[UNIEL] Gordeau Matchups Discussion

[Tigre]

Welcome to the Gordeau Matchups Thread!

Welcome to the Gordeau Matchups Thread! Feel free to ask any questions or share any information you have learned about any specific matchups you've learned in UNIEL!

[Fatalis]

I had some trouble fighting a good Orie on netplay today.

 

It seems she can punish a lot of whiffs on our part, and even walking forward can be hard because she can space herself well with her divine thrusts.

 

Anybody have any tips/pointers?

[Reioumu]

fyi, Gordeau 2C meaty trades with Merkava's 236C with advantage. :D

[_Sey]

fyi, Gordeau 2C meaty trades with Merkava's 236C with advantage. :D

 

Wow, this just made my day, I finally got to play against a good Merkava just to realize how stupid/difficult to punish that super was unless I had meter stocked.

 

How about dealing with his flight?

623C is the go-to option if we have meter, but without any it seems like Gordeau can't really do much about it unless it's something stupid like a corner-to-corner flight, in that case 623B works just fine.

So far I think the only feasible option is a reactionary 3C to slide under his flight resetting to neutral, which isn't really that good of an option but it's still x100 times better than letting him get in for free.

I guess dash up 2C could work too but it also feels like the best way to end up getting hit by an early flight or a fireball.

 

EDIT: welp, I should have tested low flight too.

3C loses to low flight but 623B reaches him which makes for an easier situation to deal with, 214B seems unreliable vs. both versions of his flight

[illness690]

What can Gordeau do vs Linne? It's hard to keep her off of me.

[lofo]

I had some trouble fighting a good Orie on netplay today.

 

It seems she can punish a lot of whiffs on our part, and even walking forward can be hard because she can space herself well with her divine thrusts.

 

Anybody have any tips/pointers?

I had a bit of trouble with this at first, but the only trick to it is to be patient. She needs to space her divine thrusts properly and even then she's at frame disadvantage on block so you can space yourself nicely or, if you want to be bold, rush in. I feel Gordeau is favoured in the long-range footsies game because his B&Bs off 5C and Mortal Slide do better damage than Divine Thrusts, so with that in mind you can afford to take all the time you need.

 

You're right that whiffing is Very Bad against her, so work hard at not doing that.

[jo-p]

Pros/cons vs carmine?

[susano]

I am curious about the Waldstein matchup. I fought a really good one and I was like 'wtf is going on?!'. We went toe to toe but still...what to do...?_?

 

Against Carmine, I guess you don't let him start pressuring you to death? It's like projectile, projectile, projectile...clueless about this one.

 

Also wondering about everyone else except Gordeau mirrors. Those mirrors silly. o_o

[Orrax]

I'm not that great at this game, but here's my impressions of a few match-ups that have been mentioned here or in the other thread. I'd very much like to hear other people's opinions.

 

Vs. Waldstein is weird, but you can outrange him with Mortal Slide. Once you have meter or CS, max range B grim reaper seems pretty annoying for him to deal with, since you can anticipate and punish approaches. His jump ins are crazy though -- the only AA I usually have success with is ex reaper. I've found assimation to be really strong in this matchup because of its throw invulnerability, so it tends to beat Waldstein's own command grab. Basically, I've had the most success in this matchup by backing off and zoning with mortal slide and reaper, and then only moving in once I've scored a hit. 3C seems like a strong neutral tool, but it gives Waldstein advantage if he blocks it. I think this match is even.

 

Vs. Carmine has some of the safest oki in the game, and his pressure is fantastic. The only way I've really found to deal with it is patient blocking, which should win the GRD battle, and then chain shift --> see what he did and maybe reversal. He dies really fast once you catch him, though, so don't let him escape. His command grab reversal has some invulnerability, but it's a throw so your own command grab should win. His other reversal isn't, as far as I know, a proper reversal in terms of invulnerability, but it's fast and gets him out of a lot of situations. A true meaty should beat it, but I haven't really tested. I think Gordeau has the advantage in this match.

