to jump over it otherwise they eat it(either hit or block)

generally beneficial if it trades

idk how to play this game

[Zouf]

Just autopilot blockstrings that can lead into combos and you'll win most of your matches.

 

And 623B reversals. Works against everyone

[Skye]

Don't listen to this guy.

MU analysis goes off the assumption that both players are of equal skill, so they are smart enough to block the dime a dozen blockstrings and bait dps. If you're fighting someone who knows how to fight Hyde, then you have to get creative.

In other news, who here has Nanase exp? This MU feels dumb, her 2b feels almost as bad as Linne's so the mid range game is suffering.

[Zouf]

I was half joking, chill out.

 

Hyde's pressure is good but his lack of mixup is highly disturbing. Obviously you need to be creative.

 

No idea about Nanase, she doesn't look too strong. All I know is that our 623B beats her 623C (tested and approved)

 

Anyway, I don't know how to play against Hilda. I just can't get in. I know all the tech there is to know against her but guarding for so long is just so frustrating. It feels like we must take huge risk when she can autopilot her dumb blockstring forever like a monkey.

 

Fuck this dumb character, my worst matchup.

[WintySoSolo]

hilda matchup is kill.

if you get in you can be really mean to her.

doing so is super hard. Not as hard as it could be, but it's hard.

generally if you force a 22B it will always be in your favor but I actually don't know when it's possible to do that, or even just 22B her out of something. Depends on what she's doing and despite about 40% of my matches being against hilda I'm still not entirely sure where her gaps are.

[Hyde]

Alright guys so after playing quite a few games and really getting familiar with Hyde I have been noticing I'm having a lot of trouble with characters like Eltnum and Merkava. Especially that last one. He flys over everything and out right doesn't have to play neutral, how does Hyde deal with that? His reversal super is plus on block, he can make his dive safe and even give it frame advantage by doing a normal and even in the corner cause Hyde's pressure eventually does have to end he fly out. Any tips?

We've both looked into the abyss, but when it looked back...you blinked