 

Vs. Linne, I'm not sure. Keeping her out is definitely essential, and I usually find Mortal Slide good for this. Try to stay just outside of Kuuga range but just inside Mortal Slide range. I've seen a lot of Linne players try to run in after blocking Mortal Slide, so doing B reaper afterward can catch approaches, but try to have either CS or meter to make it safe. If she gets in, you have to play patient. Her mixup is not strong unless you're online, so it's possible to block for a while and create an opening with either shield or chain shift, or both. 2C seems like a pretty good anti-air in this match, but be wary of Kuuga. Again, I think this is in Gordeau's favor.

 

Vs. Orie is a battle of momentum. Her lunge attack is always minus, but if it's spaced properly it can be hard or even impossible to punish. 3C can beat her lunge, but I haven't been able to do it consistently. 2C is again a good anti-air, and can even work as a poke since the first hit is pretty quick. Her hop kick move is a good frame trap, but it's minus on block. Her overhead isn't that fast, but it can be hard to see. Her super that keeps you blocking for a while has a long start up, so it's possible to dash through it sometimes. She also doesn't have a reversal without meter, so she can really struggle with Gordeau's oki. I've had a lot of success with 66C oki. I think this is probably a slight advantage for Gordeau.

 

Vs. Hilda requires patience. Once you're in, she's in trouble, but she can make it hard to get there. Her pressure seems good, but it's not that hard to just block and shield and get GRD until you've got CS -> EX Reaper. Know where her gaps are, CS them, and see what she did. If she hit a button, EX Reaper. If she sets out that orb that shoots a bunch of arrows, it's probably not a good idea to mess with it. Sometimes you can run past it, but most of the time in my experience the best thing to do is shield block it and get some GRD. A lot of Hildas like to do dive kick to avoid Gordeau's command grab -- use frame traps to beat it (like 5A 5B slight delay 5C xx Mortal Slide or something). Her only reversal option, iirc, is Veil Off, so be sure to watch for it if she's got meter. Advantage Gordeau.

 

Vs. Yuzuriha is another patience battle. She's got range, but not a lot else. Be patient at range, try to win the GRD war for CS, and wait for a chance to move in. Once you're in, she dies pretty fast. I'm pretty sure her counter can be thrown, so command grab is very useful in this match. Her reversal options are pretty bad, but still be careful when she has meter. Advantage Gordeau.

 

Vs. Vatista is yet another patience fight. Her zoning is really good -- you won't win a zoning war. That said, you can still catch her out of stuff with Mortal Slide and Grim Reaper. If she sets a crystal, it's possible to out-range the explosion with Mortal Slide. You can also slide under her slow, mid-height orb projectile on reaction. Once you get in, her flash kick is very strong, but also very easy to punish if it's baited. If you have meter/CS, you may want to back off out of flash kick range and instead rely on Mortal Slide and Grim Reaper shenanigans to give you some block stun to work with. I usually bait a bit more against Vatista than against most other characters. I think this match-up might be even.

 

Vs. Gordeau, what do I do? He has reaper and a command grab and a slide attack.

[susano]

Linne has been giving me problems as of late online....well the decent ones that is. Its like she ninja rolls through my legs and goes completely nuts. I need to get over my fear of whiffing stuff with Gordeau. My hesitation is my downfall.

[jinxhand]

For vs Linne, when she's up close I've been patiently waiting for those overhead/throw mixups and open opportunities to use 2B > 5C into whatever combo (typically BnB). At a distance, I've been managing to abuse that 5C > 5A and reacting to whatever Linne does afterwards, especially if they jump in at a specific range--- a well timed 214B works wonders!!! Granted, this Linne player is equally new, but he's pretty decent so far, especially when it comes to coming up with mixups (he plays Noel and Ibuki respectively)...

 

Sidebar (sorta): I'm working on figuring out air moves/specials 214B move beats out right now...

[jo-p]

What's the answer to 66B > 22A pressure?

[madigawadesperate]

What's the answer to 66B > 22A pressure?

 

jump back and get hit with 66c(i'm sure you mean the shoulder charge)

you'll get knocked down slightly enough  that the 22a whiffs completely 

 

or you if have a dp or something that works too 

[lofo]

jump back and get hit with 66c(i'm sure you mean the shoulder charge)

you'll get knocked down slightly enough  that the 22a whiffs completely 

 

or you if have a dp or something that works too 

The pressure string is normally used in the corner where getting hit with 66C means you get comboed by 22A. I get the impression from their avatar that jo-p plays Carmine, so no DP to speak of.

 

I've never been able to make that string tight enough to beat just jab mashing though. I'm not sure if it's impossible or I just do it wrong or what.

[Sashi]

It's not really beatable. 66C 236A, 66C 22A, 66C gold 214A, 66C delay 214A. It's pretty much a guessing game (that's extremely in Gordeau's favor) without a reversal. Even with a reversal, he can just 66C and stop it there.

 

EDIT: Maybe ExBloodRain?

[madigawadesperate]

I get the impression from their avatar that jo-p plays Carmine, so no DP to speak of.

 

 

 

Carmine's answer is literally ex. grab if they do play them, so if he does stop right there he has to jump back during the grab animation also and i think he can chain shift??????

 

 

I've never been able to make that string tight enough to beat just jab mashing though. I'm not sure if it's impossible or I just do it wrong or what.

 

I forget if i ever jab mashed you out if because every time you've done that string to me i got hit with the shoulder and then did a ground tech making 22a whiff

[Sashi]

I don't think ExGrab will work 'cause Gordeau 214s beat all other throws and 66C delay 214A is a common option. Like Gordeau 214As to beat long range Wald 360C on reaction and grabs him out of it.

[susano]

Still confuzzled about Waldstein matchup. I fought SHINE in ranked and managed to win one match with zoning, then the other two was like...um...okay? The minute he starts jumping...it's like...wtf do I do?!

[susano]

Also, need help against spider kid. I know MS and GR blows up webs but getting near him is annoying. Don't have much experience fighting him either.

[mAceOfHearts]

You can probably GR him out of his Rekka->Web pressure string, which should down his pressure hella fast.

As for actually catching him, I got nothing. Just a matter of patience, I guess.

[Big Ben]

Also, need help against spider kid. I know MS and GR blows up webs but getting near him is annoying. Don't have much experience fighting him either.

Webs don't spring instantly when set. The floor web is even worse, you can literally jump into it and jump back out. Rekka > Web pressure reset is very mashable, 2C works if it's 2 rekkas into C web or somesuch variation. Reaper is also your friend because he really wants to be in the air to set webs and such. Also when it's your turn 66C oki is god since he has absolutely no reversal at all except VO/pillar. Just block patiently since he has no actual mixup, he has to take a risk to reset pressure at some point or it's your turn again.

 

Also Mortal Slide.

[jo-p]

Double post >_<

[jo-p]

Carmine's answer is literally ex. grab if they do play them, so if he does stop right there he has to jump back during the grab animation also and i think he can chain shift??????

I'm salty as ever because I ran into a gordeau on ranked and as soon as the match started, he shouldered into 22b me for litteraly 40 game seconds. Shield didn't stop him, jabbing isnt an option as it just gives you a free CH confirm. That trap is so anti carmine its insane

[Dusk Thanatos]

you can run out of web set on reaction

 

it's really slow

[madigawadesperate]

I'm salty as ever because I ran into a gordeau on ranked and as soon as the match started, he shouldered into 22b me for litteraly 40 game seconds. Shield didn't stop him, jabbing isnt an option as it just gives you a free CH confirm. That trap is so anti carmine its insane

 

Do what i do just jump back at the shoulder charge, 22a will whiff cause trust me carmine has better defensive option then hilda(which is like 2 more but w/e)